Nothing wrong with using AI to organize or supplement workflow. That’s literally the best use for it.
Larian CEO Responds to Divinity Gen AI Backlash: 'We Are Neither Releasing a Game With Any AI Components, Nor Are We Looking at Trimming Down Teams to Replace Them With AI'
Submitted 11 hours ago by iAmTheTot@sh.itjust.works to games@lemmy.world
Comments
13igTyme@piefed.social 10 hours ago
iAmTheTot@sh.itjust.works 10 hours ago
Except for the ethical question of how the AI was trained, or the environmental aspect of using it.
Deceptichum@quokk.au 2 hours ago
There is no ethics under capitalism, so that’s a moot point.
ruuster13@lemmy.zip 9 hours ago
The cat’s out of the bag. Focus your energy on stopping fascist oligarchs then regulating AI to be as green and democratic as possible. Or sit back and avoid it out of ethical concerns as the fascists use it to target and eliminate you.
Hackworth@piefed.ca 10 hours ago
There are AI’s that are ethically trained. There are AI’s that run on local hardware. We’ll eventually need AI ratings to distinguish use types, I suppose.
13igTyme@piefed.social 8 hours ago
There’s more to AI than LLM.
Bronzebeard@lemmy.zip 7 hours ago
No one [intelligent] is using an LLm for workflow organization. Despite what the media will try to convince you, Not every AI is an LLM or even and LLM trained on all the copyrighted shit you can find in the Internet.
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 10 hours ago
We’ve had tools to manage workflows for decades. You don’t need Copilot injected into every corner of your interface to achieve this.
rtxn@lemmy.world 10 hours ago
You know it doesn’t have to be all or nothing, right?
In the early design phase, for example, quick placeholder objects are invaluable for composing a scene. Say you want a dozen different effigies built from wood and straw – you let the clanker churn them out. If you like them, an environment artist can replace them with bespoke models, as detailed and as optimized as the scene needs it. If you don’t like them, you can just chuck them in the trash and you won’t have wasted the work of an artist, who can work on artwork that will actually appear in the released product.
Hackworth@piefed.ca 10 hours ago
Yup! Certifying a workflow as AI-free would be a monumental task now. First, you’d have to designate exactly what kinds of AI you mean, which is a harder task than I think people realize. Then, you’d have to identify every instance of that kind of AI in every tool you might use. And just looking at Adobe, there’s a lot. Then you, what, forbid your team from using them, sure, but how do you monitor that? Ya can’t uninstall generative fill from Photoshop. Anyway, that’s why anything with a complicated design process marked “AI-Free” is going to be the equivalent of greenwashing, at least for a while. But they should be able to prevent obvious slop from being in the final product just in regular testing.
finitebanjo@lemmy.world 6 hours ago
The only good use for LLMs and generative AI is spreading misinformation.
Darkcoffee@sh.itjust.works 10 hours ago
I was saying that as well.
I get the knee jerk reaction because everything has been so horrible everywhere lately with AI, but they’re actually one of the few companies using it right.
Doctorbllk@slrpnk.net 6 hours ago
There’s nothing to complain about here. Games require tons of placeholders, in art, dialogue, and code. They will iterate dozens of times before the final product, and given Larian’s own production standards, there’s no chance anything but the most inconsequential or forgotten items made by an LLM will stay in.
Noja@sopuli.xyz 5 hours ago
Among the devs responding is a former Larian staffer, environment artist Selena Tobin. “consider my feedback: i loved working at @larianstudios.com until AI,” Tobin writes. “reconsider and change your direction, like, yesterday. show your employees some respect. they are world-class & do not need AI assistance to come up with amazing ideas.”
Doctorbllk@slrpnk.net 4 hours ago
The article doesn’t say Larian is using it for concept art.
Those were hypothetical statements from people outside the studio.
