It does, but the thinking here is that the dasher basically loses money taking no tip orders. Which in my Nordic mind is a fucked up business model. A living wage should be the minimum requirement.
As if the tip actually goes to the dashers.
Submitted 11 months ago by STRIKINGdebate2@lemmy.world to mildlyinfuriating@lemmy.world
https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/46566125-08ae-4312-8988-cf62c4c2dc6e.jpeg
Comments
ninjan@lemmy.mildgrim.com 11 months ago
scrubbles@poptalk.scrubbles.tech 11 months ago
Look at the socialist over here guys, over here in America we let our children go without lunch if they can’t afford it. How else will they learn that they need to be a productive member of society?
WhatAmLemmy@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Frankly, I wouldn’t want to live under some authoritarian healthcare system that no longer allowed me the freedom to weigh my options between crippling debt and death… Variety is the spice of life!
TheLowestStone@lemmy.world 11 months ago
That’s right, and the poor grades and stunted growth they’ll experience as a result of that hunger will build character.
WhatAmLemmy@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Frankly, I wouldn’t want to live under some authoritarian healthcare system that no longer allowed me the freedom to weigh my options between crippling debt and death… Variety is the spice of life!
phillaholic@lemm.ee 11 months ago
It’s worse. They aren’t employees. They are independent contractors who in many cases assume all liability and have to pay their own payroll taxes. Most aren’t reporting it to their insurance company, much less thinking about retirement and healthcare. It only really works as a temporary side gig.
zeluko@kbin.social 11 months ago
Under EU-Law you might not fall under independent contractor because most of the income and how you do your job is dictated by a single company.
You automatically fall under regulations for employers and get those protections too. Company that try to do this have to tread very carefully not to fall into that.
ignotum@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Get a minimum amount of compensation for doing a job? Do you hear yourself? That’s madness!
scarabic@lemmy.world 11 months ago
A fine idea. Sadly, no one in that restaurant is being paid a living wage. It ain’t just the drivers.
FontMasterFlex@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Stop fucking using these extortion apps.
Asafum@feddit.nl 11 months ago
My friend would order food from a different shop that had delivery instead of walking across the fucking street to the place that quite literally was across the street. I could see it from my bedroom window.
Some people will do anything to avoid having to go out and while i’m very similar, I think like 3-4 blocks is my limit lol
spader312@lemmy.world 11 months ago
This is assuming you live in a city and not a suburb
ArcaneSlime@lemmy.dbzer0.com 11 months ago
Tbh I’ll order pizza from the good shop 10min away before I order from the shithole 2min away. The difference? “Good food.”
I always pick up, but still this could be understandable.
areyouevenreal@lemm.ee 11 months ago
Why do you just assume everyone can drive? Plenty of people either don’t have a license or don’t have a car.
scottywh@lemmy.world 11 months ago
It’s definitely true that ignorant people ignore the fact that people with disabilities exist.
FontMasterFlex@lemmy.world 11 months ago
and yet somehow we’ve survived as a species this long. how in the world did we make it without door dash?
Buffaloaf@lemmy.world 11 months ago
“I’m going to the shit food station, you want anything?”
ZeroTHM@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Why? Who’s holding a gun to the head of these drivers and forcing them to work for this gig? The onus isn’t on the customers, it’s on the drivers.
jasondj@ttrpg.network 11 months ago
My guess is either their landlord, their hospital, their bank, or their college. Not an actual gun, just proverbial. A lot of drivers are just desperate to make ends meet however they can.
oatscoop@midwest.social 11 months ago
I’ve used these apps – when I was quarantining because I had Covid, wasn’t in a state to drive, and needed groceries.
FontMasterFlex@lemmy.world 11 months ago
yet SOMEHOW the world got on just fine before them. weird how that works.
Fox@pawb.social 11 months ago
There are times these apps make sense. I crashed my motorcycle doing an ubereats delivery and broke my collarbone, and then used the service myself a bunch of times while healing. Ironic, but that’s life.
Side note for the people wondering what happens when you don’t tip upfront (on UE at least): Prospective drivers see an offer of $4-6 for a job that will take them 45 minutes and say “fuck that” while they slam the ‘no’ button. This will go on for a while until the system is able to find another order on the way to combine it with, or someone accepts it anyway.
