For those of you who enjoy open-world games, how big of a world is too big?

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• PonyOfWar@pawb.social ⁨16⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  It’s too big when the developers are unable to fill it with enough interesting things to do and discover to keep my attention. But there’s no absolute size I’d automatically consider too big, as it also depends on things like traversal. If you ride through the map on a mech going 400km/h, it can be much larger and more spread out than if I have to traverse the entire map on foot.

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  • ShadowCat@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    That’s definitely a key point. Absolutely loved the first Forest game, the map was just the right size for what content it had, then the sequel has a map 4x the size that is just completely empty for 90% of it. They did make some improvements over early access but it was still mostly a waste

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• teawrecks@sopuli.xyz ⁨4⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  WoW is objectively huge, but they made it feel tiny by putting fast travel options everywhere. I would guess that any two points in the world are no more than 5m from each other if routed perfectly.

  I want there to exist one MMO where you “live” in a city, and traveling to another city is actually so inconvenient that you only do it if you have to. Not because I want to make the trek, but because I want there to be a world just large enough that any one person has usually seen only ~1%, but the playerbase in entirety has seen >50%. I don’t know if any such game exists.

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  • MyNameIsAtticus@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    I’d love for just any game with a scale that large. I think it’d be awesome

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• edgemaster72@lemmy.world ⁨13⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  To summarize this thread: It’s not the size of the map, it’s how you use it

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  • YiddishMcSquidish@lemmy.today ⁨13⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    Hey it’s a totally average sized map! Some would even say it’s too much!

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    • Zorque@lemmy.world ⁨12⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      It has pools in it!

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• magic_lobster_party@fedia.io ⁨15⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  It’s not about the size, but more about density of meaningful content. I like Elden Ring because every nook and cranny feels worth exploring. It’s the game that dares to hide optional areas behind optional areas, all with their own unique enemies and bosses.

  On the other hand, taking Elden Ring as an example again, the mini dungeons were too repetitive. The first time visiting a catacomb is exciting, but it turns into quite a chore after the third time and onwards. You’ve already seen it all. Same thing with the dragon battles.

  I think Elden Ring overall strikes a good balance with amount of surprises per square meter.

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  • YiddishMcSquidish@lemmy.today ⁨13⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    There was one maze type catacomb with teleporting chests that was like a breathe of fresh air.

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• cyberpunk007@lemmy.ca ⁨7⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  The Witcher 3 and Elden ring were massive, and I enjoyed them because the world’s were beautiful, non repetitive, and dense with unique material.

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• twinnie@feddit.uk ⁨11⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  It can never be too big, but it’s a problem if it’s a big city with nothing to do (Cyberpunk).

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• I_Jedi@lemmy.today ⁨12⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  I say density, though Elite Dangerous puts a spin on how large the map should be.

  In Elite Dangerous, most of the galaxy is unexplored. The Bubble (human inhabited area) is fully explored, which steadily dwindles as you go to about 1k ly outside the Bubble. Out there, you’re basically on your own.

  When you explore and map unexplored areas, you actually get some money depending on the quality of your finds. If you find some Earth-like planets, for instance, you can get a lot of money from exploring. There is also an inexhaustible supply of systems to explore, so there’s no need to worry about running out.

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  • MilitantAtheist@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    I spent 3 months in the void, didn’t see another player for the entire run.

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• Kolanaki@pawb.social ⁨2⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  ARMA 3’s Altis map is too big.

  Unless you’re flying a jet. Then it’s still too small!

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• spaciouscoder78@lemmy.ml ⁨3⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  As long as it has fast travel I don’t mind having a big open world but if the open world itself feels empty without much life then I’m immediately turned off by the game

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  • faintwhenfree@lemmus.org ⁨2⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    Reminds me of no man’s sky and it’s empty bajillions of planets.

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    • spaciouscoder78@lemmy.ml ⁨2⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      I have 90 hours in no man’s sky and I got pretty burnt out on it. After a certain point, every planet feels the same and lifeless.

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• Red_October@piefed.world ⁨14⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  It's not a question of the world being too big or too small, it's the density of interesting things. A giant world with very little worth doing doesn't accomplish much, but similarly a small world where you're absolutely tripping over things that feel like you shouldn't skip them will also feel claustrophobic.

  Interestingly, the traversal system can help a LOT here. Even a world that has a lot of wide open dead space can feel good if the process of crossing that space is itself fun. Dune: Awakening comes to mind here, where there are large spans of open desert that you need to cross, but ripping across the dunes on my sandbike was so much fun I didn't mind the dead ground.

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  • Phil_in_here@lemmy.ca ⁨7⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    Do you remember LoZ Wind Waker? Maybe it’s the nostalgia goggles, but ripping through the open water just felt good. I don’t even think it was particularly mechanically fun. Maybe it was just the music.

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• classic@fedia.io ⁨13⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  More than bigger, I want more accessible interior spaces. Like cyberpunk, but you can go into other people's living spaces

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  • KammicRelief@lemmy.world ⁨12⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    Yes, this. Even if some of it is procedurally generated, how fun would it be to go in ANY door in cp77??

