50 Euros a day is insane. That’s a good portion of what I pay for a whole month.
Price of electricity in Finland peaks at 2.35€/kWh today. Keeping my tiny granny cottage warm costs me over 50 euros for a single day. It's negative 25C (77F) outside.
Submitted 11 months ago by Critical_Insight@feddit.uk to mildlyinfuriating@lemmy.world
https://i.imgur.com/4b4u9eJ.jpg
Comments
waigl@lemmy.world 11 months ago
test113@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Part of it was faulty pricing from a Norwegian electricity exporter. Also, they have almost finished the new infrastructure, so they do not have to import as much in crisis situations. I think a new nuclear power plant goes online and lots of renewable stuff. The problem OP is maybe talking about seems to be very well handled by the state and already solved. helsinkitimes.fi/…/24708-electricity-prices-in-fi…
MigratingApe@lemmy.dbzer0.com 11 months ago
Lucky you. 175 square meters, 25cm styrofoam on walls and 30cm rock wool on ceiling and I pay 200€ per month in winter for gas heating in Poland. Solar panels are not economical in current regulations and billing rules have changed so those with heat pumps pay at least twice us much in coldest months.
chitak166@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Get a space heater.
Mine was $15 at Walmart, heats my room like it’s Spring, and only adds $5 per month to my electricity bill.
HansSlonzok@lemmy.world 11 months ago
wow! i paid 220euros for gas heating and warm water in 78m2 flat in poland in last year.
Administrator@lemm.ee 11 months ago
hey, whats the price for gas per cubic meter in Poland?
Hotzilla@sopuli.xyz 11 months ago
Many are going to pay 200€ today
Psythik@lemmy.world 11 months ago
I will never complain about paying 33¢/kWh for 3 hours a day in the summer ever again.
Critical_Insight@feddit.uk 11 months ago
Tomorrow is back to normal. Even the 37c/kWh spike hardly registers on the graph compared to today even though that’s still pretty expensive.
viking@infosec.pub 11 months ago
Are you actually paying the daily spot price? Not a flat amount with the utility provider taking the hit? That’s how I know it from any other country, unless you have a specific contract where the user made an informed decision to opt for market rates.
Hotzilla@sopuli.xyz 11 months ago
Mainly the reason is that many countries do not have hourly capable meters, so calculating the price for each hour is not possible. Flat rate is needed when you just have the cumulative read once a month.
In Finland the meters communicate automatically once a day, and send the 24h values to grid company. The next generation meters which are now installed can communicate once a hour.
30% of Finns are on spot.
Bronzie@sh.itjust.works 11 months ago
Spot is quite normal in the Nordics. Over all it’s the cheapest, but some days suck obviously.
This summer we had days with negative prices. My bill for July was 78 NOK (about $8). Might have been August when I think about it…
Critical_Insight@feddit.uk 11 months ago
Yeah about 30% of Finns have a plan lile that. It’s bit of an gamble, but on average it’ll be cheaper on the long run.
agressivelyPassive@feddit.de 11 months ago
40c/kWh is a pretty normal price here in Germany…
Ironically, prices are high, because of too much extremely cheap renewables.
the_third@feddit.de 11 months ago
Bullshit. Check the prices around Christmas last year, Germany was running only on renewables on the 24th and I paid .19€/kWh all day long then.
alvvayson@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Do most Finnish people pay spot prices for electricity?
Critical_Insight@feddit.uk 11 months ago
About 30% do
alvvayson@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Interesting.
At these temperatures, I can’t imagine air source heat pumps being very efficient.
I would probably have a spare gas, oil or wood based heater and use that for days like this.
oce@jlai.lu 11 months ago
It’s the first time I hear about final consumers paying spot prices. What’s the reason for it? Ecological activism?
HeartyBeast@kbin.social 11 months ago
I’m surprised that those 30% don’t have batteries to shift load times
ColeSloth@discuss.tchncs.de 11 months ago
Time to install a wood stove.
MaxHardwood@lemmy.ca 11 months ago
How are you using 21kWh/day heating a small home? Do you have any insulation at all?
