Because we value humans much higher than animals.
Why is society at large okay with euthanasia for pets but not for humans?
Submitted 2 weeks ago by als@lemmy.blahaj.zone to [deleted]
Comments
remon@ani.social 2 weeks ago
Successful_Try543@feddit.org 2 weeks ago
^* human life, not humans. Being confined like a potted plant is considered acceptable for a person in a coma or with a severe disabilities, but not for a pet.
tyler@programming.dev 2 weeks ago
Uh the number of people crating their pets seems to disagree with this assertion.
muxika@piefed.muxika.org 2 weeks ago
At least in the States, I believe it’s for religious and financial reasons. Correct me if I’m wrong, but allowing someone to off themselves could be condemning them to hell. Also, to be cynical, medically assisted “checking out” is the easier, cheaper way out, instead of burning through money in a hospital.
Personally, I don’t see anything wrong with ending the suffering of a terminal illness. Prolonged suffering is unnecessary, and a person should have the right to go out on their own terms.
WoodScientist@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Much of it comes from Christian theology.
Suicide has long been considered one of, if not the, worst possible sins in Christianity. At least in the Catholic tradition, sins can be forgiven by confessing your sins to a priest and having them absolved. But you can’t do this with suicide. Per Christian theology, even a murderer or child molester can some day repent, beg forgiveness, and be forgiven of their sins. They won’t be absolved from the earthly consequences of their actions, but they’ll be forgiven in the next life. That is a core message of Christianity - no actions are truly irredeemable as long as you still draw breath.
But with suicide, this isn’t possible. You can’t confess your sins after you’re dead, and suicide means that your last act on Earth will be a mortal sin. I suppose you could maybe do confession along with assisted suicide. Maybe you have a priest on hand, swallow the poison, and then immediately confess your sin. But most religious scholars would likely argue that doesn’t work. Your contrition has to be genuine for it to count.
Anyway, pardon the digression. But this really is the root of it. Even in modern Western societies. Even among people who aren’t themselves active Christians. Even among those who’ve never stepped inside a church. Secular Western society is still heavily influenced by Christian philosophy. A strong aversion to suicide in any form is a part of this. For most Christians, voluntarily signing up for euthanasia is the easiest direct path to eternal damnation that one can achieve. The only quicker more direct way would be a murder-suicide. We’ve never had that same worry with animals. Christian theology doesn’t assign souls to animals. And even if it did, they would have no moral blame for us choosing to put them down.
Siegfried@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
It sounds plausible, until you see the map of countries that have some sort of legalized euthanasia. The only few that do have it are Christian or christian heavily influenced countries.
DeathByBigSad@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
Lets be honest, most humans do not view pets as equals to a human. Valuing our own species over others is just part of our biology. (not saying that I agree with this view)
If people had the legal responsibility to keep paying thousands or tens of thousands (or potentially more) to keep a pet alive at its senior years, then like… I bet like 50% of pet owners will either become bankrupt or go to jail for animal cruelty.
Laws are just written with humans prioritized… I mean… humans have healthcare¹, pets do not.
A human in an emergency situation arriving in a hospital, and they are legally required to give treatment even if the person cannot pay at the time¹, a vet can legally refuse to treat a pet in an emergency until the owner pays (not saying that would refuse, but they could).
(¹restrictions apply, varies by country)
One could argue that if euthanasia is legal, then there would be situations of: “Hey, granny is kinda taking too much resouces… maybe we should just pull the life support?” or “Okay my child has cancer and takes up too much of my money, and all this money would be wasted if the treatment fails, I’m gonna talk to the doctor and end this parasite once and for all”
Ice@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
One could argue that if euthanasia is legal, then there would be situations of: “Hey, granny is kinda taking too much resouces… maybe we should just pull the life support?” or “Okay my child has cancer and takes up too much of my money, and all this money would be wasted if the treatment fails, I’m gonna talk to the doctor and end this parasite once and for all”
Which is exactly why I’m in favour of euthanasia for humans on a moral level (people should be able to decide their own fate) but against it on a societal level (it will likely result in people getting pressured into “choosing” death.
