Submitted 2 weeks ago by AnonomousWolf@lemmy.world to [deleted]
If you’re going to be a perv, the least you can do is keep that shit to yourself.
You wouldn’t be the first person to have a freak fetish in a room full of people who all agree “Freak Fetish is bad!” that just nodded and smiled and kept their fucking mouths shut.
Exactly, I don’t think people can deny or change what they’re attracted to. God knows they’ve tried that with gay men.
But of course the big difference here is that here these people can’t ever be allowed to act on it. They need to reserve the furthest and darkest place in their mind, build walls around it like they’re building nuclear bunker and seal off all the exits. And don’t fucking tempt that shit with loli anime or other weird shit.
I don’t think people can deny or change what they’re attracted to.
I’m not even going that deep on it. I just think policing what people are attracted to (for whatever reason) is a fool’s errand. At the same time, advertising what you’re attracted to invites public criticism.
They need to reserve the furthest and darkest place in their mind, build walls around it like they’re building nuclear bunker and seal off all the exits.
Not even that. They just don’t need to throw on sandwich boards and parade around anime conventions with bullhorns insisting they have some god-given right to fuck the art.
I think it’s actually more complicated. Things like sexual orientation, absolutely, some parts of desire are clearly hardwired in. But also there’s plenty that’s able to be induced or changed for any number of reasons.
My primary example is that when I was younger I found tattoos to be a hard turn off, piercings too. Anti tattoo sentiments were part of my family’s form of classism, but over the years I got more positive experiences with people who have them and wound up sleeping with people despite them and eventually through exposure and changing of biases got to the point that I now rarely find one to take away from someone’s beauty and often find them to add to it.
In general it’s rude as hell to assume some aspect of someone else’s tastes can (or should) change, we can’t know them particularly well. But we can challenge our own biases and be open to changes in our tastes coming from those challenges.
Now, as for pedophilia, it’s worth trying to change it if possible, and regardless building safety systems to ensure that it’s difficult for these people to offend. But also, I do suspect that the rise of the rich and powerful engaging in pedophilia is something that at least some of them are inducing. They begin by fetishizing youth as a display of power and creep towards the hard line our culture places at 18, and eventually they cross it. I simply cannot believe, until given evidence to the contrary, that such a large portion of the rich and powerful engaging in sexual abuse of minors is unrelated to the fetishization of youth, the trend of the rich and powerful chasing young adults, and the fact that they can get away with anything they want.
I said basically this on the other post about this, but when I look at the characters presented here, not a single one looks “like a child” to me. And I don’t mean “it looks like pedophilia is morally right”, what I mean is that these characters don’t have the traits children have. At least in my eyes.
They don’t look any more like a human child than Kermit the frog does, or Miss Piggy. They’re empty abstractions of people, and we breathe a spirit into them when we project things onto them, and I don’t project “fourteen-year-oldness” onto any of these shapes. Because I’m not into that, maybe?
So, like, even if the plot for these characters states that they’re 14, it certainly doesn’t seem that way. I don’t bring that in with me.
I only recognize like one or two of these characters, so I don’t know what age range is meant to be represented here, I just heard someone else say one of them was 14.
The characters in the post are not the children in question but the profile pictures of people showing up to argue
Oh! Okay, that’s my bad then
Your honor, Can we really say I’m the person that robbed that gas station? In a Baudrillardian sense, both myself and the gas station were mere hyper-real symbols of, and thus morally indistinguishable from the pure form of action, that is being-in-ourselves and not for-ourselves, undifferentiated from any particular point in space or time. I cannot be said to have Truly embodied the sign of “taking what belongs to another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it”, which is said to be Stealing; because what it is, is, is unclear. Am I myself, and not them? How can be say in any objective sense that one is differentiated from the other? How can we demonstrate such a thing when the prosecution itself is ontologically incapable of acquiring true knowledge, being bound to the narrow perspective of their conditions?
smashes gavel Death
😛
Okay, let’s dial it back a bit then. If a 28 year old model puts a nametag on that says “I’m 8 years old”, does it suddenly become pedophilia? It might be a bit “what are you doing that for” but she doesn’t become a child.
