Both of the Cold War empires spent decades lying about what socialism was, and that process continues to this day. No wonder people are confused.
This is why Americans hate Socialism.
Submitted 2 weeks ago by sanitation@lemmy.today to workreform@lemmy.world
https://lemmy.today/pictrs/image/eea5d825-f5aa-4ba1-81e3-356680a7f5e3.png
Comments
LibertyLizard@slrpnk.net 2 weeks ago
jimmy90@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
oooh look it’s the truth
commies look look - this is why you are hated and your recent terrorist supporting populist/authoritarian fantasies are just making it worse!
Koarnine@pawb.social 2 weeks ago
What
BrainInABox@lemmy.ml 2 weeks ago
The Zionist is mad
brownsugga@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
All major media outlets are fascist mouthpieces
ShutUpWesley@piefed.zip 2 weeks ago
brownsugga@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Sweet
rf_@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
“Means of building collective power”. That’s the right thing to communicate, My take is we need a new word that’s not socialism, communism etc because those words have lost concrete meaning, similar to globalism and neoliberalism no one knows what they mean anymore because they’ve been targeted, abused, redefined and vilified.
People have knee-jerk reactions to those words.
ODuffer@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I think basically stop denonising unions. I’ve been hesitant to join mine as I don’t want to be seen as a trouble maker. Funnily I’ve already received my ‘last promotion’ at 56. I could shit on the marble floor and not get sacked. However simply displaying solidarity with my colleagues is deemed ‘offensive’. Two more years nearing retirement and I think I’ll let rip
some_kind_of_guy@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Yeah… most people in my country don’t have a union available, and there are no prospects for creating one in the near future. I don’t mean any offense myself, but just having access to a union and not joining it is… an interesting choice from my perspective.
save_the_humans@leminal.space 2 weeks ago
A cooperative economy, co-ops in general, is the answer in my opinion. Anarchists and communists are mostly on board, if only seeing them as stepping stones towards larger goals. Being a form of socialism, socialists are on board. While being stateless and still relying on markets they may be able to sway conservatives. Their economic proof of success already might convince liberals. And who doesn’t want democracy in their workplace?
mHtt@lemmy.ca 2 weeks ago
in the OG Matrix Cypher isn’t evil because he betrays everyone and gets some people killed, which is undoubtedly and evil act. No, Cypher is inherently evil because he not only doesn’t care, but he actively chooses ignorance. He CHOOSES to go back to sleep. This is the avg American. They chose ignorance because IGNORANCE IS BLISS.
FlyingCircus@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
The opinions shared about socialism in this thread prove you right, unfortunately.
WappleFF27@feddit.online 2 weeks ago
I tried that in a group of people the other day. I got a resounding “Nah, I’m good”
What do you do when everyone is happy to die?
Burn_The_Right@lemmy.today 2 weeks ago
“Parasitic pedophile class” is a lot of words to just say “conservatives”.
UltraGiGaGigantic@lemmy.ml 2 weeks ago
The 1%
Burn_The_Right@lemmy.today 2 weeks ago
Conservatives are the footsoldiers of the 1% and are in complete agreement with them on pretty much every topic. Conservatives see themselves as temporarily embarassed billionaires.
Conservatives are the reason for our wealth inequality. If not for conservatives, the normal people would be able to regulate the hoarding of wealth and the behavior of the 1%. Conservatives are the sole reason laws do not apply to the wealthy.
ZombieCyborgFromOuterSpace@piefed.ca 2 weeks ago
Everybody’s hooked on communism.
But what about anarchism?
heartSagan5@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
Anarchism is an assured destruction of the Social Contract. People, without guidance, are more horrible.
decolo@piefed.social 2 weeks ago
You know anarchism doesn’t just mean ‘anything goes’, right?
some_kind_of_guy@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
[citation needed]
5wim@infosec.pub 2 weeks ago
“No rulers” doesn’t mean “no rules.”
Doc_Crankenstein@slrpnk.net 2 weeks ago
Decades of anthropological evidence say otherwise. Read Graeber’s works on the subject. They are incredibly enlightening.
Cyv_@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 weeks ago
Anarchy only helps those privileged enough to have the means to defend what they have with violence.