The harm of the people who are unable to choose death (a.k.a commit suicide) on their own suffering is a lesser evil compared to people who want to live being pressured into dying (in my view).
desertdruid@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 weeks ago
Right?! For example in Canada they have “MAID” (Medical Assistance in Dying) and it’s a good start but recently they tried to add mental disorders to it and it’s really itchy for me.
bufalo1973@piefed.social 2 weeks ago
Short answer: religion.
“Only God can take a life”… except when it an heretic, a non believer, a sinner, …
Killing believers = sin
Killing non believers = " the work of God”
And pets are animals and “you can do as you please”.
variablenine@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 weeks ago
It’s honestly kind of depressing. I went all out for my dog’s end of life care, ensuring it was as dignified as possible and he was as comfortable as he could be, and I hate the idea that if I were to ever come down with Alzheimer’s or something, instead of going on my own terms in the comfort of my home with people I know and love, I would instead be kept alive as long as possible and then probably die with indignity, terrified and confused and not recognizing anyone around me or even my own self.
On one hand I am glad of what I was able to do for my dog, I loved him to death. I just wish that I could be afforded that same dignity when it’s my turn to go.
Bubbaonthebeach@lemmy.ca 2 weeks ago
Easy. Religious people who think humans are superior to any other life. This leads to killing animals for both merciful and vicious reasons. It also leads to keeping people alive by any Frankensteinian method possible while denying any death because “going to God” without enough suffering first isn’t religious enough. Although big corporations also get the right to kill people (gun manufacturers, oil & gas industry, Sackler family, etc.) so long as they profit enough off the deaths.
LuigiMaoFrance@lemmy.ml 2 weeks ago
There’s more profit to be made off a sick person slowly dying over years than a one-time procedure.
a_gee_dizzle@lemmy.ca 2 weeks ago
There’s more profit to be made off a sick person slowly dying over years than a one-time procedure.
This would only really apply in America. Most Western countries have at publicly funded healthcare systems, yet most of them do not have legal euthanasia for humans
jerkface@lemmy.ca 2 weeks ago
Because while euthanasia is generally a good thing, there are also big potentials for abuse and unnecessary tragedy. We maintain a pretense of caring about these things with humans and so most governments err on the side of caution while others think they’re such hot shit they can dance their way through the quagmire. Meanwhile, we openly don’t give a single fuck what happens to non-human animals, and our culture is predicated on treating them like objects, so you’re allowed to do whatever you want with them. Kill them because they’re suffering, kill them because they bark too loud, it’s all the same. It’s your dog-shaped object, go nuts.
tobebannedbygaymods@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
in islam we are only allowed to kill animals in self defence or for food euthanasia is forbidened in islam
jerkface@lemmy.ca 2 weeks ago
Do you really want me to tell you what I think about Islam and animal abuse?
BigBananaDealer@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
animal abuse is a crime you cant just do whatever you want
jerkface@lemmy.ca 2 weeks ago
You can place an animal in the open back of a truck in -30C weather and ship them 1,000km, knowing the whole time that the animal will arrive dead, and it is not a crime. No one will bat an eye because it happens THOUSANDS of times a year here in Canada.
You can take a perfectly healthy and happy animal, and stab it right in the throat, because you want the meat, or because you like stabbing animals, and it is not a crime. This also happens thousands of times a year here in Canada.
Certain animals (mainly pets) have very limited protection against abuse, but those laws do not protect the life of the animal or protect the animal from needless suffering, cruelty, or violence. Factory farming exceeds these protections routinely, but the law is set up in many provinces to make reporting these crimes effectively itself a crime.
You can do whatever you want.
Fichtre@programming.dev 2 weeks ago
TLDR : yes but (Wished it was for the greater good only, ie. respect and help people decide how they end their lives but capitalism will use it with its own vision and how it values human lives -not much-)
In addition to the usual religion + human life being supposedly more valuable than pets /many other animal, there’s the “utility” angle.