If an adult couple, with full consent, engage in Teacher-Student roleplay, does that implicate them in a crime because a real student and real teacher situation is fucked up and unethical?
If I wrote a book where a character’s age was not revealed, and then at the end of the book it suddenly became clear that this character had been a child the whole time, perhaps I’m a shitty author, but it doesn’t suddenly mean every reader goes straight to jail.
All I’m saying is that if you’re going into the works because you know there’s child content, and that’s what you’re into, then that’s bad. But it’s bad that you’re into that anyway.
And if a work is trying to attract attention from those people, then they’re probably not good works for other people.
But if you’re not interested in children, and a character says they’re a teenager, but they don’t remind you of any teenagers you’ve ever met in your real life, it’s easy to go “okay sure whatever” and continue to not connect the idea of this character with real “teenageness”. In the same way that shows can have dragons or laser eyes or flying cars, I can go “okay this person is a Fantasy Teenager, who is for all intents and purposes an adult. Got it”
Now, that’s not to say I’ve never seen something and gone “hmm, this isn’t for me”. That’s totally a thing! There can still be taste, and there can still be plotlines that are cringe, or just plotlines I don’t enjoy in general. And I think it’s fair to think “huh… the author could have picked any age… why did they pick this age”, and maybe that’s enough to take someone out of enjoying a work entirely. Nothing wrong with that.
I should clarify, I don’t say this to defend the individual anime. Maybe some of them are terrible! I’m more just curious at the way y’all seem to see the work. I wish I could glimpse the characters through your eyes and see what you’re picking up, because I don’t seem to have any problem seeing the characters’ form as completely separate from the role they occupy in the plot or fictional world, in a similar way that an actor is not the characters they’ve played.
You’re needing to understand that the cloud of pfps is grown adult pedos coming to lecture sane people.
It’s usually evident from behavior; from looks I’m only identifying 2 of these as children, yeah
I can understand thinking shows with questionable content are good. Some really great shows have some straight up weird content.
Though if you’re justifying sexualizing under aged shaped characters… just … no. There’s a reason everyone (rightfully) shat on Netflix’ Cuties, and that was even trying to call it bad.
Cuties was about real human girls for actors, not fictional characters. And that’s not to say that people shouldn’t give weird anime side eye, but like these are literally two different things. One is based on morals and the other should literally send you to jail.
Literally not two different driving factors. Not nearly as different as you care to imagine…
I recently ran into someone who DM’d me asking to please remove all veiled accusations of them being a pedophile or any comments about the age of a 29 year old animie girl.
This character looks like a 9 year old, based on her height alone she’d for sure not be in High School yet.
But yea sure, she’s 29, only looks 9??
Short people can get old too. Which character was it?
I think nazuna (the greyscale) one on the right is neither visually nor technically a minor. However she is actually the pedophile in this case because she is a vampire going after a literal teenage boy.
Men have lizard brains and eyes. Better that their attention is directed at fabricated cartoon characters or AI stuff than real people.
Except most of people who are into the drawn stuff are not into the real ones. Have heard stories about it, especially since Elon Musk dismantled the Xitter safety team.
Except most of people who are into the drawn stuff are not into the real ones
[Citation Needed]
The question is: (and we can’t have a viable safety study about it) If someone is interested and avoiding it, does feeding make it harder for them to avoid doing horrible things?
There’s another question. Does interest in pictures translates to interest in “similar” people.
I enjoy a lot of things in various media, including a very broad spectrum that ranges from old animation to historical movies, but don’t really care getting close to people beyond basic social interactions, to the point I’m mostly avoiding places I’m not required to be at most of the time.
I don’t care what you say, Becca’s got my heart (Cyberpunk 2077: Edgerunners).
I’m not crying, you’re crying.
One of the most shocking things in Japan that I learned was that… age is hard to guess. Talked to some lady and I thought she was in her early 20’s, nope she was older than me.
Becca was older than the main character, but she chose the Loli aesthetic. A lot of people gave the shiwrunners shit for it too.