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    • Postmortal_Pop@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      First mod I put in fallout puts mor interiors into city buildings. Frankly I’d be happy of 70% were recycled but 100% were accessible.

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    • frongt@lemmy.zip ⁨10⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      Everything except the story bits would be procedurally generated. And it would probably get pretty boring having like three interior types repeated over and over.

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• ICCrawler@lemmy.world ⁨13⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  Nothing much new to say, just reiteration. A big or huge or gigantic map is fine, so long as it’s populated by meaningful content.

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• Tattorack@lemmy.world ⁨16⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  There is no open world that is too big. They can only be too small.

  However, the quality of an open world is not predicated on the size of the open world, but rather what is actually in it.

  And this doesn’t mean that open worlds must be drowning in content, as the quality of the content itself also matters, and certain worlds that are large and empty can still be interesting due to its traversal being good, or the sandbox nature of a large empty world.

  Some of the worst examples of open worlds are the kind that are just filled with isolated little fetch quests; busywork that’s all marked on the map with no element of organic exploration. Or the kinds of open worlds where nothing actually happens “organically” without the player starting it.

  The best kinds of open worlds are the ones that emphasise exploration and/or have background systems governing the world in some way (i.e. factions that interact with each other without the explicit involvement of the player).

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  • Droechai@piefed.blahaj.zone ⁨14⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    I feel Daggerfall would be too big without the quick travel systems, but thats the only game Ive felt dread about slow travelling to distant locations

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• Flamekebab@piefed.social ⁨11⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  My go-to “too big” is True Crime: Streets of LA. If memory serves it’s a decent chunk of LA at 1:1 scale.

  It’s far too big and there’s not much to do. It doesn’t help that the game is dross.

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• PlzGivHugs@sh.itjust.works ⁨14⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  Basically, how much of the world is interesting/fun.

  For example, Fallout 3 doesn’t do a great job of this, as much of the world is baren with no story or gameplay. Half of the world feels like it could be cut out without much loss. The Yakuza games on the other hand, have smaller worlds but they feel massive and fun because there’s always something to do moments away.

  The work-around is to make travel fun, so the “empty-space” is just more gameplay. The Just Cause games are the perfect example of this. All the movement mechanics are quick and satisfying, from the grapple and parachute, to the driving, to the OP wingsuit.

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  • winety@lemmy.zip ⁨14⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    For example, Fallout 3 doesn’t do a great job of this, as much of the world is baren with no story or gameplay. Half of the world feels like it could be cut out without much loss. The Yakuza games on the other hand, have smaller worlds but they feel massive and fun because there’s always something to do moments away.

    On the other hand, the world of Fallout 4 feels very cramped; you can’t go 5 meters without encouraging something. Bethesda’s games are interesting in this aspect – the worlds of different games are built similarly, but they differ in some small parameters (as in the density of Fallout 4), so they’re ripe for comparison.

    Personally, I feel there were two peaks in Bethesda’s worlds – Morrowind and Skyrim. Both for different reasons.

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    • Postmortal_Pop@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      As a Morrowind enjoyer, I find Skyrim to be too shallow. There’s 7 weapons in the game, 7 spells, and nothing really to do.

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  • Flamekebab@piefed.social ⁨11⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    I would argue that Fallout 3’s map is ridiculously tiny.

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    • PlzGivHugs@sh.itjust.works ⁨10⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      It has been a little while since I last played it, but I found that scale-wise, it felt small (I’m guessing this is what you mean) with major locations too close together, but content-wise, it felt sparse, empty and ultimately pretty boring.

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• orochi02@feddit.org ⁨13⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  Morrowind

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• owenfromcanada@lemmy.ca ⁨16⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  It’s never too big. That’s why I’m pumped for The Wayward Realms (from the creators of Daggerfall, easily the largest world of its time).

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  • Naia@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨15⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    How have I not heard of this one?

    I did hear about Light No Fire from the No Man Sky devs. Looks impressive from what I’ve seen so far on it with it’s supposedly literal Earth sized world.

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  • sexy_peach@feddit.org ⁨16⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    Damn it looks good. Still going to take ages until it’s finished, if ever

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    • owenfromcanada@lemmy.ca ⁨15⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      Yeah, I’m hopeful for an alpha release next year some time. Might be longer, but should be worth the wait.

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• markz@suppo.fi ⁨16⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  Measuring size alone is meaningless, as gameplay affects perceived size, and density of meaningful content in relation affects the experience.

  Size should match content.

  Skyrim is canonically pretty close to the size and shape of Estonia, but in game it’s very small. If the game’s content was spread out to the “real” size, it would feel completely barren.

  The map in Deus Ex MD was quite small, but it punched way above its size, because it was so dense in detail.

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  • Jrockwar@feddit.uk ⁨15⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    Agree. If you could go into every single store, house, nook and cranny of Cyberpunk 2077, and talk to all the NPCs, it would feel absolutely humongous. Gameplay significantly affects perceived size.