Someone here already mentioned the “is grandma Suzanne still valuable as an asset to society ? Aaaww she had a good life then. 'K bye” and it’s actually pretty huge : in a world where governments are cutting more and more social welfare budget (well, when there was one to begin with at least), promoting the right to die must include the stories of people that don’t benefit from proper care and who are way more susceptible to go with the legal way out of euthanasia. And this number, with the budget cuts, older population, whatever incapacitating fuckery that might happen will grow quickly if not properly safeguarded (and I dont trust anyone in power right now to safeguard it).
I used to be completely in favour of euthanasia as a proper, respectful ending for people in pain : we had this story in France with Vincent Humbert that encapsulated all the reasons why it should be legal.
And then, capitalism kept happening and this idea of euthanasia, as beautiful as it is if properly set, increasingly became in my mind a tool to stir the masses towards global productivity/efficiency, with a few happy yet sobbing endings.
So yeah, I’m still hesitant on this matter, and I wished it could be implemented to relieve the many persons who just want a little more respect for how they wish to die. But at the same time, if nothing more is done to increase social welfare budgets, welp. We might end up with the suicide booths from Futurama 😅
HubertManne@piefed.social 2 weeks ago
I get you but its not like its either or. If anything statistics about euthanasia would at least be an argument that social programs are insufficient. Sorta the ultimate weigh. If all places allowed it, it would likely be a pretty obvious metric for quality of life. You could not get it to zero but it would be obvious what places are not even trying. Come to think of it its obvious now why many politicians do not want to see that right be a thing.
tomsh@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Society is not that sick to let animals to suffer
timestatic@feddit.org 2 weeks ago
Except if they’re animals in the mass meat production business, then nobody cares
codewizard@hear-me.social 2 weeks ago
lost_faith@lemmy.ca 2 weeks ago
I always said we are more humane to animals than we are to humanes
a_gee_dizzle@lemmy.ca 2 weeks ago
Most animals humans own live in factory farms. So this is just objectively false
gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.de 2 weeks ago
because of WW2 and the experiences made there.
if euthanasia was legal, it would be immediately used against some kind of disadvantaged group, which is why it’s kept forbidden.
daniskarma@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
Euthanasia is already legal in some countries.
ZILtoid1991@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
And is already predominately targets some disadvantaged groups.
BorgDrone@feddit.nl 2 weeks ago
Why would those disadvantaged groups agree to being euthanized?
ILikeBoobies@lemmy.ca 2 weeks ago
This document says they did.
Papanca@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
To add to the comments; many people and laws still view animals as objects, to do with as one pleases. I still here americans -i’m from europe- talking about animals as ‘it’.
remon@ani.social 2 weeks ago
Same in Europe though. In fact “it” is just the proper pronoun for a lot of animals in gendered European languages.
Grail@multiverse.soulism.net 2 weeks ago
Part of Me calls animals “it” because it’s kinda messed up to force human constructs of gender on them. I always try to put in effort to call babies “it” until they’re old enough to state their pronoun preference. But with animals, I don’t think the “it” pronouns are as important, because they don’t understand. So there’s a much bigger part of Me that’s willing to gender animals than babies.
a_gee_dizzle@lemmy.ca 2 weeks ago
Why not use “they”? Its gender neutral without being objectifying
Blackmist@feddit.uk 2 weeks ago
Because pets aren’t leaving anyone large sums of cash in their will.
Kolanaki@pawb.social 2 weeks ago
Surely some of the pets of eccentric millionaires have money left to them that will go to someone else when they die. 🤔
pulsewidth@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Religion.
Historically the primary reason that euthanasia is repeatedly challenged / legally blocked worldwide.
pirate2377@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
It is actually legal in Canada, you have the right to kill yourself there
thermal_shock@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Technically, if you’re successful, you have the right to kill yourself anywhere. Don’t let your dreams be dreams. I’d absolutely pull the plug on myself if the time came where I just wanted to fuck off.
allidoislietomyself@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
The problem is by the time you’re bad enough to say “fuck this” you may not be physically able to pull the plug. My dad had terminal cancer. One day he thought he was just tired and went up to take a nap. He laid down and never sat up again. He died a week and a half later. Unfortunately for my dad my state didn’t allow for terminal patients the choice to end their life. As of this year it is allowed if you have a doctor saying you have less than 6 months to live.
tigeruppercut@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
The US just pretends to be against it. In reality we keep guns legal so people can blow their own brains out when they get fucked by late stage capitalism. Suicide is the majority vs murder when it comes to gun deaths.
