Lemmy is a lot weirder of a place when you start to realize instances are like virtual nation-states and the admin teams are ALL despotic auth-rulers with the temperaments of toddlers.
Hexbear is incapable of understanding hypocrisy
Submitted 3 weeks ago by Assassassin@lemmy.dbzer0.com to mildlyinfuriating@lemmy.world
https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/pictrs/image/288d4baf-d267-4568-a88e-6eba3020c9e5.webp
Comments
SailorFuzz@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 weeks ago
the astronaut meme but its ‘wait that is how almost everything ever has worked this whole time?’
lemmy just fundamentally attempts to accept that that is basically how people work, when you boil things down, and tries to provide mechanisms to manage this somewhat less insanely.
Assassassin@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 weeks ago
For real. I can’t even keep up with what db0’s weird ass mod stances are. I just wanna look at memes and chat with people
fizzle@quokk.au 2 weeks ago
db0 seems fixated on complex governance arrangements. We get it. You’re an anarchist. Amazing.
Gullible@sh.itjust.works 3 weeks ago
Our admins are lovely but severely overworked. Most admin teams I’ve interacted with are kind but overladen. Some are definitely emotionally stunted but I definitely wouldn’t establish that as a rule
FosterMolasses@leminal.space 2 weeks ago
I feel like this is an overly extreme take. Coming off of being on reddit for years I am astounded on a day to day with just how much I can actually get away with saying on Lemmy and expressing myself here. I find myself continuously reflecting on the fact that even in my most liberal (in the literary sense) takes with others, I’m still holding back, sugarcoating, or discounting things as “worth saying” at least 30% of the time. I don’t know what’s going on over on piefed, but Lemmy as a whole has been the opposite of authoritarian censorship for me. I’ve never felt more outspoken in an online presence.
zr0@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 weeks ago
People fail to understand that exactly this is the concept of a federation. You only agree on a few things, in this case the software, everything else, however, is fully individual.
Federation is not the solution here. The only solution that would work is peer to peer - no hosts at all, pure anarchy.
yermaw@sh.itjust.works 3 weeks ago
Is there such a place?
I suspect I wouldn’t like it but I’d like to see it in action
Mora@pawb.social 3 weeks ago
are like virtual nation-states and the admin teams are ALL despotic auth-rulers with the temperaments of toddlers
So just like the big ones minus the capitalistic machine…
pewgar_seemsimandroid@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 week ago
simdem?
FosterMolasses@leminal.space 2 weeks ago
me watching the constant mill of fediverse drama between hexbear/piefed/world/dbzer0 from a tiny irrelevant instance
Assassassin@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
Does your instance have open signups? I’m pretty tired of the assumptions people make about me due to db0
Allero@lemmy.today 2 weeks ago
Can join ours. Not small, but completely neutral - no drama, no defederation, no prejudice towards the users.
Personal choice is paramount here. Crafted with love, peacefully housing people all across the political spectra.
philpo@feddit.org 2 weeks ago
Join feddit.org - a public charity/NGO, based in vienna, working for the fediverse.
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today 2 weeks ago
same here, i tried to understand the dbzero/pefed drama, its all tankies trying argue with the ADMINS how thier misinformation harrasments, and peddling isnt what they claim. that staments users was up to something a few months ago with the piefed admins, i assume he leans into tankie territoriy.
Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml 2 weeks ago
Anything’s possible when you make shit up
MrQuallzin@pie.eyeofthestorm.place 2 weeks ago
Same. I spun up a PieFed instance just for little ol’ me, but this drama is way beyond me
RVGamer06@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
lmao me
mic_check_one_two@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
The funny part is that as a db0 user, I haven’t even really seen the drama. I’ve seen people talking about the drama, but the only thing I’ve directly seen has been when the db0 admins got banned. Which seemed pretty funny on a petty level, but also raises a lot of questions about whether or not they’d still be able to effectively moderate if they’re banned from instances that their users are still interacting on.
Like if piefed were to ban a db0 admin, could that db0 admin still see (and take action) when a piefed user is causing trouble on db0? Does the ban hide piefed users, and potentially allow them to break db0 rules with impunity? Or inversely, piefed would have no right to complain about db0 users causing trouble on piefed communities if the db0 admins can’t see it to take action. If I were to go post something bad on piefed, could the db0 admins see it to take action against me? I’m honestly not sure how the mod tools would work in that instance, especially if the ban prevents the banned admin from seeing the offending posts in either direction.
I’m not saying instance admins should have carte blanche to do whatever they want without risk of getting banned. But banning an admin should probably be considered more heavily than simply banning a regular user, especially if you’re still planning on remaining federated with that instance.
I can see an argument being made that an admin ban should automatically defederate the admin’s instance, unless the mod tools still allow the banned admin to police their own users. But even then, allowing the banned admin to circumvent the ban using mod tools runs the risk of completely defeating the purpose of the ban. Because it would essentially allow the banned admin to evade (or at least partially evade) the ban by falling back to the mod tools instead. For instance, what if an admin was banned for stalking or harassing a user, but the admin tools still allow the banned admin to stalk and harass that user? In that case, the banning instance has made a good faith attempt to protect their user from the banned admin, and the built-in tools are preventing that action from being effective. Or inversely, what if one instance admin bans another, to attempt to hide their activities on the banned admin’s home instance? If the db0 admin is banned from piefed, can they still see piefed users who interact with db0 communities? If not, that could easily be abused to enable brigading/raiding/takeovers/etc.
