He took it literally

Comments

• Mac@mander.xyz ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  FYI:

  Later, at his trial, prosecutors told jurors that his silence in the face of that question showed that he was guilty,

  en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berghuis_v._Thompkins

  Understand how to invoke your right to remain silent and what consequences silence or otherwise may have–especially if improperly used.

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  • Derpenheim@lemmy.zip ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    Invoking your fifth amendment cannot be used to as evidence against you in a criminal court, but it can be used in civil cases. Its called adverse inference. Basically in a civil court if you refuse to provide information, it can be used against you to decide a fine or penalty. But it cannot lead to your incarceration under a criminal indictment. Griffin V California from '65

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    • ricecake@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      Yes, but the case being referenced involved what it means to invoke your fifth amendment rights.
      Is remaining silent invoking the right, or do you have to state “I am invoking the right to remain silent”, or some other statement?

      Per the supreme Court, you can’t passively invoke the right and can only do so actively. So simply not answering a question isn’t invoking the fifth amendment and could be used against you.

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    • halvar@lemy.lol ⁨23⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      That’s pretty good to know, as far as I understand the fifth is to be used exclusively in the context of presumption of innocence and protection of civils from authority. It would be very fucked up if some jerk would turn it on it’s head and argue that you not saying some shit that may incriminate you as far as you know is actually incriminating itself. That’s how oppressive regimes work.

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  • JackbyDev@programming.dev ⁨5⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    How?

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    • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      I mean, it’s fun to believe there’s this One Neat Trick to avoid being wrongfully convicted. If you’re just smart enough, educated enough, and cool in the moment, you can outfox the police, the DA, and the judge using a proven formula laid out in the US Constitution.

      But then you hear how these stories play out - cops outright lying to people they’re interviewing, DAs lying about what you’re being accused of, defense attorneys working with the prosecution, suspects being held for days or weeks without habeas corpus, suspects being threatened, suspects being tortured, suspects being lynched in their cells.

      There’s no “winning move” absent having friends on the outside of the system willing and able to lobby on your behalf.

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    • Godric@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      “I invoke my right to remain silent”

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• Sendpicsofsandwiches@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  Because everyone thinks they’re just going to either explain what happened and it’ll all be fine (it won’t), or they think they can just weave a great big lie and the cops will buy it (they won’t). Don’t talk to the police without an attourney. If you’re in that chair, it’s because they want to implicate you in some way, regardless of right or wrong. While they might throw a fit about it, refusing to speak without an attourney present is your right and is in no way an admission of guilt.

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  • hoshikarakitaridia@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    Either that, or police use the Reid technique and subject you to interrogation and psychological torture for multiple days while keeping you in maximum security in prison, of course unfortunately without any recording (a lá Richard Allen - and what a tank he was, withstood their interrogation for superhuman amounts of time until they finally broke him).

    So yeah there’s 2 ways: corrupt police departments and criminals that are way too confident.

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  • BorgDrone@feddit.nl ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    Just leaving this here.

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  • binarytobis@lemmy.world ⁨20⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    explain what happened and it’ll all be fine (it won’t)

    A few times during traffic stops when I was younger (white male), I was so defenseless and trusting that in retrospect I can tell the cops were befuddled and just let me go even though I admitted to an infraction.

    That said, I wouldn’t try it again.

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    • TubularTittyFrog@lemmy.world ⁨6⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      a town next to the one i grew up in was notorious for asshole cops. i got stopped there multiple times as a teenager under false traffic bullshit ‘you ran a red’ etc. we were dumb and just let the cops search our cars and accuse us of being high and etc. they found nothing, but usually let us go after trying to intimidate us for an hour.

      i think they just want us to freak out or cry or something. they usually got pissed off with our polite compliance.

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  • mnemonicmonkeys@sh.itjust.works ⁨22⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    and the cops will buy it (they won’t).

    The vast majority of cops are really dumb, so I disagree with thus statement. However, cops are highly motivated to not give a shit about whether a suspect is actually guilty. They’re motivated to get a confession or conviction, regardless of innocence or guilt.

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    • LH0ezVT@sh.itjust.works ⁨17⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      Assuming the cops are dumb (enough) is a really risky strategy. And even if you are lucky and they are, they might just end up making a lucky guess.

      Plus, they’ve been through this game hundreds of times, while you most likely have quite limited experience with the system (hopefully). Never underestimate that.

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• Nioxic@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨18⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  Depends where you live

  I heard about a guy in my country who admitted to have murdered someone

  but the police couldn’t prove he did it - so he walked.

  They then later found the real killer. the first guy “confessed” to it because he thought he didn’t have any other way out.

  The police have to prove it - a confession can be unrealiable

  at least where i live. in the US people are threatened with jail-time by the police, just to force a confession, so they can close the case and move on. Even though the police doesn’t throw people in jail… a judge does.

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  • Psythik@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    Yes this only works in the US. No matter what they say, the only words that should be coming out of your mouth is “I would like to speak with a lawyer”. And then close your mouth. Police in the US are allowed to lie to you to get the information you need, but asking for a lawyer right at the start shuts the entire conversation down before they even get a chance to do so. In the US.

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• ceenote@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  FYI, you need to say “I’m invoking my right to remain silent” or similar before going quiet. Just shutting your mouth and refusing to say absolutely anything will make it worse.

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  • YouAreLiterallyAnNPC@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    Ah, right. The Supreme Court decided we only get to have the rights we can remember under any given circumstance. Don’t let the cops catch you sleeping. Totally normal stuff in a totally normal democracy. Not at all a sign of any sort.

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  • TragicNotCute@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    This is not entirely accurate.

