Don’t just review bomb it
What's going on with Borderlands 2? Steam is giving it for free, but the game has 23% positive recent reviews.
Submitted 3 weeks ago by bimbimboy@lemm.ee to games@lemmy.world
https://lemm.ee/pictrs/image/0c3ece2a-9c09-42f1-90af-870146646174.png
Comments
BuboScandiacus@mander.xyz 3 weeks ago
AcesFullOfKings@feddit.uk 3 weeks ago
[deleted]BuboScandiacus@mander.xyz 2 weeks ago
Steam has a history of removing things people don’t like (for example: banning ad-ridden games)
So if all these reports can bring them to add this to their TOS, it’s worth it
Owlboi@lemm.ee 2 weeks ago
absolutely. Steam is not to mess with and takes such matters quite seriously.
alanjaow@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Fun fact, it’s called a parliament! I regret that I am not an owl.
CatsGoMOW@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
Doesn’t the screenshot you posted explain what’s going on?
Lemjukes@lemm.ee 3 weeks ago
- Did the EULA change? ✅
- Were all Take Two games automatically updated in secret and now hijack your machine with root access to spy? ❌
- Do Take Two games contain code to report telemetry and user information to a home server? ✅
- Is this EULA change extraordinary and particularly egregious in comparison to others that most people have probably already agreed to? ✅(IMO)
- Are people riled up because e a YouTube video went a little viral and now they’re all playing telephone to the point where it’s now gotten to the point of random dumdums are review booming a 13 year old game claiming it’s turned into literal spyware? ✅(again, IMO)
- Should you be surprised by any of this if you’ve been even remotely paying attention for any period of the last 30-40 years? ❌
Mustakrakish@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
BlindFrog@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
Precise location information? Wtf for?
Lemjukes@lemm.ee 3 weeks ago
A bit more than what? I’ll say it again, if you think this is anything new you haven’t been paying attention. I’m all for calling this fuckery out and pushing for something better. But like where yall been?
pulsewidth@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Would it shock you to know that ALL of these are in the Steam terms of service also?
The only really sus one to me is the forced arbitration clause, and Steam also had that til they were pressured to remove it by multiple legal cases, including a class action brought to them by Steam user just last September. It is only sus because it’s outdated - companies are generally removing them now rather than adding them. legal.io/…/Valve-Removes-Mandatory-Arbitration-fr…
RE: remaining top 5 bullet points, 3 of the remaining 4 bullet points are uncontroversial bullet points about anticheat. The fourth is banning modding, which is also just a heavy handed anticheat attempt, and not uncommon for online games to add to their ToS to allow banning at their discretion. Either way its clumsy at the least as some mods can be harmless eg HUD mods for colourblind people and deserves some negativity - but not to this level, given everything else is just so boilerplate.
Collected data types: these are all for if you buy stuff with a credit card / paypal / etc off 2k/parent company Take 2. Remember, they sell games with in-game purchases. They also have an app which has location permissions option which is what the precise location is about.
So yes - again, as OP said, this is nothing controversial if you have paid attention to ToS meaning and content over the past 20 years.
Aside from the forced arbitration crap - which Steam, Microsoft, Amazon, Lyft, Uber, Google, AT&T - and hundreds of other major companies all snuck into their ToS over the years, and many have now been legally pressured to remove by consumer rights group. That is stupid because it shows their legal team is behind the times, companies are mostly removing their forced arbitration clauses nowadays because it has been the cause of many lost class actions.
JasonDJ@lemmy.zip 3 weeks ago
So…if Steam is running in a Flatpak, and Borderlands is launched from Steam, how much can they even see…really?
RetroGoblet79@eviltoast.org 3 weeks ago
They know I use Linux and that means they know too much
MentalEdge@sopuli.xyz 2 weeks ago
Not a lot. Even when it isn’t a flatpak windows software running on linux won’t be able to interact with the system anywhere near as much as on windows.
They’ll be able to tell it’s linux, though.
FauxLiving@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
So…if Steam is running in a Flatpak, and Borderlands is launched from Steam, how much can they even see…really?
Without using exploits to escape the container, not much. A very empty Windows environment with a single game installed, your network interfaces and any directories that the Flatpak has access to (usually just the SteamLibrary directories).