Sanyanov@lemmy.world 11 months ago
This entire tipping thing is terrible - including for dashers themselves.
It means dashers income heavily relies on strangers being kind enough to leave some extra.
It means customers are gonna feel bad for not paying more than their order amount.
It means company can employ slave labor for extremely low pay and still have people willing to do this.
Tipping benefits only one party - the companies. We need to stop it.
adrian783@lemmy.world 11 months ago
correct on all parts, it pits dasher against customers. also these companies are still not profitable. that should tell you something.
the truth is that the business model just doesn’t work. if you want to pay drivers actual living wages, delivery fees would have to be more than 20 dollars for each order.
dangblingus@lemmy.dbzer0.com 11 months ago
Stop patronizing restaurants where they don’t pay their staff a livable wage. Stop using delivery apps that don’t pay their drivers a livable wage.
This predatory employers are the problem. Stop rewarding them with your business.
elephantium@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Stop patronizing restaurants where they don’t pay their staff a livable wage.
In most parts of the US, that’s all of them. This position is de facto “never eat out or order takeout”. I’m not sure that’s entirely realistic.
bighatchester@lemmy.world 11 months ago
I don’t use door dash much but I’m pretty in Canada at least there is a mandatory tip . At least there is with skip the dishes that’s what I usually use .
lud@lemm.ee 11 months ago
If it’s mandatory it’s not a tip, it’s a fee, which is perfectly fine and reasonable for a home delivery service but it’s not a tip.
Octopus1348@lemy.lol 11 months ago
The purpose of tips is going away. You are supposed to tip after the delivery for a good service. Now you have to “tip” for a good service.
Emerald@lemmy.world 11 months ago
You have to pay their wages instead of the giant company doing so
Luckybuck@ttrpg.network 11 months ago
If you have to tip to get someone to provide a service your already paying for then that is a bribe.
Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Call it a bribe then. For regular customers there is little difference.
coffeebiscuit@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Modern extortion.
Leviathan@lemmy.world 11 months ago
I stopped ordering from these apps because I got tired of watching the driver take my food on a tour of my city and having it arrive cold and wrong.
The last time I went to pick up my food from a restaurant I saw a dagger dasher standing outside a restaurant staring at his phone with food in his hand, I went inside and while I was waiting the dude came back in, dropped the food and asked for another order because the one he took wasn’t tipping.
Fuck this system and fuck these apps, pick up your own food.
Kolanaki@yiffit.net 11 months ago
I stopped using them when I stopped being given free delivery because without the discount, a thing that costs about six bucks suddenly balloons to thirty fucking dollars.
Willy@sh.itjust.works 11 months ago
are you really ordering a six-dollar item to be delivered and expecting it to be reasonable? maybe that’s the issue here. my orders are usually almost $100 and at that point it becomes pretty reasonable. if you live alone its not for you.
HereToLurk@lemmy.world 11 months ago
I had a local burger joint call me up to tell me that the our food was currently, and had been with the driver for the past 30 mins. They knew this because the guy decided to have dinner in the parking lot after picking up our order so I really try to avoid now
dejected_warp_core@lemmy.world 11 months ago
I’m starting to wonder if all that are symptoms of a company using information technology to it’s most powerful extent.
Services like Door Dash couldn’t exist at the current scale, speed, and service without the internet and highly capable phones/laptops/whatever in everyone’s home. It enabled this kind of gig economy service to come out of nowhere, build very rapidly, and disrupt the market before the law or even social norms could ever hope to step in. But as a consequence of all that, the owners cannot help themselves, and continue with their “Greed% speed run” of running a company straight to its conclusion. Every mistake, every error, every bad take, it’s all accelerated right alongside the good stuff. It’s like enshittification on amphetamines.
EldritchFeminity@lemmy.blahaj.zone 11 months ago
I saw somebody saying how these companies are going to start crashing and burning in the next few years because they’ve never been profitable but the low interest rates have allowed them to keep burning new investors money to fake it until they make it. They’ve been following the greed of infinite profits through infinite growth, but that growth suddenly isn’t infinite anymore, and now they’ll be getting to the find out stage after fucking around for so long.