TommySoda@lemmy.world 9 hours ago
They honestly should have expected this given peoples visceral reaction to anything AI. Personally, I have huge problems with AI and refuse to play most games that have used it. I think it’s poisoning every creative industry and replacing important jobs while using vague the excuse that it makes things “easier.” I’m willing to give Larian the benefit of the doubt simply because of their previous games being amazing, but imma wait for the reviews on this one. This game is still going to be in development for another 4 years and none of us will no what’ll happen between then and now, but for now I’ll remain hopefully optimistic
krooklochurm@lemmy.ca 41 minutes ago
Such a nuanced, unique opinion you have
riskable@programming.dev 8 hours ago
Most people—even obsessive gamers—don’t give two shits about AI. There’s a very loud minority that gets in everyone’s face saying all AI is evil like we’re John Connor or something. They are so obsessive and extreme about it, it often makes the news (like this article).
The market has already determined that if a game is fun, people will play it. How much AI was used to make it is irrelevant.
NotASharkInAManSuit@lemmy.world 3 hours ago
I’ve yet to meet a single person in real life who isn’t turned off by AI, and there are fewer and fewer of you grifters in the comments these days trying to defend it.
Fuck LLMs and dispersion models, its not art and it’s not even AI.
brucethemoose@lemmy.world 8 hours ago
That’s extreme, and put abrasively.
…But not entirely wrong.
And it’s not a small minority anymore, which is understandable given how pervasive chatbot enshittification is becoming. Maybe the ‘made with AI’ label isn’t enough to deter everyone, but it’s enough to kill social media momentum, which is largely how games sell these days.
Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml 4 hours ago
Cool story
brucethemoose@lemmy.world 10 hours ago
Yeah, this is ridiculous. This doesn’t mean they’re enforcing a CoPilot quota or vibe coding the game, it could be simple autocompletion or (say) a component that makes the mocap pipeline easier.
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 10 hours ago
…Now, if they ship slop into the final game
At a certain level, it is going to be a chore to determine who is or is not slopping up with AI media. Not every asset comes out with six fingers and a half-melted face.
I can see legitimate frustration with an industry that seems reliant on increasingly generic and interchangeable assets. AI just becomes the next iteration of this problem. You’ve expanded the warehouse of prefab images, but you’re still stuck with end products that are uncannily similar to everything else on the market.
And that’s before you get to the IP implications of farming all your content out to a third party that doesn’t seem to care where its base library is populated from.
brucethemoose@lemmy.world 9 hours ago
At a certain level, it is going to be a chore to determine who is or is not slopping up with AI media. Not every asset comes out with six fingers and a half-melted face.
Image/video diffusion is a tiny subset of genAI.
I can see legitimate frustration with an industry that seems reliant on increasingly generic and interchangeable assets. AI just becomes the next iteration of this problem. You’ve expanded the warehouse of prefab images, but you’re still stuck with end products that are uncannily similar to everything else on the market.
See above. And in many spaces, there are a sea of models to choose from, and an easy ability to tune them to whatever style you want.
And that’s before you get to the IP implications of farming all your content out to a third party that doesn’t seem to care where its base library is populated from.
Thier tools can be totally in house, disconnected from the outside web, if they wish. They might just be a part of the pipelione on their graphics workstations.
It’s important to draw a distinction between “some machine learning in our production workflows” and “a partnership with OpenAI.” Those are totally different things, and it sounds like Larian is talking about the former.
digdilem@lemmy.ml 8 hours ago
At a certain level, it is going to be a chore to determine who is or is not slopping up with AI media. Not every asset comes out with six fingers and a half-melted face.
That’s a good point. I think a lot of people are dismissing AI content because there’s this fallacy and desire to believe it’s all “slop”. It’s willfully ignorant to wave it all away like that. Sure, we’ve all seen the stupid stuff, and it’s really annoying, but we absorb the good stuff without even knowing it. Anyone claiming they can reliably spot AI generated images is fooling themselves even at this early stage.
I’d like to know when something is real, especially real art and even pictures of nature, but I don’t think I can.
Jankatarch@lemmy.world 2 hours ago
Yeah I am definetely sure higher ups of this one studio alone use it responsibly because they are “not like the others” and definetely will resist making a bad decision.
Ashtear@piefed.social 10 hours ago
Considering we’ve already got the one former Larian employee speaking out against this, it’ll be interesting to see how many more show up off the record (or maybe on the record anonymously). I’m sure there was an internal battle over it.
There aren’t many (possibly none) with more goodwill banked among enthusiast gamers than Vincke, so I feel like we’re about to see just how far a popular figure can step into this particular puddle without coming out soaked.