Anarchy means the sick, disabled, poor, minorities, etc are thrown to the wolves, and expected to defend themselves with less capability and resources than the majority.
Sure, you might argue family units or communities might band together and take care of each other, but they probably need some rules to make that equitable since not everyone will agree, and- oops we made government again.
JoeBigelow@lemmy.ca 2 weeks ago
Sips fox news brand coolaid
ZombieCyborgFromOuterSpace@piefed.ca 2 weeks ago
That’s not how anarchism works.
FlyingCircus@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Idealistic and naive, in my view. Anarchists have never explained how we get from here to the global classless, stateless, moneyless society that both communists and anarchists wish to achieve, given the context of capitalist power and reaction — at least no explanation that makes sense to me.
I would be happy to be proven wrong though, as I truly believe that both groups want the same outcome.
ZombieCyborgFromOuterSpace@piefed.ca 2 weeks ago
That’s fair
Doc_Crankenstein@slrpnk.net 2 weeks ago
The two are not mutually exclusive
FlyingCircus@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
The amount of people who are completely ignorant about socialism and communism in this thread is evidence that the first sentence of this tweet is true, and that it was super effective.
ZK686@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Whenever I see posts about “rebelling” and “standing up” I just think…are you assuming that vast majority of people in this country ARE NOT okay with their lives? I mean, that’s the only way a true “rebellion” will ever occur. And despite what liberals and the Left say, most Americans are content with their lives.
FiniteBanjo@feddit.online 2 weeks ago
I mean, sure, they made an effort to make people hate all forms of tax and welfare, but the USSR and China have done a fantastic job of making you hate the words socialism and communism.
Hell, even the nazis used the moniker of National Socialists.
SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca 2 weeks ago
Yeah I’d say there might be a bigger problem with leftists trying to associate things like healthcare programs with the word socialism that’s holding things back.
Kinda disconnected from reality when you’re saying we should do X because X is something failed systems have done. Might be more successful to say we should do X because X is good and it won’t make us into a failed state.
kurwa@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Yeah socialism is going to make the US fail, it’s totally not currently failing rn… LOL
auntieclokwise@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Yeah, we have a phobia around the word socialism. Probably part of why the DSA won’t ever be more than a small minority, even if they DO have the right idea about alot of things (a few things they’re really not right on though - like abolition of private property as the means of production just will never fly here and it’s not clear to me that’s a good idea anyway). But maybe we can take the best of socialism and repackage it in a way that’s palatable. Make it into a sort of socialism with American characteristics, as the Chinese might say. In alot of ways, it’s really just an updated version of the Progressive movement of the late 1800’s/early 1900’s.
mechoman444@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Cuba Vietnam Laos and North Korea currently.
Also Cambodia also Cambodia and Yugoslavia.
It’s actually every country that tried socialism…
Also China is a hybrid system with a thriving free market and many extremely powerful and wealthy mega corporations.
plyth@feddit.org 2 weeks ago
What’s bad about Cuba that isn’t caused by the embargo?
FiniteBanjo@feddit.online 2 weeks ago
If China’s plans for Myanmar keep going well then them soon, too. I feel like China is playing them like a slot machine: arming a coup repeatedly until it ends up the way they want.
FlyingCircus@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
*the limited and distorted information that the West feeds you about the USSR and China have done a fantastic job of making you hate the words socialism and communism.
FTFY
FiniteBanjo@feddit.online 2 weeks ago
lmfao
Russia historians citing USSR internal records are all western lies?
plyth@feddit.org 2 weeks ago
How does one connect with one’s humanity?
How does one connect with one’s community, especially if somebody has to start?
affenlehrer@feddit.org 2 weeks ago
Maybe some voluntary work? That should tick both boxes
Malica@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
Volunteer work
Bloomcole@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
americans can’t rebel.
that money has also been used to make them weak, subservient and pacified.
Best they can do is vote harder and whinepostmateDumbass@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I bugged out 20 years ago and that community you refer to took alll they could from me and kicked me to the curb.
Im gonna need appologies and damages compensated before i believe in society again.
Im not holding my breath.
bashibazouk@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
And yet you need twitter to get your message out. Irony in that…
mechoman444@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
O my God. I cannot even begin to tell you how truly stupid this meme is!
