Submitted 2 months ago by octopus_ink@lemmy.ml to [deleted]
https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/dd74b5d0-a8ff-4144-83d6-ed111e66c601.webp
There’s a tiny part of me that’s willing to allow that the people voting for him in 2016 just wanted to make their protests heard. Even though he was very, very clear who he is and what he stands for, people were struggling and made themselves heard in the shittiest possible way.
But the people who voted him in again, knowing exactly how it’s going to shake out could all drop dead at once and I wouldn’t shed a tear. Fuck every one of those cunts.
Hot take:
The problem isn’t the other middle class people who’ve been convinced to wear a different color hat.
The problem is the oligarchs who’ve been plotting to take over and destroy the power of the people by dismantling the government. The people who are actively doing that exact thing while the ignorant masses engage in tribalism and attacking people for voting.
Engaging on this topic is just furthering the distraction tactics. The people who’re actively working to destroy the government or implementing policies targeting minority populations are not your neighbors or anybody that you will run into on social media.
Ok but I still partially blame the people who voted the oligarchs into power
Sure, but as a leftist who grew up in a deep red area, I can tell you that those people are, largely, uneducated and ignorant.
It is because of that ignorance that they’re able to believe the lies that led them to acting the way that they did. The people who bear the majority of the responsibility and blame are the ones who know that they’re taking advantage of and cultivating that ignorance.
I get to hear, in real time, the propaganda engine work on these people (which includes most of my family). I see how topics are framed, by media personalities, into palatable actions. As I’m writing this, there’s a podcast playing at my job, where DOGE is being celebrated for finding ‘fraud and abuse’. I know, for a fact, that the listeners don’t have a high school education and have no idea how the government’s payment systems work… but the radio is telling them that DOGE is doing good work.
So, how can they know any better? These are not people who’re ever going to continue their education and their media literacy skills were developed in the 80s. They’re simply not equipped to handle the scale of lying that exists in the modern world.
On the other hand, the person talking, has multiple degrees and has served in the federal government. That person KNOWS they’re lying but continue to do so because it is profitable. I find people like that to be far more culpable. They’re lying for profit (grifting, to use an over used term) and their lies reach millions of voters.
Then you have the people who benefit from the lies. Trump and Elon know that they’re dealing with ignorant people, they know exactly how to use populist rhetoric at public events. While, in private, they’re using the power that they’ve obtained to corruptly enrich themselves and their sycophants.
Direct your ire at the people who’re actively profiting off of lies and corruption. Help to educate the other people around you when they’re being fed lies.
Attacking your neighbor while Elon and Trump ransack the government is not only pointless, it’s completely counter-productive and ensures that we’ll never unify against this kind of power grab.
If you want to come to that conclusion in a political postmortem 20 years from now I’d fully encourage it.
The problem is that right now the house is burning down and shaming people for playing with matches won’t save us.
Oh but you don’t get it, they are NAZIS you seeeee
I mean I am sure of that even tho I haven’t actually met them or talked to them or even made an effort to understand them. But yeah pretty sure
I think once someone is making Nazi salutes on a presidential inauguration stage, we can safely call them a Nazi. And as the old saying goes, you know what you call all the people who sit down at a dinner table with a Nazi?
I see three main types of people that voted for trump, the easily duped, racists and the rich that don’t care how they get their money. If someone tells me they voted for this guy I loose all respect for them. I’m sure that there’s some one issue voters out there but I would lump them into the first category. I have even less respect for someone that doesn’t like trump but did not vote.
I’m at a loss of what to even do. I would like to see the dnc grow a pair of balls and take on these monsters. I would like to see the dnc organize a national boycott on any company even closely tied to musk and trump. The protests are fine to show solidarity but the people in charge will not see it. Hitting the companies in the wallet that are helping musk and trump destroy our country would be a good cause IMHO.
There’s also the “vote to hurt people I don’t like” group:
I knew one of those types. The first Trump campaign he straight up said he wanted to see the US destroyed and that’s why he was voting. He used to be a run-of-the-mill liberal dude but got caught up in stupid 4 Chan and shit and became a huge mysogynist and racist. It was sick watching him turn and become emboldened over the years.
