Chicken vs Egg

Comments

• brown567@sh.itjust.works ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  The compression artifacts (from converting B/W line art to jpg) being printed on the page have given me a new pet peeve

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  • androogee@midwest.social ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Now imagine them being engraved into stone or steel by machine. Turned into literal artifacts for future generations to ponder over.

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    • Speculater@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      “The intentional grey diamonds, you see this was a highly advanced society capable of high definition videos and images, represents a loving fealty to that which is complete or known. The imperfections in the art represent an acknowledgement of their societal short falls. This will be on the exam by the way.”

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  • LillyPip@lemmy.ca ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Jpg for photos, png for everything else.

    It’s an easy rule of thumb, it hurts that 20 years of repeating it seems to have had zero effect.

    Maybe this helps: Jpg fucks up your image, and png doesn’t.

    Or: jpg is lossy, png is lossless.

    Or: It’s better to save photos as png than cartoons as jpg.

    Seriously, I hope some of this breaks through because deep fried images are so fucking unnecessary.

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    • LostXOR@fedia.io ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      I hear WebP can often offer much better compression than PNG in lossless mode so that could be an alternative.

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    • nossaquesapao@lemmy.eco.br ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Are there any downsides to saving photos as pngs?

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  • PrimeMinisterKeyes@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    We have explosive

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  • chetradley@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    John Warnock is rolling in his grave right now.

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• LillyPip@lemmy.ca ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  The chicken vs egg question has never been about chronology or science.

  It’s been about religion vs science.

  Science says the egg came first: a chicken laid an egg that was nearly imperceptibly not a chicken, so the egg was a new thing. Then it hatched and one of its descendants laid an egg that was almost imperceptibly not a not-a-chicken. Repeat ad nauseum. That’s how evolution works, with the egg coming first.

  Religion says a god poofed a chicken into existence.

  That’s the chicken vs egg thing. It’s not a puzzle at all, it’s just science vs religion.

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  • srecko@lemm.ee ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    You can interpret it that way now but that’s not the original meanig.

    en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_or_the_egg

    I understand and respect where you are coming from but i prefer not to rewrite history while arguing about ideas.

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    • AFKBRBChocolate@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Yes, thank you, you’re exactly right. The person you’re responding to is correct that it’s come to have science vs religion overtones, but that’s not what the expression meant to people for ages and ages.

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    • LillyPip@lemmy.ca ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      You’re right, I shouldn’t have said ‘never’. It was a paradox in ancient history, but at least in my lifetime, I’ve read it as basically solved. That may be a relatively recent stance (since 100-200 years ago), but it doesn’t seem useful to continue presenting it as a paradox at this point.

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  • dharmacurious@slrpnk.net ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    I’ve always interpreted it as which came first, the chicken or the chicken egg?

    But I’d just like to point out not all religions have that view of creationism vs evolution, and even within Christianity it’s really only your super conservative, and very loud, fundamentalists. Catholicism doesn’t have an official stance on evolution, iirc, the Episcopal church in the USA is fully supportive of evolution, as are most mainline Christians. Not to detract from your point or anything, I just don’t like seeing all religious people, or all Christians, lumped together with some of the worst examples of religiosity that the US has to offer.

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    • InternetPerson@lemmings.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Religion is usually bad, so I don’t have an issue lumping them all together.

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    • NeatNit@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      I’ve always interpreted it as which came first, the chicken or the chicken egg?

      I agree. And this boils down to how you define ‘chicken egg’. If the definition is “egg laid by a chicken”, then the chicken had to have come first. If it’s “egg that hatches a chick” (which will grow into a chicken), then the egg must have come first. But this ignores the pretty huge problem of picking a precise point on the evolutionary timeline where a non-chicken gave birth to a chicken. There isn’t going to be such a clearly-defined point.

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  • pyre@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    literally no one in the world means that when they talk about chicken vs egg

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    • LillyPip@lemmy.ca ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      It made Fox News in 2015.

      A biology paper that same year..

      Religios people seem to care.

      More religious people care

      Biologists have been talking about it.

      BBC Science covered it.

      I didn’t pull this out of my arse.

      And re: that citation you asked for:

      God created mature birds with the ability to reproduce. So the bird was first, ready to lay eggs.

      — Answers In Genesis

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  • 01101000_01101001@mander.xyz ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    This is by far the most correct answer to the chicken and egg question.

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    • Jako301@feddit.de ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Not really, it still doesn’t answer the question.

      Is the first chicken egg the one the chicken hatched from or the first egg a chicken laid.

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  • Iron_Lynx@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    I think there are two valid scientific/philosophical answers without taking religion into it, based on one question:

    Are we specifically talking a chicken egg, or the concept of an egg?