Blackmist@feddit.uk 11 months ago
Probably because it’s about -35C outside.
Dude is basically living on the set of The Thing at this point.
Critical_Insight@feddit.uk 11 months ago
50kWh and closer to 90kWh on days like this. It’s a log cabin and I’m keeping my root cellar and shed above freezing aswell
bastion@feddit.nl 11 months ago
A tiny heater running all day would do that.
1kw is a small heater. 0.8kw is a tiny one. 0.8x24 is 19.2. Assuming they have other basic appliances, that’s already more than enough to account for their usage.
Agent641@lemmy.world 11 months ago
I like to keep my bedroom a cosy 1600 degrees C
june@lemmy.world 11 months ago
I’ve got a small 1200w heater that kicks on in the morning to bring the living room space up to 69. I live in a 40 year old house that’s insulated fairly well (I just had the attic redone last year to r-49) and it’s 45f outside right now. That little heater has used 6kWh since kicking on this morning getting the house up from 63f to the near 69 it is now.
On a day below freezing that heater will got for a lot longer through the day to keep temps up.
chitak166@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Space heaters are the way to go.
It’s the difference between paying $50 and $5 more per month.
AreaKode@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Heat pumps aren’t designed to function in this low of temperature. The problem is they need a real heater instead of a heat exchanger.
Critical_Insight@feddit.uk 11 months ago
This is such an outdated information. Modern heatpumps work just fine even in temperatures of -20C and below. Ofcourse the efficiency gets worse the colder it is but even at worst it’s still 100% efficient. On a typical year there’s only a handful of really cold days. It doesn’t make sense not to get a heatpump just because it’s inefficient for few days. It’s not like it stops heating or something. It just effectively turns into electric radiator which is what my house was heated with before I got the heatpump anyways.
JimmyMcGill@lemmy.world 11 months ago
There are heat pumps that exchange heat with the ground. Those can function well in more extreme temperatures. Also you could/should have alternative heating methods for extreme situations even if they are much more inneficient
Fosheze@lemmy.world 11 months ago
In colder areas like that the heat pumps are usually ground source so the ambient air temperature doesn’t change the performance much.
GiddyGap@lemm.ee 11 months ago
Outer walls in new homes in the Nordic countries are often 25-30 inches thick filled with insulation. They will keep out some cold (and some heat).
BigDickEnergy@lemmy.dbzer0.com 11 months ago
If you’re in a granny cottage then just burn wood instead? Doing this rn and am very happy to go off-grid for ca. 48 hours
Critical_Insight@feddit.uk 11 months ago
I unfortunelately don’t have a fireplace in my house. It was removed when the house was renovated in the 80’s
Thassodar@lemm.ee 11 months ago
In a place where it’s regularly cold? Whose brilliant idea was that?!
DanglingFury@lemmy.world 11 months ago
At 50 bucks a day it would pay for itself pretty quickly. Not sure what prices are by you but here you can get a brand new big stove with catalytic converter and everything installed for 10k to 12k, or get a decent used stove and have someone install it for 5k ±
RaoulDook@lemmy.world 11 months ago
How about a small propane heater, like a Mr Buddy type unit? Those can be connected to a extension hose and a 20lb propane tank, and are safe to use indoors with adequate ventilation.
I got one for emergency heat, and it can take 2 of the 1lb propane cylinders directly, or the 20lb tank with a hose. The 20lb tank could provide heat for over 24 hours but IDK how expensive propane is there. It cost me $18 for a 4-pack of the 1lb cylinders, and I think the 20lb ones are about $50 range.
neo@feddit.de 11 months ago
So you’re BigDickEnergy in a granny cottage, heating the place with your wood to get off grid. Nice!
Carighan@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Is there a specific reason the price spiked that much? That’s a 950% price hike within four hours.
Critical_Insight@feddit.uk 11 months ago
We’ve had negative 20 temperatures for over a week which happens about once every 10 years so the demand is extremely high and on top of that few of our powerplants are out of service for maintenance so that electricity has to be bought from abroad too.
