Submitted 23 hours ago by Patnou@lemmy.world to [deleted]
Read up on The Great Awakening in the USA.
You had large parts of the USA without an established church and a lot of religious freedom. So, you had pastors able to preach whatever they wanted without government intervention. This free market Jesus produced a lot of religious diversity. Some pastors used this as an opportunity to turn religion into a business.
It’s always been a business. Even in biblical times. The only time Jesus got violent in the Bible, was when he beat the shit out of the money lenders doing business in the temple.
Crazy how the only thing to cause the son of God to fly into a violent rage was unfettered capitalism
The question was kind of vague in terms of what part of Christianity he was questioning, but it seems to be focused on how churches currently function. At that point, I figured I’d focus on prosperity gospel for some US churches, which is a uniquely American phenomenon.
To just say “religion has always been like that” may bury understanding on how the current form came into being.
There are several passages that suggest money & Christianity aren’t aligned. Several passages in Acts talk about the disciples selling everything after Jesus passes and living as a commune with no private property. It says they sold & shared everything together.
There’s the camel & needle proverb. There’s Matthew 25:32. There’s multiple passages that speak of selling what you own and giving it to the poor. There’s Jesus throwing the merchants out in the temple.
When did Christianity become like this? Probably when power saw it could abuse faith, so hundreds/thousands of years ago. Your instinct is great, and you should challenge Christians. I mentioned Matthew 25:32 because it seems so diametrically opposed to what many Christians in power say. We’re supposed to care for the homeless, the immigrant, the prisoner—that’s what this book says.
James 2:15 states that belief is not enough. Belief without works of faith is empty, the same as no faith at all. People telling you they are a Christian while behaving otherwise should be made aware of this passage.
I say this as a Unitarian Universalist. I study the Bible to inform my beliefs, but they are not defined by them. I do think Jesus has been commodified and warped, and the people in power who tell us we’re a Christian nation in the US have lost sight of scripture. They quote the Old Testament and ignore John 13:34.
I also studied all this so when ICE / this government comes for me, I’ll have my receipts. Maybe it won’t matter, but speaking truth to power is important. If so many people believe this book, why do we act like we do? It’s power’s fault, not religion.
Note, I was an atheist for 20 years. I know all about the ills of religion. UU is not like my Catholic Church growing up. If you haven’t been to UU or a Quaker org, it’s worth your time.
I appreciate seeing the Quaker love on Lemmy! (UUs are awesome too, in my experience!)
It’s a great community and shares a lot with us. More people should know about faith communities doing the good work in the world, rather than swindling their congregations for mega churches with elaborate shows, while telling people “empathy is not Christian.” It’s absurd what’s happening in those congregations right now.
It’s power’s fault, not religion.
I was with you until this.
Religion is a set of beliefs, typically in things beyond what we can falsify (hence faith). It’s not inherently powerful to believe people should be treated with respect. A belief in democracy is a belief in giving others equal power to our own (part of my UU faith).
Unitarian Universalism holds very little power in the world. It’s a beautiful faith tradition. Sure, there are powerful religions, but again, that’s power, not religion.
They pick and choose what they want to follow. Treating everyone kindly, and with humanity? Nah, no way. Slavery? Sure, have at it.
Religions a grift, this fits that ethos.
Because religion, particularly Catholicism/Christianity, are giant grifting operations who promise you better positions in heaven by giving money.
“1-877-Kunts-4-Kriste, K-U-N-T Kunts for Kriste, 1-877-Kunts-4-Kriste, Donate your kash today!”
One of the proposed reasons the Romans adopted Christianity was because the church would help collect taxes. For all of the middle ages the church would be one of 3 instances that “run” a state (estates). Taxes were a big part of that job.
That means the answer to your question was just roughly 1700 years ago.
It has been this way for decades? It blew up when televangelism became a thing.
Sew your seed!
Pretty sure the Catholic Church was collecting money from across Europe to build oppulent fortresses and cathedrals way earlier than the 50 years ago
Fair, I stand corrected 🙂
For me the explanation is simple: there is no logic within religion. Note that the bible says to love one another but also says that slavery is OK and that gay men should be stoned. These things conflict with one-another; you cannot be kind if you have slaves and stone other people, and you cannot have slaves and stone people if you are kind. It is physically impossible to follow all the rules in the bible. Many of its followers do not realize this, so their critical thinking skills are either lacking or damaged from all the BibLe gOoD thumping that they received from a young age. And because their critical thinking skills are damaged, many do not realize the obvious problem with giving money when jesus was, according to the book, not condoning this.
it became a thing because the catholic church was (still is) actually the leftovers of the roman empire, and acted like an empire as a result (the only reason they dont today is because they no longer have the power to crush nations). this lends false legitimacy to others trying to use Christianity as a platform for personal gain.
Note Jesus didn't disdain giving alms, but said the poor widow gave more than rich men, who also flaunted giving. Women and orphans were the beneficiaries of these funds as well, I am guessing, as temple upkeep and scribes, priests maybe, etc.
He was enraged at the selling of animals for sacrifice. I can't imagine it was for usurious rates.
You'd have to further research it on sites that specifically address Jewish law, preferably from Aramaic and Jewish translations. I have fur babies hindering me rn
Because there are three forms of power in this world: politics, violence, and money. Every monolithic entity worth its salt tries to get their serving of all three, and money is often the easiest to obtain.
I’d add sex in there. Seriously.
when televengicals/megachurchs became a thing.
Literal centuries before that, there were indulgences.
It’s not like the church wants to point those parts out and the followers sure aren’t reading the thing.