    In the former case, eggshells contain compounds that cannot exist in nature, and must come from a creature. a chicken egg cannot exist without a chicken before it, thus the chicken came first.

    In the latter case, various evolutionary splits happened between animals evolving egg developing capability and some animals evolving into chickens. From this we can say that the egg came before the chicken.

    Worst case, this solved exactly nothing. Best case, it can be an exercise in reasoning.

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• lowleveldata@programming.dev ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  At which point does an egg of non-chicken become an egg of chicken?

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  • rockerface@lemm.ee ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Chickenness is a spectrum, not a binary

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    • DumbAceDragon@sh.itjust.works ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Is archeopteryx a chicken?

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    • dQw4w9WgXcQ@lemm.ee ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      That’s quite controversial.

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  • Rivalarrival@lemmy.today ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Is a “chicken egg” an egg laid by a chicken, or an egg that will hatch into a chicken?

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    • PapaStevesy@midwest.social ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      It’s an egg that will hatch into a chicken, since the “first” chicken must have hatched out of an egg that was laid and fertilized by two “non-chickens” whose DNA combined together to make a full-blown chicken. Of course it wasn’t actually just one egg, but really, no matter how you think about it, the egg came first.

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    • BassTurd@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      The former, otherwise it would be “chicken’s egg”.

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    • candybrie@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      I think it’s an egg laid by a chicken. Unfertilized eggs laid by chickens that will never become chickens are still chicken eggs.

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    • Sadbutdru@sopuli.xyz ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      I feel like my comment in another thread is even more relevant here:

      I have no direct knowledge about that, but if we take the analogy of the egg (shell, albumen and yolk sack) being the life-support system of the embryo during gestation, in humans the placenta would be a big part of that, and exactly whose body it is part of its not simple (from what I remember both mother and child contribute cells, and the ‘plan’ for building it comes from the father’s genes). So maybe for chickens it could be ambiguous whether the shell ‘belongs’ to the laying generation or the hatching one. Seems like mostly a human taxonomy distinction to make anyway, obviously it’s in between the two, but we like to draw the line somewhere.

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  • Lemminary@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    When first chicken lay egg, duh!

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    • manucode@infosec.pub ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Unless you define a chicken egg as an egg of which a chicken is born (or of which a chicken could be born)

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  • aulin@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Doesn’t matter as it’s not a stated in the question. It just needs to be an egg.

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  • Rhaedas@fedia.io ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Wherever humans draw the line. The meme uses the assumption that there is a clear change from earlier species to later descendants, when it reality it is a continuous change of many characteristics each time an individual reproduces and spreads their genetics. It's the flaw of the missing link argument.

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  • underwire212@lemm.ee ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    When genetic mutation happened between non-chicken and its egg to create real chicken

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• OldWoodFrame@lemm.ee ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  I don’t like this because it’s not addressing the actual saying. Obviously the saying is about chicken eggs specifically.

  But I’ve always felt obviously the egg came first. The first chicken was born in an egg, so the egg came first. That egg could have been produced from a creature with a mutation which caused it to produce the first chicken egg when it is not itself the exact same species.

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  • tor@poeng.link ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    [deleted]

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    • MIDItheKID@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Image

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    • Guy_Fieris_Hair@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      The newly classified creature didn’t mutate as soon as it hatched, it was a chicken inside the egg the whole time.

      Is it the mom’s egg or the chicken’s egg I guess is the argument you are making. I call it the chicken’s egg. So the egg came first.

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  • milicent_bystandr@lemm.ee ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Ah, but when that line of tiny change is so arbitrary… Is it a true chicken until it grows up and fulfils its destiny? Is it a chicken based purely on its genetic code, so the egg whence it hatched is a chicken egg; or is it truly a chicken when it becomes a chicken… meh, I write this far and find I still agree with you: even in that case the egg it hatched from becomes a chicken egg by virtue of the chicken it grew into.

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    • bob_lemon@feddit.de ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      In other words, the question becomes: “Is an egg defined by the creature that laid it, or the creature that will hatch from it?”

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  • srecko@lemm.ee ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    It’s somehiw obvious now, but the question appeared 25 centuries ago when it wasn’t even remotely clear what was the answer.

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  • Holzkohlen@feddit.de ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    But I think it’s not about chicken at all. People just don’t know which creature on earth laid the first egg, so the chicken is just a stand-in. As chicken are the species we most associate with eggs for obvious reasons. What came first: the first egg or the first egg-laying creature? Has to be the egg-laying creature, but then how did that get born?