Few cold days in a row is not an issue as buildings still have heat stored up in the structures but when it lasts for a long time the demand for more heating goes up drastically.
Endorkend@kbin.social 11 months ago
Scheduling power plant maintenance during winter in a country where it gets that cold seems a tad, uhm, insane?
gigachad@feddit.de 11 months ago
I’m don’t know how energy contracts work in Finland, but in Germany you usually have a fixed price per kw/h. That price may change frequently, but it has to be announced and you have the right to cancel the contract each time.
The graph OP showed looks like the price development on the spot market, that’s where energy providers buy gas short-term, apart from their long-term contracts. Spot-market-gas is naturally more expensive than the long-term one. That price may also be very unstable, as for example an unexpectedly cood winter week among several regions/contries can let it hike up pretty drastically.
AFAIK, this short-term price is an option for the private consumer as well. It has the advantage of being much cheaper most of the time when demand is low/normal but the disavantage OP shows here.
Mr_Blott@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Have you tried burning reindeer?
MudSkipperKisser@lemmy.world 11 months ago
It’s a Christmas scented ash they leave behind, most unsettling
Linkerbaan@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Hang a few blankets or bubble foil against th windows for isolation.
meliaesc@lemmy.world 11 months ago
What about for insulation?
Lemminary@lemmy.world 11 months ago
No no, it’s for insolention. Fuck them HOAs.
Oha@lemmy.ohaa.xyz 11 months ago
what the fuck?
throws_lemy@lemmy.nz 11 months ago
bassomitron@lemmy.world 11 months ago
-49.9°F is insane. A couple of years ago in the upper US Midwest, we set our record for around -45°F (-42.7°C) but that was with wind chill, the base temp. was something like -30°F (-34.4°C). People who’ve never experienced those kinds of temperatures really cannot comprehend how miserably cold it is and just how extremely dangerous it can be. I know there’s probably arctic dwellers that are used to those kinds of temps regularly, but it blew my mind when I had to go out into it and still got cold under 3 layers of clothes.
FluffyPotato@lemm.ee 11 months ago
I remember walking to school at -29C when I was young thinking it’s really bloody cold only to find out school is closed and walking back. Checked the temperature only when I got home.
Oderus@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Miserable is a huge understatement. It’s fatal when not properly clothed. As a kid I recall going to check our mail at the communal mailbox and it was -66C (-86F) with the windchill and every TV channel had a banner saying you WILL get frostbite with 30 SECONDS if skin is exposed. I know people who have lots fingers/toes in warmer temperatures than that so it’s straight up fatally cold.
dan@upvote.au 11 months ago
in the upper US Midwest, we set our record for around -45°F (-42.7°C) but that was with wind chill, the base temp. was something like -30°F (-34.4°C).
I really can’t imagine how cold that is. I’m from Australia and currently live in California, so 10C (50F) is cold to me lol. I’ve been to New York City during winter and felt extremely cold but I think it was ‘only’ -5C (23F) at the time.
Transporter_Room_3@startrek.website 11 months ago
I got to -20f with very strong winds last year. Froze half the pipes under the house, even through insulating layers. We had to tape up plastic sheets in some parts of the house like one of those walk-in freezers to try and keep the important places warm…
This house is a cheap ass 70s prefab. It was not made for 0F, let alone -20 and blizzard conditions.
dubyakay@lemmy.ca 11 months ago
Finland has more than 330 hydro power plants, with total capacity of over 3,100 megawatts in 2022. Hydro accounted for 18% of Finland’s total installed power generation capacity and 22% of total power generation in 2021.
WTFINLAND
Hydro-Québec Production main power plants (2020) Total Others (49 hydro, 1 therma) - 13302 MW
viking@infosec.pub 11 months ago
Hydro =/= hydro. The plants in Finland are tiny in comparison.