The 1100s is when an Italian merchant made up a story about the “eye of the needle” being a gate in Jerusalem that a camel could juuuuuuust about squeeze through if the owner bowed their head or something.
Is that lie really that old? Goddamn…
It is, but it’s not any older, which is one of the reasons it’s clearly made up. No one talked about it for over 1000 years then suddenly a guy with something to gain suddenly knows this “fact” about a place he’s never been, and no one else outside of his vicinity can remember it.
How else are we hey going to pay to shuffle the pedo priests from church to church to evade getting locked up.
Religion is the oldest scam in history.
This reminds me of a very old joke I heard from a zizek lecture I think.
How can we be sure that Judas didn’t really betray Jesus Christ? Whatever one thinks about the Jews, they know the value of the things they sell, so no Jew would have sold a god for mere 30 silver talents!
(I hope this isnt offensive to anyone, although i don’t think theres many religious people on Lemmy)
Also.
Two Jewish pass a Catholic church on which a large poster addresses non-Catholics: “Come to us, accept Catholicism, and you instantly get $30,000 in cash!” While walking away, the two friends become engaged in a debate about whether the offer is meant seriously. A week later, the two friends meet again in front of the same church, and one of them confides to the other: “I still wonder if that offer is serious.” The other replies condescendingly: “Ah you Jews, all you think about is money!”
Let me know if people want this deleted and I’ll do it. Don’t wanna be a provocateur today.
Two beggars are sitting side by side on a street in Rome.
One has a cross in front of him; the other one the Star of David. Many people go by and look at both beggars, but only put money into the hat of the beggar sitting behind the cross.
A priest comes by, stops and watches throngs of people giving money to the beggar behind the cross, but none give to the beggar behind the Star of David.
Finally, the priest goes over to the beggar behind the Star of David and says, “My poor fellow, don’t you understand? This is a Catholic country; this city is the seat of Catholicism. People aren’t going to give you money if you sit there with a Star of David in front of you, especially when you’re sitting beside a beggar who has a cross. In fact, they would probably give to him just out of spite.”
The beggar behind the Star of David listened to the priest, turned to the other beggar with the cross and said: “Moishe, look who’s trying to teach the Goldstein brothers about marketing.”
Good religious people generally keep it to themselves unless specifically asked lol.
“Good religious people” aka friends and enablers of pedos.
You are the company you keep. Especially the ones being evangelical about putting their religion into politics and forcing others to live under their dichotomy.
This is extremely xenophobic.
Ask Martin Luther
I mean all churches need funding to run and it comes from their members. Mega churches are another thing, run for money
I think that a shiny golden calf will always trick the good into becoming the bad. Trump splashing that gilded gold shit everywhere made him quite successful. /s
Most Christians don’t really care what the Bible says, regardless of how much they like to pretend they do.
they dont care, because dont read it at all, or they read and choose a specific passage and forget everything else. i notice thier preaching almost never uses bible verses, its almost always guilt tripping people.
I reject the idea that there is a correct way to read the Bible or worship Jesus. I certainly prefer liberation theology to prosperity Gospel, but I cannot say that one is doing Christianity better than the other.
I used to be Christian and I had all kinds of ideas about what was correct Christianity. I abandoned all that when I realized that those conceptions were much more about me than they were about Jesus or the Bible.
And I think that’s true of the practicing faithful. Some are good, some are wicked, but the difference isn’t in how they read the Bible, it’s who is reading the Bible.
These aren’t christians. The money behind jesusism is absurd. I am beyond quite confident that there would be no appreciation in that camp. Aaaaaand the absolute last thing Jesus is gonna wanna do is see a fucking cross. Are you kidding me? The fuck is wrong with people.? A lotta sick fucks ot there for sure. I’m sure Jesus has better things to do than reminisce about 2,000 some years ago. I don’t think it was a pleasant experience if’n my history stands correct.
Those absolutely are. Just because they don’t fit into your made up subcategory of Christianity that you put yourself into does not mean that’s not what the majority of this religion cult is.
I don’t identify as Christian. I didn’t make up a sub category. If one does their research, one can understand how the merging of evangelical Christianity and the republican party has been fusing tighter & tighter together for over 50 years. Christian nationalism grew exponentially under Reagan in the 80’s. Unfortunately many of the non evangelical/ nationalist christians are too afraid to separate the wheat from the chaff when it comes to theological differences. I believe blanket statements about something as complex as religion as in the previous comment are indicators of a well groomed ignorant public.
These aren’t christians.
They absolutely are.
Why couldn’t we have just done this in the first place?
I mean I grew up with the tammy fay baker stuff so way before my time and im old.
Churches still have bills to pay. Just because they are exempt from some taxes doesn’t mean they are bills exempt.
Can’t be close to Jesus without a private jet!
Not all churches are like that. Are there some? Yes. But let’s be real
When a neighbor was in the hospital for a week, their small church took $200 from their funds to help them buy groceries.
That’s just them investing in a new cult member. A business expense.
Religion preys on the poor and needed and makes them morally indebted to them. Just another one of their toxic ways to manipulate people.
a televengelist megachurchs almost never does it though, smaller church denominations do that kind of charity.
i have never heard of that. Which doesn't mean much as there are thousands of differet christian churches and they disagree on many things.
SoftestSapphic@lemmy.world 5 hours ago
The entire idea of literate people needing a pastor to read them the Bible is already going against their beleifs.
Churches are scams that Christians have internalized. Modern Protestant movements have been coopted by grifters.
Orginized religion is a control mechanism from old times that we have left lying around for any old con man to take advantage of.