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  • dependencyinjection@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    I believe this is correct as I read in a book somewhere that it was a kind of proto-chicken if you will, that laid an egg of which came a the first chicken.

    The more interesting question is how long did it take for the first BBQ Chicken.

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    • OldWoodFrame@lemm.ee ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Real question is which came first, BBQ chicken or the Eggs Benedict?

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• davidagain@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  I very much like that I have a clear cut answer for this now.

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• rockSlayer@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Over time, a population of proto-chickens lay eggs with unique genetic variations that randomly direct the population towards laying eggs that result in modern chickens. The egg comes first, and it’s a whole bunch of them

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• AntiOutsideAktion@hexbear.net ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  That’s some good jpeg

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  • fossilesque@mander.xyz ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    delicious, sweet jpeg

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    • breakcore@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Delicious artifacts uhmm

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• madcaesar@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  I know this is a science meme community but the amount of factually inaccurate comments is concerning.

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  • HonoraryMancunian@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    There are more stars in the galaxy than there are atoms in the universe

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  • shikogo@pawb.social ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Unironically would be interested in a list of them, with explanations why they’re wrong. Not to dunk on them but to check my own misconceptions.

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• AffineConnection@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  This cladogram is outdated about turtles, which are no longer considered the most phylogenetically basal reptiles.

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  • xx3rawr@sh.itjust.works ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Last I heard they might be closer to crocs and birds than to zards and snakes

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• HonoraryMancunian@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  TIL turtles are older than crocodiles

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  • Wilzax@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    No, turtles and crocodiles share an older closest common ancestor than lizards and crocodiles.

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• gobble_ghoul@hexbear.net ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  The snake and lizard branch is wrong. I care very much about the accuracy of memes, and I have to point out that many lizards are more closely related to snakes than they are to other lizards.

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  • milicent_bystandr@lemm.ee ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Genetically, maybe, but you have to remember intermarriage and cultural separation within the lizard-snake community.

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• Kolanaki@yiffit.net ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  But which came first:

  The chicken or the chicken’s egg?

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  • aeharding@vger.social ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Based on the jpeg, this meme came first

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  • dependencyinjection@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    I recall reading somewhere that it would have been a proto- chicken kind of thing. Like not quite a chicken but it laid an egg and the first chicken came out.

    Maybe a gene mutation of some sort.

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    • roguetrick@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Even that’s not that clear cut. The mutants and the nonmutant proto chickens interbred regularly and different mutants showed up. The real answer is there’s no such thing as a chicken but we really want to categorize this thing.

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  • niartenyaw@midwest.social ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    i think it would depend on whether the genes from the mother or embryo build the shell.

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    • Sadbutdru@sopuli.xyz ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      I have no direct knowledge about that, but if we take the analogy of the egg (shell, albumen and yolk sack) being the life-support system of the embryo during gestation, in humans the placenta would be a big part of that, and exactly whose body it is part of its not simple (from what I remember both mother and child contribute cells, and the ‘plan’ for building it comes from the father’s genes). So maybe for chickens it could be ambiguous whether the shell ‘belongs’ to the laying generation or the hatching one. Seems like mostly a human taxonomy distinction to make anyway, obviously it’s in between the two, but we like to draw the line somewhere.

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• JadenSmith@sh.itjust.works ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  I haven’t understood how this question seems difficult to so many. Not trying to put anyone down, but chicks hatch from eggs. In order for a chicken to be classified as a chicken (as we know it to be), it would have hatched out of an egg.

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• TurboHarbinger@feddit.cl ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Are chickens even real?

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• itsonlygeorge@reddthat.com ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  An egg is technically a single cell. So, eggs came first as those were the first forms of life.

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• Chapo_is_Red@hexbear.net ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  As a child I was really into dinosaurs and came to this conclusion shocked-dino

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• BrazenSigilos@ttrpg.network ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  The egg came first. To the chickens disappointment and, who left to find a more satisfying partner.

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• ParabolicMotion@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Forget the chicken. What came first, the tardigrade, or the egg? Well, in this case, I think the tardigrade would have to exist first.

  Image

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• EmperorHenry@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  egg laying animals came long before chickens, why was that ever hard to figure out for anyone?

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• hessenjunge@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  I guess the tree branch needs to start somewhere, but why leave out amphibians?

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• Peter_Arbeitslos@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  I love charts without labels and untis.

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• atyaz@hexbear.net ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Maybe they meant chicken eggs but I guess the chicken egg is still first in that case

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• wischi@programming.dev ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  And now everybody together… C O E V O L U T I O N

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• Donkter@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  I thought this was a T-shirt and now I want it on a tshirt

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