I’ve lived all around this country and I think the biggest bucket that you exclude is “people who grew up their whole lives in Republican communities that also don’t care about politics nearly as much as chronic Internet users”. these people go to the booths and go ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ before voting for whoever’s campaign banner they saw around town more or whoever they heard a relative mention. these people are everywhere. they aren’t even bad people or misinformed dummies, per say, just willingly uninformed. for a large swath of Americans, being Republican is just the default unfortunately.
If someone lacks the intellectual curiosity to question their own beliefs, they’re fucking dumb (and probably lazy). That’s the first box, assuming “easily duped” means what we all know it means.
Don’t assume someone who voted for Trump lacks morals or is racist etc.
They could just be really stupid. Did you think of that?
Consider average intelligence, consider now that half of them are dumber than that.
Not sure why you’re being downvoted for being right. If the people who voted for Trump:
…what other conclusions are there?
Hate
Cruelty is their primary motivation
Lead Poisoning
Im not American, so here is an outside viewpoint.
Being frustrated with cost of living going up Being ridiculed for just beng a republican voter Being frustrated with the country not putting their own tax paying citizens first
And now everyone on reddit and lemmy making it even worse Im affraid you’ll lose again. Jist keep alienating a majority of your people and see how it goes.
Or just disinformed
Yes, this is true for many.
History doesnt judge people
Nobody claims that WW2 was because of voters, that the Poland invasion was because of the soldiers
The people leading the propaganda are blamed
And yet, so many people’s German grandfathers refused to talk about what they did during the war. Despite the lack of judgment.
Nobody claims that WW2 was because of voters
Maybe if folks had been shamed into not supporting the Nazis and their hollow, superficial, hateful “solutions” we wouldn’t even have an example with such obvious and clear parallels to draw upon.
The people leading the propaganda are blamed
Nobody should be (or seems to have) fucking absolved them for handing their nation to fascists, either.
mirror.co.uk/…/german-civilians-forced-see-real-1…
www.pritzkermilitary.org/…/germans-dig-graves
History does judge people. The nazi soldiers have caught a ton of grief, even in my lifetime. The israli soldiers currently serving are frequently compared to nazi soldiers both in meme and article form.
Yes the leaders get most (and should) of the blame. But people do remember the other people making it possible. (google the Yaroslav Hunka scandal for a example).
Ill probably be considered a fascist myself in my descendants eyes, having not run for office or started/participated in a violent revolution. (I am holding out hope I might still be able to participate at least).
I think this will be the dynamic that ultimately, finally, eventually-in-God-knows-how-long, bubbles over and hopefully addresses this nonsense. People will slowly reach where many of us are: just doooone. Out of patience and understanding.
If you can’t understand why people voted for trump you never had patience or understanding in the first place. Calling someone a word over and over does not make you right or what you say true.
The problem is people like Andrea Junker here have gone way past the point of reasonability with their claims. So the people who are “supporting racism, …etc” don’t actually believe that they’re doing that. Because one teeny step out-of-line on the left, and you’re labeled right wing, and jumped on by thirsty hoards of people who would rather eat their own.
Nobody who’s voting republican actually believes you when you say they are supporting these things, because we live in clown world, and they’re all brainwashed into thinking that you’re lying.
I tell people this constantly, and get ignored or chided for the thought.
They’ve gone to the election spouting claims immigrants are eating peoples pets, that they’re going to evict them all etc. If you’ve paid any attention to the run up for the election and yet claim they’re not voting for racist politics I really don’t know what to tell you.
They’re racists. Voting for the republican party because they’re spouting racist claims, backing it up with nazi salutes and racist acts.
She’s not being a rabid animal. She’s calling it for what it is. You’re not obliged to use kiddie gloves with these cunts
Nobody’s born a nazi, and in my opinion painting millions of people with a broad brush solves nothing even if feels righteous. There’s a whole spectrum of people ranging from apathetic to ignorant to hateful and inflammatory.
As funny as it is to call someone an idiot for voting based on the price of eggs, it lacks empathy for what that might mean to some people. What if all you’ve been eating is instant ramen with an egg to pay for a medical bill that insurance didn’t cover and now you can’t even afford that.