This is not a good era for even discussing this stuff, given how the trans athletes conversation is reduced by the right to boys playing in girls sports and furries (most recently) are (again, according to the right) degenerates who belong in institutions and have infiltrated our airlines (and there are still alleged litterboxes in liberal schools for kids who identify as cat).
If that’s the forefront of this conversation, then those who have untoward attractions, or who have teen sex fantasies (ubiquitous in 1970s erotic lit) or whose sexual development was shaped by their CSA victimhood are going to STFU because speaking their truth paints them in the public eye as a menace to society. We can’t help ourselves but ape out about it.
In the meantime, fucking kids is now a thing our plutocratic class does to show off they are beyond reach of accountability. The Epstein affair remains unclosed and unaddressed by any system of justice in the world, and that is far from the only child sex trafficking ring in existence that serves the upper echelons. Trafficked teens are an aristocratic class party favor now, and no society gives a fuck.
We had this conversation about lolicon. We had this conversation about CGI art. We had this conversation about CSA themes in adult fiction (specifically in Sandman #14 Doll’s House: Collectors). It’s why Alan Moore wrote Lost Girls.
We had a much quieter conversation about age-play in the kink community, though mostly they just quietly backed themselves into the hedges and vanished, because no human society is relaxed enough, or data-driven enough to have these conversations without freaking out.
We recognize the same canard, that these consumers can’t tell the difference between fantasy and reality, for what it is when applied to television cartoons, to violent movies, to video-game gunplay, to romance fiction largely consumed by women. But when it applies to sex fetishes, it’s treated as gospel; the political class runs with it and uses it mostly to quash porn, sex work and LGBT+ interests.
Now it turns out a whole lot of people like little girls inappropriately. The underpinning issue of the 1970s-1980s Satanic panic was that one in three women surveyed admitted to getting CSAd. We couldn’t imagine (or cope with the reality of) the offenders being people the kids know (Parents, siblings, relatives, teachers, ministers, neighbors, peers) and so had to invent Satanic Ritual Abuse, that there are secret cabals of cultists who kidnap kids, diddle them for the Devil, and then let them go.
But we don’t want to have that conversation.
Nor do we want to address the principal issues kids face that lead to poor outcomes: Food insecurity, housing insecurity, family insecurity, healthcare insecurity. Fix these things and fewer kids will suffer CSA, and more kids will survive it better. But it’s much easier to use children’s welfare as hype to pass censorship laws.
Also, getting kids into extracurricular activities, also helps them survive dysfunctional conditions, also helps them establish better boundaries, also keeps them out of delinquency.
We don’t want to have that conversation either.
And it’s going to be a long, long time before we can dare to try to have that conversation again.
and there are still alleged litterboxes in liberal schools for kids who identify as cat
man this one pisses me off to no end: schoolrooms often have a box of litter; it’s for school shooting lockdowns - not for kids that identify as cat, it’s so kids don’t wet themselves while hiding from the gun nuts the same assholes who bring this point up keep arming and motivating.
Wow! I didn’t know there was a legit use for cat litter in schools. That just makes it worse.
How come we almost never see the opposite. A character who looks 58 but is actually 12. Like Benjamin Button.
Howl’s Moving Castle?
Would you crucify me if I said I only watched two Ghibli films?
I didn’t knew that is (loosely) based on a book until recently. I recommend it a lot to everyone who liked the premise of the movie.
Every JoJo’s character
There’s a very sad scene like that in Altered Carbon. Humanity can freely swap their minds to other “shells”, but many are expensive or hard to come by. After a disaster, the government is obligated to provide replacement shells to victims, and mostly grabs unwanted spares. So, there’s a scene of a 6-year-old girl being revived in the body of a 70-year-old man, and panicking to her parents about her new fragile bones; both of whom are furious at the soldiers overseeing the transfer.
Kes in voyager was like that. We saw her ‘old’ once and she was like 12
If you include those not in anime, the Ocampa reach sexual maturity between 4 and 5 years old, and die before 10.
Morally wrong AND sexually unappealing*, I can’t imagine why it doesn’t exist
___ for common preferences don’t @ me
Ugh truth. A shitllad of ani communities are like this
So here’s the thing, someone who’s a thousand years old mentally would be quite intimidating, sexually, regardless of what they’re like physically. The thing about a lot of fictional “thousand year old” characters is that they still act like children, more or less.