The TOS (www.take2games.com/legal/en-US/) changes are mostly related to data that they collect via their interfacing with Steam and through their website. This idea that they’re requiring you to agree to a root level access or installing a spyware rootkit are just nonsense.
domi@lemmy.secnd.me 2 weeks ago
You can install an application like Flatseal (flathub.org/apps/com.github.tchx84.Flatseal) to inspect the permissions for a flatpak.
How locked down a flatpak is depends entirely on the developer and what permissions they request. By default, they can’t really see much. For example, they can’t even see the processes running on your host or your user and system files.
Flatpak does not do anything about network access though, it can only do no access or full access, no in between. The data they can collect on Linux in a Flatpak is very limited but it does not prevent them from calling home.
Squizzy@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
New to linux…are flatpaks like sandboxed?
sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
Pretty much nailed it, yep.
A youtuber named Hellfire has been on a spree, basically discovering how fucked up EULAs have been in games for the past 20ish years… well this is all brand new news to him and and his Zoomer / Gen A followers.
There is, as of right now, literally zero evidence that Borderlands 2 has been updated with a rootkit, with kernel level anti cheat, anything like that.
The last update to its game files was 2 years ago.
This is almost certainly them updating the EULA everywhere, for some specific arcane legal and business reasons… TakeTwo runs a whole bunch more games than juat Borderlands… namely GTA V…
…
Is this EULA bad? Yes.
Is it much worse than it was before, or what other large gaming companies EULAs have, and have had for… a decade+?
Maybe by a bit, but not really, no.
…
Is Randy Pitchford a dumb idiot asshole?
Oh absolutely yes, but that shouldn’t give people the liscense to make completely unevidenced claims about other things.
…
The game does not have a kernel level AC or some kind of rootkit DRM, as many, many people are currently saying it does.
I guess gamer attention span can really hold onto a few keywords and phrases at a time.
… I say this all as person who is vehemently against kernel level AC, who has been pointing out for 4 years, that almost all existing anti cheat systems currently have at least one game that implements their AC, on linux, without using kernel level anything… it is entirely possible to do AC without kernel level shit, even on linux, and has been for at least 4 years. EAC and BattleEye have supported linux for 4 years, but nearly no game that uses them has actually used this feature/available and offered support.
I am glad that this level of hate is finally being directed at shitty EULAs, but lets at least get our facts straight, or actually provide some hitherto unseen evidence that Borderlands has had some kind of sleeper malware in it for at least the past two years, just waiting to be activated by a TOS update to every single Take Two game.
Ledivin@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
That. The screenshot you posted. That is what’s going on.
Showroom7561@lemmy.ca 3 weeks ago
Pirates are winning over my empathy.
thermal_shock@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
They’ve been my best friend for years
mrbubblesort@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
Piracy never gave me up, never let me down
Onyxonblack@lemm.ee 3 weeks ago
I apparently love downvotes but here goes: All the Borderlands games (annoying childish cell-shaded skinner-box) and everything Gearbox is and has ever created it utter shit. The CEO is a garbage person, and thier dealings with Epic is Capitalist-Oink-Piggy shite! "“FUCK YOU 2K & GEARBOX, AND FUCK YOU BORDERLANDS!”
red@sopuli.xyz 3 weeks ago
Apart from the politics, the Borderlands games themselves are hardly utter shit for the most part.
Vanilla_PuddinFudge@infosec.pub 3 weeks ago
The writing is garbage but,… it’s a game for edgy teenagers. It would.
The gameplay for me is Diablo with guns. It would suck for anyone not into that. If anyone isn’t into that, don’t buy Borderlands games.
propitiouspanda@lemmy.cafe 2 weeks ago
I think they’re pretty terrible.
I’ve tried multiple times to get in to them and I’ve come to the conclusion they’re just for a gamer with lower standards than me.
This is also based off of the games that I see borderlands fans like that I think suck ass.
ms_lane@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
everything Gearbox is and has ever created it utter shit
OpFor was good, Blue Shift was alright too.
Everything since they stole the whole idea of Borderlands has been bad though.
psycho_driver@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
You’re definitely right about Pitchford or w/e dingleberry’s name is.
propitiouspanda@lemmy.cafe 2 weeks ago
Hear hear!
Borderlands is a neat concept, but it’s ruined by an awful studio and reddit-tier ‘humor.’