It’s a tricky game of push and pull. One side of me wants to say that banning an instance admin shouldn’t prevent them from seeing your instance at all, because you’re still federated. Stop them from posting or commenting as a regular user, but still allow them to do admin things like police their users’ comments. After all, if you’re still federated, they should be fully able to police their own users. If db0’s admin can’t see activity on piefed, piefed loses the right to complain when db0 users cause trouble on piefed.
But that runs the risk of making bans seem pointless, and would push admins towards defederation instead. Especially since basically anyone can spin up an instance and become their own admin. And (at least in my mind) defederation should be a last resort, not a first choice. Because defederation has the potential to affect vast swaths of the fediverse, not just the admin directly.
db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
Banned admins can still see instance users from the instance that banned them, but in lemmy at least our moderation actions get silently dropped. I don’t know if that’s true of piefed, but if it is, it means that any malicious users from other instances we handle won’t be moderated when viewed by piefed. E.g a spammer’s posts would still remain visible on their side
TotallyWorthLife@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Ah, drama I’m not chronixally online enough to understsnd.
FiniteBanjo@feddit.online 2 weeks ago
Lemmy is a reddit-style forum framework on the fediverse. People clone a copy and launch their own instances which can communicate with each other, so that no one person can rule over it.
So theres these guys who want China to win a nuclear war and the enslavement of trans people into labor camps, Lemmy ML and Hexbear. They are the Lemmy Developers and all money for lemmy development goes to them.
Then theres this Rimu dude who started development of PieFed which is just another framework to do the same exact thing that Lemmy does and they communicate with each other flawlessly, which makes the Tankies super duper angry because they wanted you to fund their autocratic ideology and help them spread propaganda.
Swedneck@discuss.tchncs.de 2 weeks ago
incorrect: my instance is just the admin manually reading and outputting bits furiously, like the telegraph operator in Lucky Luke
TotallyWorthLife@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Ohhh shit, thanks for updating me on the whole situation. Guess I’ll have to take a look at Lemmy and PieFed, and their devs, and see where I want to stand lol
HobbitFoot@thelemmy.club 2 weeks ago
Don’t you understand, the Fediverse is serious business!
Luisp@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
Apparently there was an argument that resulted in piefed mods banning all leftists instances, including myself…
TotallyWorthLife@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Ah, so basically the same problem there is on Reddit with power-tripping mods that manage several subreddits
TowardsTheFuture@lemmy.zip 3 weeks ago
Okay but this is funny.
Assassassin@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 weeks ago
Oh, I’m not actually irritated about it, I just couldn’t find a better place to post it lol. I got a good laugh about it and I figured posting it somewhere would lead to more laughs from the tankies
Klear@piefed.world 3 weeks ago
There’s always !tankiejerk@piefed.social and !MeanwhileOnGrad@sh.itjust.works
FiniteBanjo@feddit.online 3 weeks ago
No sane person would be mad about not being able to interact with Tankies.
obre@slrpnk.net 3 weeks ago
What’s the “PPB” list?
garth@sh.itjust.works 3 weeks ago
PPB is “Pig Pooping on Balls.” One of hexbear’s favorite reaction photos is a pig with testicles so large they stick out back, so the pig literally poops on its own balls.
So I guess they have a list of users they see as helpless, ignorant pigs. Delightful bunch, those hexbears.
possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
This is so on point for hexbear
neidu3@sh.itjust.works 3 weeks ago
Heh, someone downvoted you as if they think you made that up. Can’t blame them for that assumption.
Objection@lemmy.ml 2 weeks ago
It’s a joke that went over OP’s head.
He came to Hexbear to sling shit and get banned so that he’d have something to whine about.
One user, recognizing the irony, made a joke about Hexbear having it’s own list. A mod thought the joke was funny and decided to commit to the bit by putting it in the modlog, while also limiting it to a 24 hour ban.
That way, he got the ban he went looking for and he gets to make this post, but he also looks completely ridiculous whining about it to anyone paying attention.
DecorativeTarp@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
I was giggling at just the 📝 reply when I originally saw the thread.
Assassassin@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 weeks ago
🤷 who cares? Obviously it’s the list that anyone that dares speak against the CCP goes on
Diva@lemmy.ml 2 weeks ago
oh no a 24 hour ban!
idk how this is hypocrisy, you got plenty of responses for some of the lowest effort trolling i’ve seen
Assassassin@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
And yet here you are, continuing to take the bait. Y’all just can’t help yourselves 😂
Diva@lemmy.ml 2 weeks ago
banning someone for 24h for obvious trolling is way less authoritarian than whatever rimu’s up to
8oow3291d@feddit.dk 2 weeks ago
oh no a 24 hour ban!
So they didn’t do the worst censorship they could possibly do. But it is still censorship.