Furbag@lemmy.world 11 months ago
We should really not be normalizing calling money paid in advance to not have your food arrive late/cold a “tip”. It’s extortion.
Tipping culture in America is fucked beyond belief. Pay everybody a fair wage and let’s get rid of tipping so nobody ever has to deal with this bullshit again.
ohlaph@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Exactly. I completely stopped using those food delivery services after the initial lockdown during COVID. They can almost double the price, can get cold food, and the drivers can be rude if they don’t feel you’re tip is adequate. It’s simply not worth it for me.
scarabic@lemmy.world 11 months ago
I used DoorDash today and the add tip screen said that 100% of the tip goes to the driver. I know they got a lot of bad PR for stealing part of the tips some time ago and had to make public statements about improving their policies. Are we saying that even after all that, they’re just outright completely lying?
BigBenis@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Before they also said the driver got 100% but behind the scenes they were essentially subtracting that amount from what they were going to pay the driver originally. Thus the driver technically got 100% of the tip while DD was pocketing the value of it.
Poik@pawb.social 11 months ago
This is tip culture standard. The company is only required to pay enough such that tips plus pay meet minimum wage. CEO’s should have to work for tips given by their employees in order to earn over minimum wage, change my mind.
buzz86us@lemmy.world 11 months ago
I don’t understand why people want food delivery… It is kinda expensive and I don’t get it unless there is a significant discount.
Gutless2615@ttrpg.network 11 months ago
You don’t… understand? That people want food but don’t want to go out? This really isn’t rocket surgery.
GaMEChld@lemmy.world 11 months ago
People place different values on time, money, energy, etc. Just because you find it too expensive for the effort, doesn’t mean someone who has more money and less energy would make the same judgement.
doctorcrimson@lemmy.world 11 months ago
In general fast food and restaurant food are overpriced compared to home made food, and the working class often don’t have time between locations during the day. Also, like 40+% of the population in many developed nations are elderly now.
The reason people splurge on greasy junk food covered in sauce is never because it is a reasonable option, but because it’s an option our monkey brains are willing to make the most sacrifices for.
Gumbyyy@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Is it that hard to understand that some people just value convenience?
winkerjadams@lemmy.dbzer0.com 11 months ago
People are lazy
JayJay@lemmy.world 11 months ago
I think its handy when I’m sick. Just last week i got delivery because i felt so shitty i could barely get out of bed.
Reddfugee42@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Some people have family and/or work obligations and can’t just fuck off for an hour to get a cheeseburger.
adrian783@lemmy.world 11 months ago
no that is the truth, what it doesn’t tell you is that the drivers are paid like 2.50 to 3 bucks per delivery. so tips makes up the majority of their earnings at this point.
Chainweasel@lemmy.world 11 months ago
I don’t think anyone can outright say that they’re lying with any amount of certainly, but it would be very very far from the first time a company got caught in a scandal then just lied about how they’re going to fix it.
Anti_Face_Weapon@lemmy.world 11 months ago
They get 100% of the tip, it’s a legal requirement. The scummy part is the company does this to give you the opportunity NOT to tip, and therefore subsidize the food for shitty people.
Just in case, the few times I have ordered food, I put a dollar or two tip in the app, and add a note saying I’ll give them a cash tip. Usually I’ll give them a 2-4 Dollars more depending. If you’re using these services you need to tip, that’s how they make their livelyhood and feed their families.
june@lemmy.world 11 months ago
It’s worth noting that drivers don’t see the notes until they accept the order.
I used to do the same as you until I dashed for a few months to make ends meet.
I can also tell you that some orders literally cost drivers money to make when the tip is too low. I’ve had countless 25-30 mile round trip orders that paid out $6-7 because the person didn’t tip. I passed on those orders because I would have been paying to deliver them. Drivers need to make about $0.75/mile driven to break even, and most look for $2+\mile. I now look at the distance from the restaurant and tip $2/mile for the one direction. But I’m also in a place where they’re pretty likely to get another order pretty quickly and don’t need to make it a round trip.