It was nice to see Battleborn fail because honestly that’s what the studio deserves.
Korhaka@sopuli.xyz 2 weeks ago
Yes, but it should still be illegal for a company to do this. Don’t let them blame the users for accepting this bullshit. As Louis Rossmann would say, they have the mentality of a rapist.
sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
Yep, I am jumping in with you on this one.
The cell-shaded art style? Not the problem, imo.
The problem is the just astoundingly terrible writing, immensely insufferable characters, and astonishingly brain dead gameplay.
Why have weapon balance of tactically interesting scenarios or any real sense of progression in gameplay when we can just procedurally generate guns and do everything we can to make everything into roughly the same level of bullet sponge with auto levelling?
They are the lowest common denominator of co-op shooter games.
dil@lemmy.zip 3 weeks ago
Except lawbreakers but he tainted it by supporting it and made ppl against it
Crankenstein@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
Bro thank you for mentioning Lawbreakers. Such a fun game that was cut short.
propitiouspanda@lemmy.cafe 2 weeks ago
Lawbreakers was made by Boss Key studios, headed by Cliff Blezsinski who was the guy behind Gears of War.
You may be thinking of Battleborn, which was made by Gearbox.
MentalEdge@sopuli.xyz 2 weeks ago
I’m sorry, but Battleborn was brilliant. Deadlock is the first game to re-capture (and expand on) the mix of mechanics Battleborn put together.
Didn’t stop Gearbox from shutting it down so that no-one who bought it could ever play again. Not even the story campaign.
Omega_Jimes@lemmy.ca 2 weeks ago
I just don’t understand anticheat or copy protection on PvE games. I can understand it if you don’t want to play against a cheater, but this is a cooperative shooter.
porous_grey_matter@lemmy.ml 2 weeks ago
See you’re looking at it from the point of view that it would serve the player experience, but that’s not what it’s for, it’s to mine your data
ILikeBoobies@lemmy.ca 2 weeks ago
We haven’t gotten another Middle Earth game because it had an online requirement
Now look where we are
thermal_shock@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
It’s for precedent on future games and to sneak in shit for later. Wittle down your expectations and privacy, make it “normal”.
anarchiddy@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
IIRC Borderlands 3 scales the value of loot to the game’s difficulty setting, with some mechanics aimed at encouraging players to join online coops at high difficulties in order to earn more valuable loot. I imagine cheats undermine that intent, and I also imagine borderlands 4 might be aiming at a pay to play scheme.
I’m guessing this EULA is being used for all their IP with the intent of taking advantage of it in the future.
Sabata11792@ani.social 2 weeks ago
Need to protect those purchasing opportunities from cheaters.
MonkderVierte@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
🏴☠️ is free and without shenanigans.
nutsack@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
giving root level access to russian crackers instead
RepleteLocum@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 weeks ago
If you go to the right sites you won’t get any malicious code. Stop spreading corpo propaganda.
FauxLiving@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Shh, the kids don’t want to hear about the dark side of free things (oh hey, a new Meta service!)
/s
sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
Damn, its such a shame you can’t run a crack in a vm, or on linux via WINE and Proton, aw shucks.
MonkderVierte@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
Over wine?
slaacaa@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
REDACTED@infosec.pub 2 weeks ago
I sometimes wonder what will happen when EAC, that has root access to millions of PCs, gets compromised or grunty employee and pushes malicious update
seralth@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
[deleted]UltraMasculine@sopuli.xyz 2 weeks ago
That’s right. I’m not lying at all when I say that none of my friends care about privacy. It’s actually quite frustrating.
SoftestSapphic@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
It probably spys on you already.
The company that makes the Overwolf game launcher is an Israli cyber security company that gets money from the US.
epicstove@lemmy.ca 2 weeks ago
Crowdstrike 2.0
DrGrout@lemmynsfw.com 3 weeks ago
Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. Owns Rockstar Games, Zynga and 2K. So if that’s all their games, it includes at least these: Bioshock series, Borderlands series, Civilization series, Grand Theft Auto series, Mafia series, Max Payne series, NBA 2K series, PGA Tour 2K series, Red Dead series, WWE 2K series and XCOM series.
Amazing stuff!
damdy@lemm.ee 3 weeks ago
That’s just a list of games that used to be good and now suck.