Shimitar@downonthestreet.eu 2 weeks ago
Because you need to control humans, but there is no need for pets.
In fact, it seems that euthanasia and abortion are more difficult where religion is stronger.
flandish@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
keeping sick people alive is a lot of profit.
timestatic@feddit.org 2 weeks ago
I mean there a countries where a person can die by volition for example in switzerland, so if you have a disease and suffer a lot you can let yourself be euthanised. Things get messy because even the option can make it so people could gaslight each other into getting euthanized to get inheritance quicker and all sort of that nasty shit. And I guess animals can’t really spell out if they want to die or not.
When it comes to deciding for people who can’t decide for themselves, in germany you can allow somebody else before you fall in coma to decide about stuff for you regarding health so they can ask the doctors to turn the machine of keeping you alive.
I guess its also a strict taboo for doctors with the vow to protect lives. But there’s been a push for it in some parts of the world. There are also stings in history where people with mental illness were regarded as “not worthy of living” in nazi germany for example and basically killed. So thats one reason for example it also remains a taboo with many liberal countries rethinking on the (consentual) euthanasia for those suffering and having the legit wish to die.
In Germany where I’m from you’re legally allowed to be prescribed medication that ends your life but you have to administer it to yourself. There also the difference of passive and active euthanasia. Active is where doctors can administer it to you with consent. Passive is what I described for Germany. It should really be allowed more commonly in the world tho. The passive one sucks for people who are paralyzed and can’t administer it to themselves because anyone else that does it will only do so illegally
Here a map from 2022. Image
garbagebagel@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
In Canada, nobody can decide it for you, even if you have a Representation Agreement, which is the medical do decisions.
You need to go through at least two independent psychological assessments and you need to be legally totally sound of mind. So if you take too long to make the decision and you have something like dementia, you’re not allowed to have a medically assisted death.
This is why I find it so crazy when people freak out about it here. Like we have so many hoops through jump through, it’s not something that you can just walk into an office and a doctor will just shoot you up.
Canconda@lemmy.ca 2 weeks ago
it’s not something that you can just walk into an office and a doctor will just shoot you up.
TBF the uproar is from people who also believe children are getting sex changes at elementary school.
Canconda@lemmy.ca 2 weeks ago
it’s not something that you can just walk into an office and a doctor will just shoot you up.
TBF the uproar is from people who also believe children are getting sex changes at elementary school.
DV8@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Euthanasia is accepted and has been legal in Belgium for decades. It’s not perfect but clearly better than nothing as it has stopped many people from needlessly suffering or worse, forcing their loved ones to discover their bodies after doing it themselves. (Though it still happens as many, many things aren’t covered or extremely hard)
swordgeek@lemmy.ca 2 weeks ago
Canada has Medical Assistance In Dying (MAID). People can - with medical approval and assistance - choose to go out on their own terms.
GreenShimada@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
What everyone has missed so far:
Societies typically have a value for human life - it’s often cheap. A wrongful death lawsuit is an example of this.
However, individuals with names are where it gets messy and personal and emotional.
The Republican counter to Obamacare was that “Death Panels” would tell you when it was time to put your granny down because she was costing the state too much (what they said, not what Oabamacare’s policy really was). Once it became a question of “look at your Grandma Stevens and ask yourself when it’s time to put her down” that’s when it upset people.
