Submitted 3 weeks ago by BlindPenguin@lemmy.world to [deleted]
https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/19cceebe-2591-47c6-9d9d-2e3c4155f07e.jpeg
I never got the issue with tech being “stolen”. Free exchange of information almost always helps everyone. The only class it doesn’t help is the capitalist class, which wants rent extraction by gatekeeping human advancements.
There are a great many things to criticise the Chinese state for. Allegedly “stealing tech” or “stealing western IP” however, has to be one of the weakest criticisms (even if it’s actually happening).
My dad brings this up when China comes up in conversation and I’m always just like “yeah, and…?” Like if we’re so smart why are they the ones with bullet trains and solar panels and not us?
General topic aside: Because having an idea doesn’t automatically mean you get to sell it. China is stratehically subsidising promising sectors to create national champions and subsequently crush foreign competition by flooding the market with dumping priced goods. An intelligent strategy but its seems like a double-edged sword as China doesn’t seem to freely share own innovations with others due to competitive reasons.
And in the case of AI models it’s straight up deranged to act like China is “stealing” from the US because US corporations trained those models on stolen data to begin with
Didn’t we actually steal Wernher von Braun?
The whole story is fascinating, if more than a little fucked up.
He and his engineering team decided to seek out US troops to surrender to because he didn’t want the Soviets getting their hands on his rocket tech. The US government got him out of the country, forged documents to get him into the US legally, granted him immunity and shielded him from being prosecuted for war crimes and atrocities he was involved in.
because he didn’t want the Soviets getting their hands on his rocket tech
I think it was more him not wanting to be caught by the Russians because it would be a lot more uncomfortable.
He was sitting poolside at a resort when an US agent came up to him and said essentially “we found you, we also know where your family is. You can come with us and we’ll get you and your family out, or, you can wait for the Russians to find you, which won’t be long, and you can see what they do with you. The choice is yours, but make it right now.” So he went to the US because he felt his fate was better there. And he wasn’t just a scientist who was being used by the Nazis, he was a hardened nazi. He ran factories with slave labor that had executed corpses hanging from the ceiling. The workers had to go down a hallway to check into work where the bodies of sabotauers were on display and they had to punch them on their way onto the floor. He wasn’t just complicit in that and how things were run, those were his decisions. (I did a humongous project on the V-2 rocket when I was younger. Would have won the national competition in DC if I would have just answered one question the judges were essentially begging me to answer)
And that kids, is why you should study engineering in college.
yes, and so much more. the americans actually took everything and anything rocket related they could get their hands on, trying to prevent the russians from doing the same.
Russians did the same, the Soyous rockets date (with many modernisation) back from stolen nazi V2 motors.
Yep, Saturn IV if I remember correctly
We bought him out.
As an American China doesn’t have to steal our tech. They’ve already surpassed America in every measurable metric except for Gdp and consumption which isn’t really a win at all.
Oh I don’t know. I think America still leads China in school shootings.
Shots fired!
Also obesity.
China stole nuclear secrets around 16 years ago and that’s the whole reason why the USA doesn’t cooperate with them in space like it does other countries. So it hasn’t been that long since China felt like it needed to.
While I totally agree with this the irony is china turned out to be the slightly less evil capitalist than America. And only because of their one party system.
They never tried to steal any tech, they were given tech by the US government for years in return they were to be the one and only source of cheap consumer goods and then trump 1.0 happened and all that was thrown out the window.
China hates trump for a multitude of reason but this one in particular especially.
every measurable metric except for Gdp and consumption which isn’t really a win at all.
So much of US GDP is tied up in the FIRE sector anyway. Housing is overinflated. Insurance is overinflated. Tech is crazy overinflated. It’s something of a joke to say the US is outrunning China when US businesses are touting triple-digit P/E ratios following decades of low-interest borrowing and bailouts.
And with all the consumer goods prices skyrocketing, you have to wonder how long American excess consumption can even last. $4/gal gas isn’t going to be any kinder to the US Automotive market today than it was during the Bush Admin.
If your “we” or “us” includes the Nazis then you’ve probably made a mistake somewhere along the line.
Yeah… if you’re german. You know exactly why and how your tech was ‘stolen’. I would suggest you sit in your corner of shame and don’t draw anymore attention to it.
You know exactly why and how your tech was ‘stolen’.
I mean, was it even stolen? Most of the Operation Paperclip Nazis got cushy US jobs, extraordinary pay packages, and even seats on the boards of private contracting firms.
How many Nazi multi-millionaires were running around the NATO-block ten years into the Cold War?
It was 12 years for us, it’s been 250 years for the US
Wrong flag, bud.
Yeah didn’t the Chinese invent gunpowder?
p.s. tankies go home
Everyone forgets Goddard. He invented what the German scientists perfected after a lot of government investments. The US didn’t want to go that way with Rocketry, until the world saw the Germans make it work.
The US set Goddard to work on Jet assisted take off in WWII.
Yeah, fundamentally science and engineering are internationalist collaborative projects.
I’ve seen plenty of tankies boasting that the Soviets were great space scientists.
The ones who beat the US at every part of the space race until the moon landing? Those Soviets?
Read up on the actual history.
The Soviets were using the same Nazis as the Americans, they didn’t invent anything.
The US had announced that they were going to send up a satellite on a particular day. The Soviets jumped the gun to win.
The goal was always getting a man on the Moon. Both Verne and H G Wells wrote about it in the 1800s. If anyone ever wrote a epic novel about a man orbiting the Earth I never heard of it.
And the Soviets killed a dog.
Tbf, they were quite good. Yes, they did take in German scientists and hardware to boost heir rocket program, but they mainly used them to transfer knowledge, and then dumped most of those scientists. And after that, they had indeed several very impressive feats. Like that Venus probe thing. I think that one was one of the best.
Was that ever in doubt?
Ambiguous question.
Were the Soviets great scientists? Meh, they had their own version of Operation Paperclip.
Were tankies going to be tankies? Nope, no doubt ever.
They’re right, cry about it
They did Nazi that coming I guess!
JoMiran@lemmy.ml 3 weeks ago
The US didn’t steal these Image guys rocket tech. They stole these Image guys rocket tech. They are not the same.
gnufuu@lemmy.ca 3 weeks ago
“Hey, OP from Germany, why didn’t you put a Swastika on there?”
surewhynotlem@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
Technically we stole the engineers.
glups@piefed.social 2 weeks ago
And a few choice prototypes
PotatoesFall@discuss.tchncs.de 2 weeks ago
I hate to tell you this but most Image are Image now
exasperation@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
I thought now most became:
Image
BlindPenguin@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
Just let me have the Schadenfreude. It’s the only thing keeping me sane. :P
ChickenLadyLovesLife@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Remember: “If the flag has yellow, he’s a fine fellow. If the flag has white, you’re in for a fight.”
sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
Image
… I think Hezbollah is gonna put up a fight.
tetris11@feddit.uk 2 weeks ago
*meanwhile in the Vatican*
lemmysir@lemmy.zip 3 weeks ago
The formatting on this comment is terrible. Is it because of the app I’m using or just how it is? I use Voyager.
HulkSmashBurgers@reddthat.com 3 weeks ago
I use voyager too. I shared the post to firefox and it looks the same so I don’t think it’s voyager.
Axolotl_cpp@feddit.it 2 weeks ago
That’s how it’s meant to look like, on mobile it’s not as pretty (isn’t terrible tho) Image