Good_morning@lemmynsfw.com 11 months ago
So they pay less now than before?
ShunkW@lemmy.world 11 months ago
That is a legal requirement. But myself and others got a settlement from Amazon after they stole our tips for years. I got a check for $790 that they kept from me. I dunno if DD ever got caught doing the same, but businesses do try to get away with this stuff.
tory@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Can they reduce hourly pay based on tips received, as a loophole?
Anti_Face_Weapon@lemmy.world 11 months ago
No
zyros@lemmy.world 11 months ago
I’m a dasher. Yes, drivers do get tips, and our livelihoods depend on people tipping. Yes, you should tip, yes, you’re just being cheap if you don’t. Yes, it is bullshit that doordash doesn’t pay us more, yes, tipping culture is bullshit. But you still eat out at your favorite greasy spoon knowing full well the staff depends on tips to pay their rent so you tip them.
If you don’t want to tip, get off your ass and get the food yourself. We’re dying out there and don’t need a hundred 15-mile-0-tip deliveries declined a day dragging down our acceptance rates. Just treat us like fucking humans, ffs. Please. Tip. Your. Drivers.
pyre@lemmy.world 11 months ago
It’s your employer who doesn’t treat you like humans. Stop blaming the customers for it.
Retrograde@lemmy.world 11 months ago
This sentiment is like yelling at a McDonald’s employee simply because you don’t like McDonalds.
If you think Door Dash sucks as a company, just don’t use it then. Using it, then fucking the driver with no tip makes you look like a total prick
feecoomeeq@lemmy.world 11 months ago
If I’m not happy I should drive for it myself? If you’re not happy go change your job
The problem are not the customers, it’s the employers.
Also keep that attitude up - people ordering less, driving by themselves because of the expected tips and you end up redundant.
Kepabar@startrek.website 11 months ago
Solution is stop using delivery services.
BrownianMotion@lemmy.world 11 months ago
For tipping countries like the US, the driver would only get a “has a tip” notification on the order (if they get any information like that at all!) so they can decide. There is no way the driver can see that there is a $40 order with a $4 tip, or a $40 order with a $16 dollar tip. Orders would be ignored all the time, and the service would fail.
Here is AU, there is no tipping, so the drivers get paid like normal people. None of this work for tip bullshit that seems to have survived this long in the US, its incredible that it has gotten this far. Now the US get asked for tips using self-service machines, that is the height of lunacy!
roscoe@startrek.website 11 months ago
All the bullshit with tipping on food delivery apps made me stop using them years ago.
First I hear the apps are stealing tips. Then they’re not stealing tips anymore. Then maybe they’re stealing some of the tips.
To try and avoid all that I tried to use cash. The drivers don’t get their base rate reduced and they get the entire, non-reportable cash tip.
Then my food started taking twice as long and arriving cold because the drivers thought I was stiffing them. My theory is the apps do this (pre-tipping) on purpose to discourage cash and after-tipping so they can lower what they pay the driver and they’ll still accept the order because they see the higher after tip amount. So now the apps might not be technically stealing tips, but they’re using up front tips to allow them to reduce their shitty base rate for everyone.
Now if want delivery is pizza, Chinese, or one of the few other places with their own drivers. I’ve had this policy for years now and I don’t see myself ever going back unless it’s an emergency.
Bonus to me: all my takeout/delivery is now 20-30% cheaper. Everyone should really take a look at the inflated prices they’re paying and decide if it’s really worth saving a short drive.
dangblingus@lemmy.dbzer0.com 11 months ago
People on all these astro-turfed anti-tipping posts always have the same AI generated talking points. Rarely ever do these people actually talk about STOPPING using the apps and STOPPING going to restaurants. Stop making “tip culture” the fault of the worker. It is 100% on the business owner for not paying their staff appropriately for the work performed. Not tipping rewards the business and punishes the worker.
matto@lemm.ee 11 months ago
Fuck tips
_ffiresticks_@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Reason I don’t use these services is the tip is expected in advance. Bring me my food hot and in a timely fashion and I’ll give you a good tip. I’m not paying you ahead of time to take too long bringing me cold food. I’d rather pick it up myself.