Also, on the flip side, pets are animals that we have forced to some degree, to put up with our BS to have a stable food source. Humans do tons of wacky shit to them. We castrate them, cut off parts of their ears and tails, cut out their uteruses, breed them to be genuine abominations, cut their hair, teach them tricks, make them wear sweaters and shoes and jewelry, and make them eat pellets made by a machine from the parts of animals we don’t want to eat ourselves. Part of breeding them and buying them is the convenience of their lives in ours - we demand they be in our lives, and so people also play a role when they exit our lives. It’s an unnatural life for most pets, and we caused it.
Which all depends on how much a society really gets into pets. Plenty of places eat dogs and cats because it’s meat that grows itself. In parts of Eastern Europe, they only fix stray female dogs, not the males, because the patriarchal men making decisions don’t want to emasculate the boy dogs.
As for euthanasia in general, compassionate care of an aged pet often doesn’t align with how people put down a pet. Many shitbag people drown inconvenient animals, including pets. Some abandon their pets miles from home in hopes of them never coming back. Some only put them down when the vet bills get too expensive. A good vet will show you a chart that helps you understand how much pain an animal is in and let the owner who wants the pet to live forever for the owner’s emotional needs understand that they have to make a decision to end it. This is exceptionally rare, and not the way things go for 99.999% of the species made our pets on this planet.
itisileclerk@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Because most of the members of the society (people) belive that people have souls and animals don’t.
jerkface@lemmy.ca 2 weeks ago
ha ha okay
affenlehrer@feddit.org 2 weeks ago
I can’t answer that but it’s like to use this discussion to say that I’m generally impressed by veterinarians. They have patients that are actually different species and (e.g. in dogs) their size and weight varies widely. They can’t speak or consent to anything and they often actively hide if they’re in pain or impaired. Placebo effect probably doesn’t really work either.At the same time the owners (if it’s a pet) often love them like a child and get super worried and / or pissed if something happens.
bagsy@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Do you have any idea how much money there is in end of life care, nursing homes, and hospice? Its a many billion dollar industry. It exists mostly to rob estates from the elderly so the kids inherit nothing. Its a truly evil thing to prolong someones suffering in order to pad your bank account.
bitchkat@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I wish we could do for our human loved ones the same as we can do for our pets.
MedicPigBabySaver@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
It would be great if personal freedom included your decision to die on your own terms.
Fizz@lemmy.nz 2 weeks ago
I think opinions are shifting as people become less religious.
thatradomguy@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
The “at large” folk are the same folk that justify what Trump and other war powers, terrorists et al do by killing other humans (i.e. murder) for the sake of ideology. It’s the same thing. These people’s silly books make it so that you can’t off yourself because it’s a “sin”. They’re ok with you suffering without limbs on a daily basis without proper healthcare, die during childbirth, etc. Quitting life prematurely thoughl? No, that’s clearly way worse to these people.
manuremy@sopuli.xyz 2 weeks ago
Religions and doctors “vowing to protect life.” Especially religious doctors “vowing to protect life” even when the life means just pain and suffering that can’t be properly eased with pain meds either, because you know, the dying person might get addicted to the meds. That’s obviously worse.
In my country, when an elder person is too sick and “ready to be euthanized”, they just stop giving them water and let them dry to death. It can take weeks. They do give some pain medication, but there is no way of knowing what amount is enough. You’d imagine that dying that way is pretty damn painful yet they don’t have a way of communicating that. But if they OD’ed, it would be murder so better let them suffer!
But also, euthanizing animals is becoming more taboo too. Many pets live in pain, relying in “pet mobility carts” and medications. Antidepressants for cats, epilepsy meds for dogs… Vets prolong the suffering for money, for people who can’t accept facts and do the kind and right thing. Animals have no way of communicating about side-effects from medications. Endless rehoming is thought to be better than letting go.
mellow@lemmy.wtf 2 weeks ago
My grandfather got that treatment. Fuck religions.
IAMgROOT@lemmy.wtf 2 weeks ago
I am indeed sorry that Doctors who misunderstood the Bible did that to your grandfather.
To artificially prolong life in pain and suffering is extremely immoral
IAMgROOT@lemmy.wtf 2 weeks ago
the Wise know that sometimes, their time has come whatever was created must either perish or have eternal life