DaddleDew@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
A government that cares for is people would ban this shit and procecute any company trying to find ways around it.
EnsignPacts@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
I checked the Steam depots. It seems the game files haven’t been updated since 2022. All that seems to have changed is some license agreement in February. Seems to be a thing across take two games, and not specific to borderlands 2.
Basically nothing has changed in real terms for this game. Maybe borderlands 4 might have draconian DRM, who knows.
tomi000@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
They can drop updates anytime after they made sure to have you accept the spyware.
LainTrain@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
Yikes. Is the review in the screenshot true? They got root anticheat? Or rootkit data harvesting?
Diurnambule@jlai.lu 2 weeks ago
He said they added a kernel level anticheat in the TOS which is true. But they seem to have not included it in the game yet. But they and and by possedong the game you allow them to.
FauxLiving@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
No, it’s misinformation and people who uncritically repeat things without verification.
I’ve had the game installed for years and have to manually apply updates, there hasn’t been one.
All they’ve done is make their TOS universal across all of their games.
W3dd1e@lemmy.zip 3 weeks ago
Is this because Embracer sold Borderlands to Take-Two last year?
zecg@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
It’s because Take Two came out with a fuck-you-in-the-ass EULA for all their games. I actually look forward to boycotting someone, there’s too much free and discounted shit everywhere
solsangraal@lemmy.zip 3 weeks ago
the game’s store page doesn’t mention that it requires root access, like it does for some other games. am i missing something?
lath@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
Maybe it’s hidden in the in-game eula and they’re using their launcher to collect all that info before we even get to agree or disagree.
reksas@sopuli.xyz 2 weeks ago
They added spyware.
Here is excerpt from the tos, shared by user in steam reviews of the game.
important Info in Terms of Service:
• Mods are a bannable offense • Display of Cheats/Exploits is bannable • Forced arbitration clause and a waiver of class action and jury trial rights for all users residing in the United States and any other territory other than Australia, Switzerland, The United Kingdom, or The Territories of The European Economic Area • You can be banned for using a VPN while connecting to online servers • Cannot access game content on a Virtual PC Collected Data Types: • Identifiers / Contact Information: Name, user name, gamertag, postal and email address, phone number, unique IDs, mobile device ID, platform ID, gaming service ID, advertising ID (IDFA, Android ID) and IP address • Protected Characteristics: Age and gender • Commercial Information: Purchase and usage history and preferences, including gameplay information • Billing Information: Payment information (credit / debit card information) and shipping address • Internet / Electronic Activity: Web / app browsing and gameplay information related to the Services; information about your online interaction(s) with the Services or our advertising; and details about the games and platforms you use and other information related to installed applications • Device and Usage Data: Device type, software and hardware details, language settings, browser type and version, operating system, and information about how users use and interact with the Services (e.g., content viewed, pages visited, clicks, scrolls) • Profile Inferences: Inferences made from your information and web activity to help create a personalized profile so we can identify goods and services that may be of interest • Audio / Visual Information: Account photos, images, and avatars, audio information via chat features and functionality, and gameplay recordings and video footage (such as when you participate in playtesting) • Sensitive Information: Precise location information (if you allow the Services to collect your location), account credentials (user name and password), and contents of communications via chat features and functionality.
I wouldnt touch anything this company has produced.
FauxLiving@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
They added spyware to it.
No, they didn’t.
Just because something sounds outrageous, doesn’t mean it is true.
Borderlands 2 hasn’t been updated since 2022:
Borderlands - Last updated: 3 August 2016 Borderlands 2 - Last updated: 4 August 2022 Borderlands 3 - Last updated: 8 August 2024
No Borderlands titles include anti-cheat: areweanticheatyet.com/?search=borderlands
Here is another person, 7 years ago trying the exact same outrage-based engagement farming strategy of linking a TOS update and implying a nefarious intent: www.reddit.com/…/take_two_a_spyware_apocalypse/ It’s exactly the same “Take two is spying on you!!!” content and yet, none of the Borderlands games have added spyware and none have added kernel anti-cheat.
Also, if you read the 2018 and 2025 TOS you will notice notice that the information that they collect in the 2025 TOS ( www.take2games.com/legal/en-US/ ) is exactly the same as it was in 2018.