You might be more inclined to scroll past yet another “Trump says wild shit” headline but engage more with right wing Tik Tok content arguing that the system is broken because of the ((woke-ism)) and ((DEI)). Even if you don’t believe it, now the social media algorithm has your weak spot and can put you in an echo chamber to exploit it…
Are there still people out there waving swastikas and chanting racist shit in red hats? Sure. But screaming at them won’t change anything. If someone can be changed, you’re not going to reach them now with lecturing and scolding. It’s not kiddie gloves, it’s taking a realistic approaches to convince real human beings
What they are saying is some are so stupid they don’t see the racism for what it is.
Nobody who’s voting republican actually believes you when you say they are supporting these things, because we live in clown world, and they’re all brainwashed into thinking that you’re lying.
I tell people this constantly, and get ignored or chided for the thought. Meanwhile, I’ve got a previously Trump supporter boss, who I’ve slowly become friends with and have shown him the problems on the right and moved him further to the left.
I’m not going to chide you, but after 8 years of trying, it’s only gotten worse.
I’m done. I need to focus on keeping my family safe and away from magas.
If you are having better luck changing hearts and minds, I applaud you for it. IME they aren’t interested in listening to anyone but Trump.
Just because they live in a clown world doesn’t mean we do.
Honestly at this point I don’t know if any Trump voters are intelligent enough to understand how wrong they are and how they’ve enabled really shitty people to do horrible things.
Like, genuinely, is it worth even trying to be nice or have a conversation in good faith when it’s basically impossible to do that even if you try. These folks are so far divorced from reality you can’t have a good faith convo because they don’t respect truth and won’t engage in good faith themselves.
You can’t really force these idiots to understand how wrong this shit is when they seemingly can’t even comprehend it. Like they’re just genuinely that fucking dumb.
Because one teeny step out-of-line on the left, and you’re labeled right wing
Genuinely trying to figure out what you’re referencing. Are we talking “one teeny” Daniel Perry shooting? Or is this “one teeny” mega-millionaire Dave Chappelle not getting a sixth Netflix comedy special because he’s become too transphobic? Or is this “my kids won’t talk to me anymore because I screamed ‘Pull your pants up!’ at Kendrick Lamar during the Superbowl Halftime Show”?
I tell people this constantly, and get ignored or chided for the thought.
:-/
When you have a job you sometimes need to get along with your boss.
When you become as reactionary as your opponents, then you’re no better than them. Thank you for not being like this.
Ever since the run up to Trumps first presidency I think you would agree that the republican party has become increasingly unhinged. And how has the democrats responded? With civility (in most cases.) And where has that got them? Your democracy is being dismantled, oversight removed, aid removed, trade wars with allies, etc. They got here by arguing in good faith, by being civil and not wanting to be labelled a reactionary.
Oh, and if you honestly believe you’re no better if you’re being reactionary towards fucking nazi saluting cunts, then fuck you. From the bottom of my heart, get absolutely fucked
So If I am as vehemntly against murderers as they are about murdering, I’m as bad as the murderer?
You’ve nicely summed up centrism.
Naw, I’ll judge people based on a person to person basis and not just use generalized lazy ass blanket judgement on anyone whom isnt in my social/political/religious group. Stop adding to the problem.
On a person-to-person basis, I judge every person who voted for Trump because they voted for a fascist.
Just repeating a narrative does not make it true.
Sure, but Trump voters aren’t a lazy generalization.
“I want X bad thing to happen” “Hey, this guy wants X to happen. That’s bad.” “STOP GENERALIZING!!1!”
I’d agree that your reasoning makes sense but is reductionist when talking about America’s two party system.
I grew up in a conservative town and I personally knew lots of people that were truly, deeply compassionate people. Christian in the truly radical, hippy sense of the word. Except they had one issue, abortion made them sad.
It wasn’t any ignorance of the issue or believing in satanic baby eating, but a philosophy arbitrarily picked by their community. They didn’t hate anyone getting an abortion, they just had some utopian vision of a world where they didn’t happen.
Since abortions were framed as murder and one party promised to ban abortions and the other party expand access, they were told there was only one ethical choice.
So their one line of thought trapped them. I could argue up and down the ballot on issues they agreed with, how the economy should be handled, prison reform, etc… but that one stupid idea held them back.