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• thatradomguy@lemmy.world ⁨9⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  Was that 30GB RAM Harry Potter game real or were my friends messing with me? 'Cause my answer would be that.

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• magnetosphere@fedia.io ⁨15⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  What determines what "too big" is?

  Ease of travel and speed of travel. Even a small map can feel cumbersome, repetitive, and boring. If the missions are designed poorly, and the game mechanics ignore an entertaining user experience, walking down the same hallway a thousand times can feel like a chore.

  “Too big” is a relative feeling that involves many factors.

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• zod000@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨15⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  There is no limit, but I am also a big fan of Daggerfall and thus clearly insane.

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  • redhorsejacket@lemmy.world ⁨15⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    Are you insane, or have you achieved CHIM?

    Not that there’s an appreciable difference…looking at you, Michael Kirkbride.

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• popcornpizza@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨16⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  The bigger the better, as long as there’s content, or the game lets you create content (as in crafting).

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• Buffy@libretechni.ca ⁨16⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  Hot take, but the open world nature of Elden Ring drove me crazy. Coming from a series grounded by its tightly knit and highly curated environments, I never understood why Elden Ring is so unanimously considered the “peak” of the series.

  I enjoyed my time with it, but I couldn’t help but wonder what the game could have been without the open world inclusion. So for me it’s not necessarily “how big is too big”, but whether or not the gameplay necessitates an open world.

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• cmhe@lemmy.world ⁨14⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  It is too big when the density of reasons to go there and explore becomes to little.

  Personally, I don’t really care for games that have huge maps just to pass through while traveling around. There needs to be a reason in the story for every place to be there.

  Every village, town or city needs to be filled with quests and stories, and the space between them as well to a lesser extend. They serve as immersive distractions. They need to be alive.

  The map is too big if it cannot be filled with enough stuff to explore and experience.

  TBH, I am not much of a sandbox game player and the JC 2 and 3 maps looked nice, but didn’t really invite me to stay and explore a single area for a while, because it the areas didn’t have much depth. I prefer a much higher density of things to do. Each village should have a couple of hours of content, exploring it and the neighboring area. And larger towns or cities even more.

  I want to minimize the ‘just cruising through’ parts of maps.

  Cyberpunk as well had too much dead space when it comes to stuff to do in many parts of the city.

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• Naia@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨15⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  Depends on a lot of factors like what the actual game is.

  A sandbox game, bigger is better. Like Minecraft. If the goal is exploration and resource gathering you can plop me into an infinitely generated map and I will be happy.

  Outside of that, narrative games can be too big if there’s nothing to do in between points of interests. I don’t mean like side-quests, but more like random encounters or crafting/gathering stuff. There has to be something there I can either get distracted with or to “on the way” to the next location.

  I think a lot of games want their cake and eat it too. It’s not an open world game, but Final Fantasy XIV promoted the Heavensward expansion with the zones being like 5 times bigger than the base game…

  …but there were only 6 of them and between already being able to teleport to each zone there wasn’t any difficulty navigating the zones and they added flying which made them seem smaller than the base zones.

  1.0 XIV had impressively sized zones that were unfortunately very copy pasted and between the rushed release and the engine limitations enemies were very spread out.

  Again, depends on the game.

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• pheonixdown@sh.itjust.works ⁨15⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  An Open World is only too big if it requires loading screens at transition points that aren’t natural. An Open World can have an insufficient density of relevant content, where exploring it has too little marginal utility to the player, and therefore it is ultimately not useful to exist.

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• whotookkarl@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨16⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  I don’t think there’s a too big for a simulation type game world, go all the way. But for more directed game styles that are narrative driven or more carnival ride than simulation don’t make it boring use techniques from past games; the keeping distant landmarks in view outside like in New Vegas, or hilly landscapes to obscure stuff to discover like in Zelda or Skyrim. Bad examples would be like traveling between towns in daggerfall or those monuments in the middle of nowhere in starfield.

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• schwim@piefed.zip ⁨16⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  I have not met a too-big open world as of yet.

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  • PP_BOY_@lemmy.world ⁨16⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    Its not about being too big but too little stuff to do IMO. The first Assassin’s Creed wasnt even that big but felt like a wasteland going from one side of the map to the other

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• IWW4@lemmy.zip ⁨14⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  It is all about the amount of content. If you are just wandering around with nothing work doing than to hell with that.

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• NuXCOM_90Percent@lemmy.zip ⁨15⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  Big enough that I lose interest or notice the padding.

  A lot of it boils down to execution. The more urban areas of a Sleeping Dogs or the TW3 map with the Bloody Baron (not the viking map) feel geuinely massive enough though both are on the smaller end. Whereas something like GTA5’s San Andreas actively pissed me off because so much of the game was just driving to and from set pieces on the interstate.

  That said: I actively don’t care about completion unless I really love the game. So if something was 40000km^2… I might never leave the two square kilomters the actual game takes place in and not care about the rest.

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