There was a bit in Aeon Flux (or was it Ghost in the Shell?) where some kid (>16) was hitting on her, and she was like “oh you want to have sex? Sure let’s see what you’ve got” and the kid just like shits his pants. I think they end up having sex but in the aftermath it’s clear the kid was not in control.
So IMO you had a realistic “physically 9 but mentally 1000 year old” I think most pedos would not be into that.
Usually being attracted to something isn’t something someone can help. I think hentai is a safe outlet. And I’m not interested in introducing chilling effect legislation to censor stuff.
That said, I don’t think hentai is effective in preventing child abuse but I also do not think it increases its prevalence either.
Admittedly my personal usage of porn is my basis: I don’t desire fems less after consuming porn of them being reamed from both ends but that doesn’t mean it also encourages me to go out and rape them. I imagine whether a pedophile abuses a child (or is capable of such) has more to do with whether they have other elements of personality or intellectual/emotional problems.
Uh. Isn’t Rei Ayanami (2nd from the top, blue hair) visually 14 but canonically like four years old during the events of the original Evangelion series? Somehow that’s not even the most fucked up part about what happens to basically everybody throughout the story, either.
I was there, when left/liberal leaning people in fandoms denounced loli/shota/cub/whatever in the mid 2010’s, mainly thanks to the Shädbase v. Keemstar drama, but also allegedly some leftist lolicons were frequenting pro-pedophile forums.
It did not help victims. It did not help anything good.
It instead created a safe-space for fascists in fandom spaces, by just vaguely signaling any interest towards the material, and by leftists treating it like literally Satan.
And also created a good surface for salami-tactics, since how frequent it is in anime. During the whole Vaush folder reveal drama it came to my mind, that those accounts could have been done by either tankies to get rid of the “anarkiddies” (whom they hate more than actual fascists), or the fascists themselves.
About the “normalizing” argument: I’ve seen the same arguments used for body hair removal, small breasts, etc. Even remember seeing some Tumblr post about “how to stop looking and sounding pedobait”.
Damn I’m glad I have no idea what you’re talking about. One less swamp to worry about.
For real, I felt so lost reading that comment. And that’s okay.
Ah yeah, the “I can’t read” fallacy. So it’s not just AI boosters who’re using it against anti-AI activists…
Huh. I mean the front and center one is male and 20 years old and not sexualized?
But I agree with the whole of the post.
a bunch of them on the frontpage are anime subs, young girls: like zenless zero, wuthering, genshin,etc. all the fans are men and wierd HORSE fetish.
I’ve never actually heard anyone say were attracted to a character like shinobu from monogatari. The only times this discussion has ever come up from what I know is when a character is canonically underage but drawn to look like an adult like rias from dxd.
I have absolutely 100% seen the “she’s a 1000 year old witch coincidentally drawn as a child” unironically in many nsfw forums. Like it’s not hard to find, there is evidence of it on Reddit even let alone sites dedicated to the subject or with worse moderation policies.
It’s out there. Denying it’s existence just reveals your own ignorance on the subject.
Does putting an adult mind in the body of a child immediately imply sexualization? Or can you specifically name the instances of this where the characters are sexualized?
I watch a shit load of anime and off the top of my head I can think of three that fall into the latter category. (And no, I did not continue watching those shows)
Westerners have a tendency to sexualize anything that breathes. That says a lot more about our culture and issues than it does about Japanese culture.
The “powerful spiritual entity regressing to the form of a child” has a long, deeply rooted history in eastern religion and culture. It is not inherently sexual. It is not an excuse to sexualize children. And many Japanese people see westerners as the ones with a problem for projecting sexualization into minors in these scenarios. In their world view, a powerful old spirit in a regressed body is still a powerful old spirit, not a child. Form does not dictate function.
The history behind it is genuinely fascinating (happy to point you at the research I did on this specific subject a while back).
Of course there are absolutely serious problems with some content where there is 100% sexualization of minors (and worse) going on. But that’s far more the exception than the rule.