Objection@lemmy.ml 2 weeks ago
I know, it’s absolutely tragic, the sacred flame of truth extinguished by the sinister, authoritarian mods, controlling the unwashed masses of users by keeping them ignorant of such enlightened comments as, “lol hexbear sux.”
Diva@lemmy.ml 2 weeks ago
it was a joke, as is calling a 24h ban ‘censorship’
Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml 2 weeks ago
Censorship is like most “bad” things in that when it happens to bad people it is actually a completely good thing, like multiplying two negative numbers
webkitten@piefed.social 2 weeks ago
It’s always fascinating how the debate bros think they’re entitled to someone debating them.
x00z@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
Lmao. There’s so many layers to this.
Assassassin@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 weeks ago
The replies to my comment on that post are my favorite. Truly zero self awareness.
Objection@lemmy.ml 2 weeks ago
The fact that you think the replies weren’t self aware is the funniest part of all this.
Like, you actually think they just randomly decided to describe banning you (for 24 hours btw) as “putting you on a list” under a post about a banlist, and it wasn’t an intentional reference?
If you actually stopped and thought about it for like two seconds, you’d get the joke, but you’re so caught up in your original thought of, “I’ll get myself banned to show how hypocritical they are” that you missed it completely.
BlackLaZoR@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
You can’t debate a takie. Debating them is like hitting a head against the wall. The best you can do is to purge them out
Diva@lemmy.ml 2 weeks ago
Assassassin@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
Or become the wall they hit their heads against
taygaloocat@leminal.space 2 weeks ago
I got banned from memes.ml cuz I kept saying how fucking stupid some of the shit they said was
13igTyme@piefed.social 3 weeks ago
Who’s Rimu?
SooperGoose@thelemmy.club 3 weeks ago
I don’t know who this is but I’m here for the tea
whaleross@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
Totalitarians are more alike than different from eachother.
Schwim@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
I’m convinced Hexbear exists only as an instance blocking tutorial for new lemmy users.
Etterra@discuss.online 2 weeks ago
So wait, a guy who sucks made a thing I don’t use and if I complain about him he’ll ban me from using it?
That’s a long road to a big pile of “who gives a fuck?”
pewgar_seemsimandroid@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 week ago
tere’s someone named “lemmygradeontallowme” btw
Sanctus@anarchist.nexus 3 weeks ago
Its working guys. The decentralization is working. I for one think its amazing that we’ve created these little social medias to fight like Pokémon and nobody can stop us.
FiniteBanjo@feddit.online 3 weeks ago
I actually don’t think the Lemmy Platform decentralization is working at all. This is evidenced by the fact that several times the tankie lemmy devs have pushed a top of the site banner to beg for donations to help run Lemmy ml, and most instance owners admit they’re not equipped to audit the code and remove it.
I think Piefed is a superior solution for that reason.
Sanctus@anarchist.nexus 3 weeks ago
The admins should have a choice in the banner, but each Lemmy instance is also using that software for free and should, in the spirit of Floss, give back. Thats really all I’ll say about that because I’m not an admin nor am I a dev for either software.
Melvin_Ferd@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
Need to nuke mods all over. Go to 100% community ownership. Why the fuck any lefty accepts mods is beyond me.
Miaou@jlai.lu 2 weeks ago
Piefed has its share of problems, I wouldn’t argue they’re better. Or at least not better enough to warrant a migration
Swedneck@discuss.tchncs.de 2 weeks ago
let’s not pretend like this is worse than the situation with reddit, this is like switching from pants filled with shit to pants that periodically piss themselves a bit
Yeah it’s not good, but good lord it’s so much better
neidu3@sh.itjust.works 3 weeks ago
A wild lemmygrad appears.
Which instance do you choose as counter?
Sanctus@anarchist.nexus 3 weeks ago
I’ll trade you a shiny piefed.zip and one of my quokku’s for it. Tryna complete my lemmydex.
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today 2 weeks ago
Uses ban move, protects from criticism.
SpookyBogMonster@lemmy.ml 2 weeks ago
HEXBEAR! I CHOOSE YOU!
USE PIGPOOPBALLS!!!
Car@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
I miss ppb. It was like a modern day rickroll but not in any way unexpected from hexbear
corsicanguppy@lemmy.ca 3 weeks ago
That’s already plural. It’s like what on a hat.
sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 weeks ago
Ahem.
Mentlegen.
Image
ruuster13@lemmy.zip 3 weeks ago
Can we please make it be “social’s media”?
Sanctus@anarchist.nexus 3 weeks ago
I can’t say\read\type media without hearing “medias” in a 2 IQ southern american accent. Sorry.
0_o7@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
It is in-fact working. No one is banned by their own instance for aligning with their opinion. If they are banned by a different instance, they can create their own community in their instance. Block them, block their instance, do fuck all to never hear from them again.
I know there are a lots of shills from mothership throwing shade on decentralization but this is what actual “freedom” on the internet is like that hasn’t been around since forums disappeared.
If this ain’t for you. GTFO.
jimmy90@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
lots of little islands of censorship
great
glimse@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
You’re right we should all just go back to the centralized mainland of censorship