They’re still good people, and voted 3rd party a few times when the mood struck them. But I don’t think wanting one bad policy (with the best intentions) makes them bad people.
So I’d say yes. In that instance, with those people, it’s generalizing to say they were on board with any of the hateful policies. They were held hostage by their single issue, and the right’s rhetoric made damn sure they could never wriggle out.
You’re doing it again brother. Its best to try and relax.
Everyday I read the news and get more depressed.
that’s why i only sit and read it once a week. the rest of the time I just skim headlines.
This may not be the best thread for your mental health in that case. It hasn’t been great for mine, taking care of all the rule violations.
If you are a liberal don’t care about your opinion.
Go back to X
I kinda think you do.
Well, I’m not a liberal but I agree with that post
What part of liberalism do you disagree with?
Are you anti-capitalist?
Do you think all citizens should not have equal rights under the law?
Do you think government should have a more intrusive role in private life or business?
Do you oppose what the founding fathers of America created?
Are you just confusing Liberalism, which is an ideology, with progressivism (the actual opposite of conservative?)
Thanks for letting us know this vital information.
Which is why nobody cares about GOP opinions and why most of the world thinks you are retarded. Like it or not, you live with people different from you, and you need to learn to play nice and compromise. I’m not saying to give up your morals completely, but meet in the middle and come up with something that works for both of you.
Either your username is meta, or you need the Billy Goats Gruff to bring some clarity to your life under the bridge.
What part of liberalism do you disagree with?
Are you anti-capitalist?
Do you think all citizens should not have equal rights under the law?
Do you think government should have a more intrusive role in private life or business?
Do you oppose what the founding fathers of America created?
Are you just confusing Liberalism, which is an ideology, with progressivism (the actual opposite of conservative?)
Might want to calibrate your use of “liberal” for your audience.
Im curious if they oppose the ideology or if they think it’s the opposite if conservative because American schools do a bad job of teaching most philosophy.
One problem is the GOP has been taken over and continually converted to MAGA; it started with calling people “RINOs,” attacking each other for party purity.
“Democrats fall in love; Republicans fall in line.”
Wow you have met them all? Incredible how some have time to deeply understand and meet a full nation worth of people.
Little reminder: Those people you are alienating, those as per your and Lemmy judgement “Nazi, racists, uneducated, homophobic, traitors, fascists, unethical, uncompassionate and misogynistic” are voters with as much rights as you have to decide the course of the nation
And guess what, YOU NEED THEM.
Not in the sense of WOW WE NEED THEIR VOTES MAYBE WE SHOULD NOT TREAT THEN LIKE SHIT kind of thing, although you actually DO need those votes.
I mean in the sense that these are the standard blue collar, hard workers of the country. Those plumbers, electricians, waste disposal, street sweepers, truck drivers, and so on
You know, the people? The workers that the Dems and libs cry daily to protect their rights?
Well those are the ones you are alienating with your message. The common man.
Dems have become the party of the coastal elites. You can’t cry against the stablishment because you became the stablishment.
So, it is alrighty if you think that alienating and pushing them common people outside of your leftist bubble is working for your cause.
But remember why you lost the election. Try to understand why if “we think the others are SO BAD and shout it into the wind, why didn’t we win?”
Because until you answer that question, you’ll be kept surely in permanent stunlock.
So go, sure. Protest, picket and outrage against every little thing they do. Tire yourselves. Double down on the name calling.
That surely will work wonders
No. Liberals are not in a position to judge. Genocide is the worst possible crime. And at the very least, every Harris voter decided genocide support wasn’t a dealbreaker. So they know exactly what it is to set their morals aside to support their demagogue. They’ve lost any right to claim the moral high ground.
Now if you didn’t vote for either Harris or Trump? Judge away.
history won’t do shit if it’s controlled by tech billionaires until they destroy the planet.
We supported Trump because we believe that Biden’s policies have had a detrimental impact on our country. Over the past four years, those of us who work hard for a living have faced significant challenges. Inflation has skyrocketed to the point where basic necessities like housing, food, and healthcare are out of reach for many. My son, for example, would have to work far harder than I ever did just to afford rent. We voted for a better future for the working class.