TL;DR - Just because you read it on the Internet, doesn’t mean it is true.
JoMiran@lemmy.ml 3 weeks ago
I only play AAA games on GeForce Now (cloud). If the game can’t run on my Linux system or on the cloud, I ain’t touching it. Also, there are so many wonderful games that do not require a colonoscopy into your personal data to be played.
LemmyFeed@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
Ok so that explains the bad reviews, but why is steam giving the game away for free? Also BL3 is heavily discounted
Guidy@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
LOL. I loved the Borderlands franchise, until Epic made their evil dog shit app store and the Borderlands devs sold out to them. Motherfuck Borderlands forever now. Thanks for the warning so I don’t accidentally reinstall any of it from Steam.
Darkcoffee@sh.itjust.works 3 weeks ago
I noticed too.
mcv@lemm.ee 2 weeks ago
If a game, application, device or EULA changes in a way you find unacceptable, after you’ve purchased it, you should be able to get your initial purchase price back. And if you paid with your data, you need to be able to demand they delete all your data. I think that law would be entirely reasonable and would do a lot of good.
TheObviousSolution@lemm.ee 2 weeks ago
So 50% score loss because of a permissive EULA, got it …
I’ll just leave this in the “Pitchforks against Pitchford” and “Woke series, must downvote” folder. Call me back when they do actually include a rootkit in their games. If only there was some way to get statistics of the people getting outraged because of posts in a subreddit community and the people who don’t have a problem with rootkits installed by their favorite MMOs.
NeryK@sh.itjust.works 3 weeks ago
On one side of the ring, greedy corps which want to profile you better than the NSA does. On the other, drama-hungry and social networks-fueled outrage culture.
That’s how an old game giveaway backfires and becomes the scandal of the day.
vortexal@sopuli.xyz 3 weeks ago
Is that also applicable to the Linux version, assuming that Aspyr did actually port the game to Linux and not just use Wine or something?
KneeTitts@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
Why isnt Steam banning them? Munny?
RadioFreeArabia@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I didn’t enjoy the Handsome Collection but free is free. Thanks for sharing.
BigBananaDealer@lemm.ee 2 weeks ago
lemmy yet again falls for the ragebait hook line and sinker
L0rdMathias@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
Y’all really going to freak out over the new paralegal being told to update the EULAs and lazily hitting the update all button?
Dagamant@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
You literally posted the answer to your question. Here is an expansion of the details.
Image
Goodeye8@piefed.social 3 weeks ago
I haven't read the new TOS but if this review is correct it looks like a GDPR nightmare for them. Good luck to them explaining why they need to collect all that personal data.
raltoid@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
The “collected data types” in that comment seems to be copy/pasted from the actual one:
www.take2games.com/privacy/en-US/
avattar@lemmy.sdf.org 3 weeks ago
That might be US only, where the companies have freedom to get all the customer’s data and do with it as they will.
Vanilla_PuddinFudge@infosec.pub 3 weeks ago
Most people don’t care about privacy.
Vinstaal0@feddit.nl 3 weeks ago
Do we know this is a thing in the EU?
moon@lemmy.sdf.org 3 weeks ago
Due to Steam’s tos updates a few months ago, isn’t take-two opening itself up to a massive lawsuit?
SaharaMaleikuhm@feddit.org 3 weeks ago
No idea, but I think it would be funny, so I’m all for it and hope you are right.
Nephalis@discuss.tchncs.de 3 weeks ago
Hm… Ok. Thats crazy. Someone wants to create a new branch of income ot seems.
Thats a ficking shame. Now I need to reconsider my plans to buy Borderlands4.
But how will they do it? Which information is gathered from which source? Most of my accounts only hold as little informations as possible. Also my Os know nothing about me. My MS account too.
On the other hand my steam 2FA need some mobile information.
Fiivemacs@lemmy.ca 3 weeks ago
Checkout Jump Ship? It’s some weird borderlands, Star citizen, (insert other generic shooter) type game. Pretty neat, was recommended to me by a shooter fanatic friend of mine. I trust his shooting game opinion
store.steampowered.com/app/1757300/Jump_Ship/
Dagamant@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
Unless you use Linux, your OS knows a ton about you. On top of that, with root access to your computer they can do whatever they want and if their system gets hacked you become a member of a bot farm or crypto mine.