Tips are no longer tips and companies have successfully forced us to pay their employees for them.
It’s not the customer’s fault. In addition to us paying their salaries we have to trust some random to do a good job with zero evidence they will.
Comment on As if the tip actually goes to the dashers.
Nollij@sopuli.xyz 9 months agoFlip it around - why would you work a job, any job, where you don’t know your pay until after the work is done?
“Tipping” is rich-people speak for shifting the expense (and blame) to the customer.
TrickDacy@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Rivalarrival@lemmy.today 9 months ago
If they don’t fulfill your expectations, you inform DoorDash. They hand out full refunds like candy.
That “rando” is not a DoorDash employee. You’re hiring a contractor through a broker, not asking a restaurant to send a waitress to your table.
The employee-waitress can’t refuse you service without getting herself fired, but a contractor-driver can tell you exactly where and how far to shove your bullshit offer.
TrickDacy@lemmy.world 9 months ago
I don’t understand what point you’re trying to make. I realize they aren’t employees. That’s the root of the problem. They should be employees and paid by their employer. I do not appreciate Doordash offloading its responsibility of paying and “disciplining” its workers onto customers. Do you honestly have no problem with that?
If they can’t run their business that way, then that clearly shows that it’s an exploitative and shitty business model that shouldn’t exist in the first place.
They hand out refunds like candy.
That is assuming that I have the time and remember to do this, not to mention that I shouldn’t have to do it.
Rivalarrival@lemmy.today 9 months ago
That’s the root of the problem. They should be employees and paid by their employer.
I strongly disagree. Employment is not a mutually beneficial relationship. Employment is an encumbrance on the worker, especially a non-union worker. As an employer, DoorDash can demand exclusivity. DoorDash would be allowed to add a non-compete clause, prohibiting employees from performing courier work on the side, or for competing platforms. I don’t want my working hours dictated to me on a schedule. I don’t want to have to negotiate time off or finding someone to cover my shift.
Employment would allow them to force drivers to take all “assignments”. I like being able to refuse service to a particular vendor or abusive customer. I don’t want to be forced to wait in the drive thru line for 45 minutes at a Taco Bell in a high-crime area.
Courier service is menial labor. When I look at other large businesses that utilize menial labor, I am not particularly struck by the equity of their employment agreements. I don’t see “employment” working out too well for the workers of Walmart, for example.
I do not appreciate Doordash offloading its responsibility of paying and “disciplining” its workers onto customers. Do you honestly have no problem with that?
No, I don’t have a problem with that. I think DoorDash retains too much control over pay and discipline of workers, and interferes too much between customers and workers.
DoorDash punishes workers for refusing orders, by downgrading their priority for higher paying offers. When a customer insists on placing a $3 offer for a 9-mile delivery, every driver in the area will reject it. That single shitty order results in every active driver having their “Acceptance Rate” stat lowered. DoorDash should not be giving customers this particular power over drivers. It is the customer who should be “punished” for making an offer so far below minimum wage.
wesker@lemmy.sdf.org 9 months ago
There’s nothing to flip, gratuity and wages should be separate things. And living wages should be paid.
possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip 9 months ago
Well no, tipping is how you show your appreciation for a service. You are bring selfish if you don’t at least tip a minimal amount.
snooggums@kbin.social 9 months ago
A reasonable required base level of pay for service is necessary before a tip is showing appreciation.
possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip 9 months ago
There is a base level of pay. That doesn’t mean you get to hate the poor person who is stuck serving you. You should appreciate what others do for you.
snooggums@kbin.social 9 months ago
Where did you get the idea that wanting reasonable wages before tips means I hate servers?
Learn to read.
zeluko@kbin.social 9 months ago
Please tip your plumber, i mean you do appreciate their work dont you?
possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip 9 months ago
The way this comment section is going I’d expect them to beet the plummer.
mx_smith@lemmy.world 9 months ago
My sons a plumber and he just got $100 tip for doing a job, but it was right before Christmas and the client was really rich. I don’t condone tipping but if I do tip it’s usually in cash
danc4498@lemmy.world 9 months ago
The point of tipping (to the tipper) is to show appreciation for the quality of service you received. If service is shit, you don’t get tipped as much.
Tipping before you get the service means quality of service plays no part in the transaction.
Cornerspace@lemmy.world 9 months ago
America’s view that tipping is normal needs to change.
How about an adequate wage instead, like the rest of the developed world?
Bonehead@kbin.social 9 months ago
They already know the pay. The pay isn't enough without the tip, then maybe they should consider getting a different job.
limonfiesta@lemmy.world 9 months ago
You realize that gig economy is the neoliberal slang for a poverty class work, right?
So you’re criticizing people who are forced by the system in which we live, to be ordered around by a fucking algorithm, and then take abuse from people who have enough money to NOT work in the gig economy, but no where near enough to actually own the servant class they get off on abusing.
Bonehead@kbin.social 9 months ago
You realize that the gig economy is not my responsibility, right? I'm not criticizing the workers for being underpaid. I'm criticizing the exploiters for underpaying their workers. If you can't pay your workers enough, that is not my fault. You are not entitled to exploit anyone for your personal gain.