In contrast, the previous administration has shown a lack of morals, ethics, and compassion for humanity. The support of actions that led to the loss of countless Palestinian lives raises serious ethical concerns. It’s important to reflect on how Biden’s actions impact the world and the people who suffer as a result. Blaming a president who is advocating for the wellbeing of hardworking Americans misses the larger issue at hand. It’s essential to focus on the real challenges facing our nation, rather than directing blame toward individuals who are working to create a better future for the people of this country.
America held an election. Democracy made a choice. All those that stand against democracy will also be judged by history.
It gets even more basic than that.
Trump is just plain repulsive.
The most successful tactic of the right has been judging the left for their politics - “woke” etc. The left needs to be similarly unabashed.
But it needs to be more fun and less serious than this post. Why is there no “screaming maga” meme? Surely there’s plenty of those images, and more.
I’m going to continue judging them for the party they belong to because its a valid proxy for all the other stuff.
You have the freedom to decide, you do not have the freedom from the consequences on your decisions.
History will look back at the American empire and judge all its complicit civilians equally. It’s Democrat vanity that makes them think they’re not in the same genocidal boat as Republicans.
its not like voting for scum like biden and harris is moral when they murder thousands of children for aipac money. trump is doing exactly what dnc does to poor non-white countries. now cry because you were happy when done to someone.
israel has done far far worse warcrimes than russia in ukraine but still no mention or criticism of it in western media. everyone crying only now and silent during biden is also self-absorbed racist hypocrite.
People cast their vote for a variety of complicated reasons, often against their own interests. Someone might be stupid because they voted for a bad ticket but I don’t think they are necessarily immoral.
These old norms like not judging others for their politics used to function fine before social media propagated and the culture wars flared up. I’d be hesitant to throw the old norms away, even in our current circumstances, because after they go there’s no guarantee you’ll ever get them back.
it’s really not about blaming voters anymore. that ship sailed. i had been calling for a conservative purge for the last 10 years but nobody listened to me. i don’t know if we can stop what’s coming now.
I thought we stopped doing that that in 2003
Exactly why the vote is secret
Stop, you dont need to dive bomb them, gal!
Kyrgizion@lemmy.world 2 months ago
America is waking up to the reality, as Germany once did, that 1/3 of their population wants to kill another 1/3 while the other 1/3 watches and stands by.
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 2 months ago
The tools that were used to drive Germany to madness are much the same we’re seeing today. A lot of that first 1/3 is being bombarded with mass media saying “Black people are trying to kill you! Leftists are trying to rob you! The Evil Biden Government is trying to transgender your children!” over and over and over for decades on end.
This isn’t just Americans waking up one morning and deciding to be MAGA chuds. It is a product of two generations of intense right-wing propaganda through every avenue of mass media.
djsoren19@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 months ago
It’s also Americans not doing anything about it for the last two generations. The right-wing propoganda machine has been a threat for literally my entire life, but it has been allowed to complete its ultimate goal without anyone actually trying to stop it.
stickly@lemmy.world 2 months ago
That’s the one thing that gives me hope: their views changed radically but only in one generation through concentrated, directed effort. Calling people idiots or sheep misses the point that this is the natural result of exposing people to this shit daily. Nobody in history ever thought people are inherently rational and considerate, society is held together through a culture that reinforces it. The tools of the information age can rapidly and drastically shape our society however we want it, we just need to pull them out of the hands of those billionaires burning civilisation to the ground for their own benefit.
EldritchFeminity@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 months ago
Your message is true, but your stats are off. Trump only got something like 15% of the total voting population in the US and won by like 1.5% of the vote. Studies say that historically, 60% of Americans are more liberal than the government - and that includes when Democrats have been in power.
Conservatives are a minority, and the MAGA crazies even more so. They just shout really loudly to convince everybody that they’re a majority. The real issue is that 50% or so of Americans simply don’t care enough to vote against fascism or care more about maintaining the facade of order than freedom. Like MLK said, the biggest threat to equal rights isn’t the white supremacist, but the white liberal who cares more about a negative peace than true justice.
Feathercrown@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Your numbers don’t seem right to me. He got ~45% of registered voters and ~28% of adults. Where’s your 15% from?