Building collective power and protecting the vulnerable.
Show me one example of a socialist or communist country that has actually accomplished what this meme is describing. And no, don’t just say China. China is a hybrid economy that has incorporated extensive markets and private enterprise alongside substantial state ownership and control. It isn’t some straightforward example of the socialism this meme is talking about.
More importantly, socialism and communism were never originally designed around “protecting the vulnerable” in the first place. The central issue was economic power and ownership.
The fundamental socialist argument was that the people who collectively produce wealth should have collective ownership and control over the means of production, rather than allowing those means of production to be concentrated in the hands of a relatively small class of private owners.
And ironically, wealth concentration is exactly the problem we’re dealing with today. You don’t need to invent a “parasitic pedophile class” or some grand conspiracy to make that argument. Concentration of wealth inevitably creates concentration of political and economic power, and that is a legitimate problem that deserves serious discussion.
You can absolutely argue that collective economic power would provide greater protection for vulnerable people. But that’s an argument for socialism. It isn’t the original definition or purpose of socialism.
If you’re going to defend socialism, at least defend what socialism actually is rather than turning it into a generic synonym for “things that help vulnerable people.”
And can we please stop attributing every good thing a government does to socialism? Socialism is an economic system. Programs designed to help people are social programs run by the government, and they are not inherently socialist or communist. Providing public services and social programs is simply one of the basic functions of a governing system.
Objection@lemmy.ml 2 weeks ago
You don’t need to invent a “parasitic pedophile class” or some grand conspiracy to make that argument.
How on earth is it a “grand conspiracy” to label the class known for extracting wealth from workers to fund child sex parties ‘the parasitic pedophile class?’ That’s just a straightforward description of the group of people who in practice have concentrations of wealth.
I genuinely don’t even know what part of this is supposed to be conspiratorial. Are they not parasitic? Are they not pedophiles? Are they not a class?
You can absolutely argue that collective economic power would provide greater protection for vulnerable people. But that’s an argument for socialism. It isn’t the original definition or purpose of socialism.
Hard disagree. Workers are vulnerable people, who, without organization, are taken advantage of by the ruling class. “What force on earth is weaker than the feeble strength of one? But the union makes us strong!” And vulnerable people are workers, many of them anyway. Socialism is not and never has been just about some stereotypical image of an able-bodied white guy in a hardhat and fuck everybody else. In order to achieve working class solidarity, especially on an international scale it is absolutely 100% necessary to overcome barriers such as race, gender etc, which means supporting and accommodating all sorts of vulnerable people.
mechoman444@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I’m going to say a very unpopular thing here and it’s going to get downloaded specifically because of this but that’s okay because with the truth is the truth.
But let me preface I also believe that there is a undercurrent of significant child abuse in the upper echelons of American society specifically politics and amongst the ultra wealthy. I think it’s one of those things that we just don’t really talk about it’s the quiet part that nobody really wants to say out loud.
At the end of the day we don’t really have any hard concrete evidence we have a massive amount of speculation and conjecture and circumstantial evidence. So much so that it is not only worth investigating but it probably qualifies for a whole lot of arrests including people at the absolute very top if you catch my drift and it should have happened at very long time ago.
But it hasn’t nobody’s gone to court nobody’s been prosecuted nobody has made their case in front of a courtroom in a jury. Is a difficult thing for me to admit to that ultimately we’ve got a whole bunch of nothing.
So aside from foaming at the mouth with unsubstantiated rhetoric I can’t definitively say that there is a pedophilic class of people in the United States. Are there people committing horrific acts of child abuse yes could it be being performed in groups of people sure. Is there an entire class of people that are pedophiles extremely debatable probably not.
So understand I’m simply trying to be precise without degrading myself to propaganda like speak and misinformation to describe what is happening in the United States.
That being said I am opposed to any and all child abuse of any kind. Anybody who commits crimes be it a president or some homeless dude on the street they all need to be prosecuted and punished under the law. I condemn any and all abuse to individuals and groups of people. I do not support right wing conservatism I despise maga and there is enough circumstantial evidence for arrests and prosecutions to occur when it comes to child abuse please do not twist my words or make up positions for me that I didn’t take.