MoogleMaestro@lemmy.zip 8 hours ago
As someone who owns D:OS2, this is really disappointing and below their standards. I’ll be giving this new Divinity a pass.
They don’t need to be using AI to create concepts, and if they do, I don’t think the “concepts” will be all that great in the first place. Not to mention the ethical perils of using models trained off other artists who are not licensed or compensated.
This is some classic CEO “step on a rake and then get mad at everyone else” nonsense. They openly talked about how they liked AI, and get mad at us for saying “cool, that’s a game I’m gonna skip then!”
brucethemoose@lemmy.world 8 hours ago
That’s an awfully early point to judge a game, with basically zero knowledge of what they’re actually doing/using?
What if it’s a home grown model to assist with mocap?
MoogleMaestro@lemmy.zip 8 hours ago
What if it’s a home grown model to assist with mocap?
Well, that’s not what it is (a), at least according to the CEO. They used it for concepts, not animations. And also, (b) I’m not really in the place to give people the benefit of the doubt when using AI that is trained off stolen materials. I sincerely doubt they’re using a “home grown model” because anyone who knows even a scrap of how LLM/GANs work knows that the data needs to train a model would be far beyond the reach of a company of Larian’s scale. They’ve likely just licensed it from one of the many grifting oligarch AI peddlers.
We don’t need defenders coming in here trying to pretend that the CEO hasn’t just clarified that they are using AI for preproduction, we know this and it’s not up for debate now.
Would that be enough to write it off?
As someone who really appreciates and likes animation, in that particular example, then yes it would probably be enough to write it off. And frankly, why do I need to play their game when I could just AI generate my own slop and save the 70 bucks? In reality, it’s actually fine for me, I have plenty of games and can replay the old Divinity games before these guys lost their way. They used to be a company that followed a passion for CRPGs with good-will behind them, but now that BG3 has been a runaway hit, it seems like they’ve forgotten about the community that got them to where they are today in favor of some AAA gaming nonsense.
ToiletFlushShowerScream@lemmy.world 7 hours ago
Welp, there goes all of my enthusiasm for the next game. Will have to check out other actual game developers and artists instead of whatever Larian and their genAI prompt monkeys have become.
CallMeAnAI@lemmy.world 9 hours ago
Gamers will and do bitch about anything and everything. I couldn’t care less if they use AI if the product is good.
Katana314@lemmy.world 7 hours ago
I’ve had an idea of making a visual novel with gen AI, but I’d want to attach “Placeholder: AI Artwork” in a visible location for each sprite. And I only even consider that because I’m not exactly a known game dev and don’t have ready access to artists.
Jankatarch@lemmy.world 2 hours ago
Also you don’t have the infamous AAA deadlines to deal with so you can actually be trusted to not include them in final outcome.
Klanky@sopuli.xyz 11 hours ago
I really hope this marks the end of the internet’s weird love fest with this company and CEO. They don’t care about you in the slightest.
BryceBassitt@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 hour ago
I dont give a shit if they care or not, they make amazing games
realitaetsverlust@piefed.zip 11 hours ago
Yeah because why like a company that has released banger after banger after banger.
the_q@lemmy.zip 10 hours ago
Because one day they won’t. The more money a company makes the closer they get to being every successful company.
Klanky@sopuli.xyz 10 hours ago
That may be true. Still a company, still doesn’t care about anyone besides as a consumer. I don’t get the weird parasocial relationships people develop with any company/corporation.
Kaput@lemmy.world 6 hours ago
I would play a game with ai NPCs. Not the artwork but the mechanic. You could run hundreds of interqctable characters with simple prompts that states ztheir goals and personalities. Like a modern radiant ai.
Noja@sopuli.xyz 5 hours ago
These games already exist and they’re just boring, no thought behind any dialogue, just a waterfall of LLM slop.
Kaput@lemmy.world 5 hours ago
any name I can take a look at? I’m curious to see it.
Cybersteel@lemmy.world 7 hours ago
Games dead on arrival clanker.
minorkeys@lemmy.world 10 hours ago
We’re not looking to, but if it happens, it happens.
Deceptichum@quokk.au 2 hours ago
I only care if the game is good. What tools are used to make it is irrelevant to my enjoyment.