kamen@lemmy.world 11 months ago
That’s just the opposite of how tipping is supposed to work. If I’m happy with the service, I’ll tip (and I’m far, far from the US - in a place where you don’t get frowned upon if you don’t tip) - and by “happy” I don’t even mean something extraordinary - but I can’t know if I will be happy in advance. Moreover I’d prefer tipping in cash as opposed to through an app - this way I know the money can go directly in the worker’s pocket, not in the company’s.
wildcardology@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Damn, tips used to be given after a job well done not before.
bonnetbee@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Sometimes it frightens me to see how things in the US are working. This crap will come to europe sooner or later, the US capitalism is just a few years ahead.
pyre@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Tips are completely optional, but it would be a shame if something happened to your order. Would you like to tip so we can, uh… protect you from such unfortunate circumstances?
FuglyDuck@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Add a note in delivery instructions “cash tip”.
It also gives the advantage of tipping less if it takes too long ;)
wander1236@sh.itjust.works 11 months ago
The tip does go to the driver
agnomeunknown@lemmy.world 11 months ago
It’s a bad system but you are a bad person if you don’t tip.
dingus@lemmy.world 11 months ago
? I thought it did though. I’ve read online stories of Dashers being annoyed at low tips.
possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip 11 months ago
I don’t use doordash but don’t be a dick and leave no tip. That’s such a selfish thing to do.
TheAlbatross@lemmy.blahaj.zone 11 months ago
Cash tipping is king for just this reason.
tabularasa@lemmy.world 11 months ago
I know another industry that asks to pre tip before services rendered. Asian Spas… In both cases, you can get fucked.
xX_fnord_Xx@lemmy.world 11 months ago
I swear I read somewhere that there are parts of Europe were tipping isn’t required, but if you want extra good service you’ll tip before being served if you want good attentive service.
Please correct me if I’m wrong, I can’t remember where I read it.
danikpapas@lemm.ee 11 months ago
Can you decrease it afterwards?
Conyak@lemmy.tf 11 months ago
And I don’t think it makes your order arrive any faster.
Soltros@lemmy.world 11 months ago
They really need to stop calling it a tip. It’s a bid for service.
wesker@lemmy.sdf.org 11 months ago
Drivers shouldn’t be allowed to see the tip amount prior to delivery completion. That, or tipping shouldn’t be allowed until after completion. I hate this more recent model of tipping before receiving service. Because as you said, it’s a bid for service, not an acknowledgement of good service.
Nollij@sopuli.xyz 11 months ago
Flip it around - why would you work a job, any job, where you don’t know your pay until after the work is done?
“Tipping” is rich-people speak for shifting the expense (and blame) to the customer.
june@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Drivers can’t see the tip, but they are given an estimated payout (of the number presented is different from the estimate, it’ll always pay higher than the estimate) for each order.
If this wasn’t the case, there wouldn’t be any drivers. Drivers are contractors and DoorDash bids orders out until someone accepts it. No contractor in their right mind will accept a job not knowing how much it’ll pay.
If tipping weren’t allowed until after delivery, most people wouldn’t tip. You have the option to raise or lower your tip already, but have you ever gone in there and changed your tip after you received your order? Most people don’t. In the 6 or so months I was delivering, I only had one tip adjusted.
yamanii@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Do you get your tip back too if the driver steals your food? Here we have Rappi that also asks for tip before the delivery so I never gave it out.
Mango@lemmy.world 11 months ago
No fuck you. I’m not gonna sit around taking all the shitty orders that just ruin my car and waste my time for $3 just because you think I should have a gambling problem for your benefit.
Lucidlethargy@sh.itjust.works 11 months ago
I’ve tipped a ton and gotten very cold food numerous times. I absolutely agree, and really hate this model.
NMS@startrek.website 11 months ago
I’m really starting to feel like some of the people in threads like this who don’t get this simple concept you stated are just experiencing cognitive dissonance about the fact that they themselves are happy to exploit the workers because they don’t want to tip. (If I’m working for myself, and you hire me to perform a service, then I am your worker. 🤣 Fuck you, pay me.)