    If you clam up pre-Miranda warning, it can be used against you (if you didn’t specifically exercise your rights).

    Case law about this: supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/570/178/

    Post-Miranda warning, there’s no issue. The warning literally advises you of your right to be silent.

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    • ricecake@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      That’s not entirely accurate:

      en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berghuis_v._Thompkins

      Your fifth amendment rights haven’t been invoked until you say so. The Miranda warning isn’t a guide for how to invoke the rights, just a notification that you have them.

      Now, it’s ridiculous that we’ve ended up here and it was a terrible ruling, both of them, but if you’re just quiet you haven’t invoked your right to silence anymore than you’ve invoked your right to legal counsel.
      Which is a hell of a position for the court to take on coerced confessions.

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  • derry@midwest.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    “I declare bankruptcy!”

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• DeathByBigSad@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  Yo I swear to god.

  So I got arrested for “aggravated assult” because I defended myself against a racist bully in highschool

  And you know what the fuck did my mom do, start fucking discussing about the details of case during the parent meeting thing.

  And also like literally the next day when I had to go to the juvenile court system thing, my mom keeps saying a bunch of shit to the court staff, WHO IS NOT THE PUBLIC DEFENDER BTW.

  Mom wtf, are your stupid. Are you TRYING to fuck it up even more? Shut the fuck up.

  Literally I keep trying to tell her to shut the fuck up, stoping mentioning details other than just simply deny the allegations.

  (Charges ended up dropped)

  Also btw, I start using a non-english language and the court staff immediately got more aggressive with their tone and treated me as though I was conspiring with mom about something. Xenophobic pieces of shit court system.

  I’m glad I had Citizenship, the system would literally attempt to deport a minor over a school fight. Cruel as fuck.

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  • Holytimes@sh.itjust.works ⁨21⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    I mean strictly speaking by using a language other than the native one of the court you were conspiring with your mother.

    Conspiring is just planning or acting jointly with another in secret in its most mundane form.

    If your hiding your conversation by changing the language that is text book boring mundane conspiracy.

    Even if you didn’t intend to hide it, you were in fact doing so. It’s entirely understandable for a court to demand you speak the language of the court or have a translator present to ensure everyone understands.

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    • alsimoneau@lemmy.ca ⁨12⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      “the native one of the court” but the US doesn’t have an official language

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    • DeathByBigSad@sh.itjust.works ⁨20⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      I don’t think I was technically in a court room.

      It’s… okay I’m no laywer, but it felt more like just some court staff reading out / explaining the charges in a small room, it didn’t really feel like a court hearing or anything, at least it didn’t seem like it.

      I honestly was so confused af and wasn’t sure what was happening.

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• mkwt@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  Funnily enough, the supreme court ruled that you cannot invoke your right to remain silent by remaining silent. You have to actually say something about “I want a lawyer.”

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  • lightnsfw@reddthat.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    Why the fuck do you have to invoke it at all? It’s a right. They should all be invoked by default.

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    • moody@lemmings.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      Because they wanted to prosecute a guy who used that right, and they decided it needed to be reinterpreted to suit their desires.

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    • ricecake@sh.itjust.works ⁨23⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      The (obviously flawed) reasoning the supreme Court used is that it’s the same as invoking the right to legal counsel: we tend to accept that you need to ask for a lawyer, they don’t just get you one. Likewise, if you want them to stop asking you questions you need to say so.

      Considering the right isn’t the “right to remain silent” we nickname it, but No person shall be … compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, it’s a bit preposterous. Like saying it was a legal warrantless search because you never said “stop”, you just locked the doors, tried to keep them out, and tried to keep them out of certain areas.

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• ElcaineVolta@kbin.melroy.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  he wasn't so silent when he voluntarily went on the news and basically let everyone know he was involved by having a panic attack on live tv.

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• stringere@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  Who is this and does that matter for the sake of the post?

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  • sharkfucker420@lemmy.ml ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    iirc he murdered a woman and scattered her body parts in trash cans on a college campus. I might be thinking of someone else because it has been a while but I pretty sure this is the guy. They spent hours trying to interrogate him and he effectively said nothing while remaining uncannily still.

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    • Diddlydee@feddit.uk ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      The sped up video where you see him not move at all for ages is quite unnerving.

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    • FudgyMcTubbs@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      Here’s a link to the wiki, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Lauren_Giddings?w…

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    • stringere@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      Thanks for the context

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• joyjoy@lemmy.zip ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  Your silence will be used against you.

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  • gustofwind@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    It actually legally can be used against you if you go silent before being told you have the right to stay silent

    The logic being…why would someone go silent before they’ve even been officially warned about it

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    • DeathByBigSad@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      I think the problem is more like:

      They trick you into talking about the weather, then suddenly be like: “Yea, such a great weather, it’s such a shame that the victim couldn’t enjoy seeing this because you murdered the victim”

      Then you remain silent without verbally invoking the right to remain silent

      So the prosecutors are gonna be like: “SEE, HE IS GUILTY SINCE HE SUDDENTLY BECAME QUIET!”

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  • mindbleach@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    The nature of bad faith is that there is no right asnwer.

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• Hubi@feddit.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  I wouldn’t call life in prison “win”.

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• hoch@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  I remember this interrogation. Fatso on the left kept getting in his face, telling him to make eye contact, so dude stared into his soul for the entire rest of the interview without moving. The detective ended up getting uncomfortable and had to lean back in his seat hahaha. Homie was creepy as hell.

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• timewarp@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  Thanks for the soda & snacks, but the only person I’m talking to is my attorney.

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• shalafi@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  My wife watches these shows. I want to scream at the white trash morons incriminating themselves. This is why I wear ear plugs and read a book in bed.

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