ThunderWhiskers@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Study: When questioned about continuing to work for poverty wages, gig workers across the nation respond with resounding “guess I just didn’t think about it because I’m so goddamned stupid” ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ .
smotherlove@sh.itjust.works 9 months ago
I agree with you completely but at the same time I have disdain for gig workers because they all seem to operate under an entirely different set of traffic laws and social conventions. At least where I live.
Kase@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Wdym by social conventions?
sorrybookbroke@sh.itjust.works 9 months ago
If you think tipping, a current necessity to ensure proper pay, is not something you should be doing why don’t you stop using food services which expect tipping?
They won’t stop underpaying because you don’t too they’ll just blame the worker.
Bonehead@kbin.social 9 months ago
A tip before service is not a tip. It's coercion. Maybe we should consider adding regulation to this entire industry to ensure fair pay.
Centillionaire@kbin.social 9 months ago
I’m all for ending tipping culture. And a tip before service may not be a tip, but as long as this is how it’s set up, it’s the current way we must do things.
Just like if you want someone to do some handy work for you, you can go on Craigslist and say “need someone to do ‘x’. Will pay $150” and workers who search on there for jobs will decide whether or not it’s worth it for them to do the job. This job just so happens to be giving you food or a ride.
betheydocrime@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Ok, call your extra payment whatever name you want, and get the ball rolling on legislating new regulations to ensure fair pay. They deserve to get paid more, and when/if those regulations go through the drivers will have a better future.
That didn’t answer the question, though. We both agree that drivers deserve to get paid more, so why not open up your wallet and start paying them more now? Why wait months or years for legislation to go through to force you to pay more, when the power to make sure your driver is paid well is sitting in the palm of your hand today? Your individual act of tipping or not tipping will do nothing to address the system at large, but it will do everything to ensure your driver driver gets paid fairly for the labor they perform while they serve you.
cynar@lemmy.world 9 months ago
In the UK (and a lot of Europe) tipping is completely optional. We only tip for exceptional service or if we’ve made the server’s life difficult. It’s an optional extra for the server.
At this point, it’s so endemic, in the US, that it likely needs to be fixed from the governmental level, but that doesn’t make it something that can’t be complained about.
Devi@kbin.social 9 months ago
American workers rights really scare me. Tipping being allowed to subsidise wages is awful, but so is the safety legislation, and child labour laws. We have issues in the UK obviously, but they're relatively minor in comparison.
wesker@lemmy.sdf.org 9 months ago
It’s only expected because consumers with a similar mentality to yours keep supplying the bandaid. That, and poor local and federal regulation.
driveway@lemmy.zip 9 months ago
take it up with the state you elected. If they allow you to work for a wage that’s not enough to live on, and you don’t get a different job - that’s a you problem not a customer problem.
cynar@lemmy.world 9 months ago
It’s a poverty trap. Your choice often isn’t “get another job” or stay there. It’s do this job, and survive another month, or quit and be not be able to afford basic necessities (like rent, or food). Unfortunately, the job can leave you too mentally and/or physically exhausted to properly hunt or reskill for another job. It’s a catch 22 situation.
Interestingly, COVID actually helped a lot of people on that front. The government income support, and enforced rest let people stop, breathe and think. Many then went on to do exactly what you suggested. Unfortunately there’s always more to be drawn into the trap.
phillaholic@lemm.ee 9 months ago
Personally I tip 20% or more at most Restaurants. I draw the line at tipping before service as well. They aren’t even pretending anymore that it’s about service.
That said, I don’t use any Gig economy service; I don’t believe in their business models at all, and part of what you are saying is why. Workers shouldn’t be taking on the burden, companies should.
I do tip at some pre-service places that I’m a regular at, but I’ve run into some pretty ridiculous stores asking for tips where nothing warrants it. I try to be fair, but it is getting ridiculous.
SweetRiot@lemmy.world 9 months ago
One of the most ridiculous tipping related thing happened a couple of weeks ago. I was ordering some pantry items from an online store that shipped to me (shipping fee was separate, based on how much is purchased). They had a vinegar that I couldn’t find locally or online elsewhere, and since they are a small business, I decided to order a few other things to support them even though all their prices were a bit higher than other places. When checking out, they asked for a 20-25% tip to help support their small business. That just made me mad. Never going to shop from them again.
ElleChaise@kbin.social 9 months ago
Practically nobody does uber as their main job, they do it because they either want/need extra money, or are struggling to survive at all. I know uberers, none of them would choose the job, but they can't find other work. There's an intentional lack of employment in this country to keep the workers moving forward; "Do for us, or end up like those people".
Bonehead@kbin.social 9 months ago
If your business requires you to exploit your workers in order to make a profit, then your business doesn't deserve to exist. Making excuses for the exploiters changes nothing.
Okokimup@lemmy.world 9 months ago
If the business doesn’t deserve to exist, why do customers keep supporting them? Why is the onus only on the workers to suffer?
Rivalarrival@lemmy.today 9 months ago
The pay is about $2 per order, regardless of mileage. Dashers can typically complete 2-3 orders per hour, and pay for their own fuel. The base pay is absolutely not worth it.
Bonehead@kbin.social 9 months ago
They are paid approximately $4 to $6 per hour, and yet some people are still defending the practice and asking customers to pay extra on top of the food and the $10+ delivery charge...
Rivalarrival@lemmy.today 9 months ago
Given their compensation model, all I can say is that if you are not willing to tip, and/or you are not willing to tip ahead of time, you absolutely should not use the service at all.