When I say this I’m referring to discussions that I’ve seen. You can call me ignorant all you like but this is not denying the existence of nsfw art of young looking characters which is obviously the case.
I’m basically saying that the age of a fictional character is far less important than how that character looks and presents. This is not just a thing in anime, I also don’t think that someone who finds the characters in Riverdale attractive are pedos.
Do you think the people who draw porn of characters like shinobu aren’t attracted to them? Just because you’ve not heard anyone say it outright doesn’t make it so it isn’t so.
When I isekai I’m going to bang a 80 year old elf. Under elf law they don’t become adults until they turn 100, but that’s not how it works under human law. I’m going to get her so pregnant.
Truck-kun take me now. My body is ready.
Neat 🤖📸
Mental illness
I’m guessing that your last “anime is pedo” bait post from the other day got removed, so now you’re on this account doing the exact same thing but in a common meme format in the hopes that it’ll be less reportable. Get I get that about right?
Every other post: this is shitposting lol XDXD fartfartpeepee don’t take it so seriously
Post about CSAM in fiction: I’m a Harvard Harvard! I know studies science science! This is psychology citations! It’s fine to ham my little man to AI CSAM!
Seems it’s coincidental that someone else complained about anime in general as being wholly “harmful to morals”: lemmy.world/post/53091493
I’m not sure what you’re saying, this is the first I’m seeing this post
Rachelhazideas@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Speaking as someone who was sexually assaulted as a minor, I would rather people rub themselves off to fictional characters than have it happen to anyone else.
You cannot stop people from being attracted to minors. Making something illegal doesn’t magically remove feelings, nor does it magically prevent people from doing it. The threat of prison has never stopped prisoners.
If people are attracted to fictional minors, let them be honest about it so that parents can keep children away from them. The more the attraction to fictional minors is stigmatized, the less people will openly declare it and the less likely they will seek help.
autriyo@feddit.org 2 weeks ago
I am not 100% sure if this approach would have the intended effect, but the stigma around paedophilia doesn’t help at all with actually protecting children.
It should be in everyone’s interests to find reliable solutions to these problems. Sexual attraction isn’t something one can freely choose, or turn off at will. I imagine it must be difficult to deal with sexuality that is potentially hurtful towards unconsenting parties without any guidance.
dillekant@slrpnk.net 2 weeks ago
Very sorry for what happened to you. A great line I heard once was “it’s not the child, it’s the abuse”, and that really helped me understand the problem better. I think the goal of a lot of people when hearing about CSA is to try and take children out of society as a whole (eg: don’t have them represented in media), and that’s the “solution”, but really children deserve to be in society, they deserve a say, they deserve to be taken seriously. In fact, trying to erase children as a whole is what gives abusers their power, and really it’s about the power difference which enables abuse.
Katana314@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Reminds me of the anime quandary I took some time to realize as a kid.
I learned about anime. This bizarre medium from Oh, Japan. It often has girls victimized by skimpy outfits or pervy characters, and I figure: Wow, kind of a guy’s haven, but women must hate this stuff.
Nope; turns out, compared to most other media I’d had an interest in, the gender demographic was fairly split there. Because, women might get objectified in anime, but at least they had a presence. Rarely is their role even relegated to something insignificant like a damsel in distress. They’d rather look up to the magical girl in the leotard that unleashes cool attacks, even though she gets creeped on, than Princess Zelda who wears a full dress but sits in a dungeon all game.
(Not claiming either of those are perfect, either! Just a matter of lesser problems)
lechekaflan@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Some of these are even more defiant on social media, openly being “me gusta”.
With their full names.
AnyOldName3@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
There’s a decent amount if evidence that it’s at least partially a fetish rather than a sexuality, so people are more likely to become paedophiles if they’re exposed to things that make them associate children with sex (including being assaulted as a child), and their attraction to children becomes stronger the more they’re exposed (so people who download some CSAM are more likely to want to download more and more likely to escalate to doing things in real life).
cley_faye@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
You’re gonna have to give more than “a decent amount of evidence” with the claims you’re making afterward.
liuther9@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I also believe that pedophilia is same as homosexuality. You can not stop people from being that way.