As for the second part of your statement I will tell you what I tell everybody else socialism is a stomach it is not social or public programs offered by literally any kind of government. Socialism does not protect the worker it simply gives the means of production to the worker. You can hard disagree with whatever you want it really makes no difference to me either way.
Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
reconnecting with your humanity and community
Hard pass.
ShutUpWesley@piefed.zip 2 weeks ago
That is precisely the response the Epstein class is hoping for.
Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Well then maybe humans and communities should be less annoying.
Gammelfisch@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
…but Corporate Socialism is widely accepted and successful in the USA. The Americans will not top the 1st class European countries, because the vast majority are slaving away at work and simply too tired and stressed out to protest or vote out the asswipes supporting the current system.
DudeWhoYapsTooMuch@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
That and most of us didn’t pay attention to school.
SethTaylor@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Communism is the honeydew of left-wing ideologies. Stop trying to work it into every post about free healthcare, income inequality, human rights and so on. Stop trying to normalize. It’s literally banned in multiple countries for legitimate reasons. It’s been used to oppress millions of people. If you support it you clearly don’t understand it. And people who put it next to socialism are clearly trying to smear socialism. Seriously.
Socialism and communism are not the same thing and American right wingers in particular keep trying to make it look like they are because it helps them win elections. Trump’s new thing is “Democrats are communists”. Think about it. He’s calling democratic socialists communists. Grasp the nuance and use it to your advantage. Stop upvoting this type of stuff. You’re digging yourselves into a hole.
Anyway… I wish I could be telling this to OP, but that is a Twitter screenshot there, I think, and I sure as fuck am not going there.
Objection@lemmy.ml 2 weeks ago
Communism is the goal of socialism. The original democratic socialists, people like Eduard Bernstein, called it that because the idea was that communism could be achieved through gradually reforming existing political systems. It became more and more obvious that this was just a pretense, with things like the betrayal of the Second International and the demsoc support of WWI, and now we’re at a point where the pretense is often dropped entirely.
It’s been used to oppress millions of people.
Communism has never been used to oppress anyone because it’s never existed as a system (not counting primitive communism). There have only been socialist states that claim to be working towards communism. The Union of Soviet Socialist Republics was not called The Union of Soviet Communist Republics.
FlyingCircus@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Also, it hasn’t been used to oppress millions of people because it straight up hasn’t. The history of socialism that Americans and other Westerners have been taught is filled with lies, exaggerations, and missing context.
darkempressofchaos@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
waaait the solution to deal with our pedophilic and corrupt governemnt is to give that same government more power and have its citizens more reliant on them???
Objection@lemmy.ml 2 weeks ago
to give that same government more power
No, absolutely not. Socialism has nothing to do with giving capitalist states more power.
UnequalExchange@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
americans hate it cause they want to hate it.
There are millions upon millions of americans and millions of them are armed. If they wanted a socialost state they could have had easily have gotten one by nkw…but they STILL havent done that…
So clearly they dont want it.
“Nothing is substantial until it is substantiated”
betanumerus@lemmy.ca 2 weeks ago
The rich use their money to make separate classes using information/propaganda/public relations/marketing/slogans or whatever your favourite word is for communication to the masses.
Godofdirt@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
It’s not natural for this much ineaquality
saltesc@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
The US used to be a world leader in anti-fascism. There’s even those old-timey films explaining how it letting it in would ruin the American way.
M137@lemmy.today 2 weeks ago
Eeeh… It was only anti-fascism as in “anti-others” (who happened to be fascists in a way they differentiated from). The US has been real fucking bad from the very start and there hasn’t been a single moment where that stopped. I can’t see a single period where it isn’t the modern day meaning of fascist. Yeah, the civil war was won by the better part but it wasn’t a “good vs evil” black and white thing, because nothing is like that in reality. Faschism is deeply ingrained in the US and has always been so, especially when it comes to politicians, military, police force etc.
plyth@feddit.org 2 weeks ago
anti-fascism or anti competing fascism?
Isn’t manifested destiny already fascism?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manifest_destiny
Rothe@piefed.social 2 weeks ago
Because the American Way competed with fascism about many of the same things. It is not the brag you think it is.