Hotzilla@sopuli.xyz 11 months ago
Finland is flat, no possiblity in hydro if you don’t have the mountains with water in them. Norway gets all the hydro, and Finland buys it there.
ikidd@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Canada has 85% of the worlds freshwater. There are a crazy amount of big rivers. Its not really a fait comparison.
dubyakay@lemmy.ca 11 months ago
This is Québec only. Other provinces that have more water and hills still have less hydro.
I don’t think the fact that Finland is north and cold and icy is a factor either. A lot of Québec’s power generating stations are in the desolate north, with some of the biggest ones on rivers flowing into the Hudson’s Bay, and they were built in the 70s.
However looking at the relief and hydro and topo maps of Finland, while there’s plenty of lakes, there’s no strong rivers. Couple this with an apparent ban on new hydro, and we got the answer.
I wonder how they’d fare with geothermal.
craigevil@lemmy.world 11 months ago
wow that is crazy. my bill for December was $77 in the US.
Damage@feddit.it 11 months ago
That is an insane price, and it feels like it should be illegal.
Further integration at an EU level would allow energy supply to be less influenced by local issues.
CosmicGrizzly@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Spot rate pricing for electricity is uncommon among households for exactly this reason. The price is most likely the result of energy market conditions, rather than nefarious actors in the market intentionally manipulating market conditions.
Usually there’s a company that would be absorbing that risk of price fluctuations by charging slightly more than the baseline normal so that they can afford to charge households at a loss for the short periods where the price spikes as insanely as this.
banneryear1868@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Wouldn’t there be a price cap in events that the wholesale market has anomalies like this? That’s standard in most jurisdictions. The wholesale price is still “real” because there’s some system or market condition reflected in this spike, it’s just not normal for ratepayers at the distribution level to not have a price cap protection. It’s like the opposite scenario if the price isn’t high enough to cover the cost in actually delivering the energy and running the grid, so a Global Adjustment would come in to effect to cover the difference. There’s can even be surplus conditions with price is in the negative.
MaxVoltage@lemmy.world 11 months ago
what kind of regulatory distopia do these laws come from?
Redfox8@feddit.uk 11 months ago
We have price caps in the UK. They’re not perfect but they have stopped us from paying a lot more than we would have this past year. And the UK is definitely no (did you mean to say?) utopia. Or do you think a price cap to protect consumers is something from a distopia?
ArbitraryValue@sh.itjust.works 11 months ago
Is heating with electricity common in Finland? That seems like it would cost a fortune even in good times.
chitak166@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Get her a space heater, you won’t even notice the difference in your bill.
Blackmist@feddit.uk 11 months ago
How’s the heat pump gang doing in that kind of temperature?
qyron@sopuli.xyz 11 months ago
Ouch.
Meanwhile, in Portugal, my peak energy price will be around €.10, with the minimum at around €.06
To what degree is your house insulated already?
silencioso@lemmy.world 11 months ago
What was the price before the Ukrainian war?
reddig33@lemmy.world 11 months ago
What’s the renewable energy like in a Finland during the winter? Solar, wind, or geothermal common and working?
Ackerthegod@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Honestly doesn’t seem that bad if it’s just for one day. Maybe invest in something more sustainable in the future?
possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip 11 months ago
You need to seriously need to rethink your home. First off, consider getting a radiator heater. These heaters have no fan and are filled with oil to passively heat the air. They are pretty efficient and can heat a small space.
Next make sure you have blinds covering all windows. Windows loss a lot of heat even if they are double paned.
In the spring time it may be worth getting some insulation blown in.
Allero@lemmy.today 11 months ago
Crazy how it is with dynamic electricity price. Must be extremely inconvenient to monitor and react!
Here a border away in Saint Petersburg, Russia, we have electricity at a fixed rate of 4,5c/kWh in daytime and 3c/kWh in the night. There aren’t any variable price tariffs in here.
TardisBeaker@lemmy.world 11 months ago
I’m sorry. At least when it gets to negative 40 you won’t have to translate it from C to F.
vinagrwl@lemmy.world 11 months ago
doctorcrimson@lemmy.today 11 months ago
Calls on Foam and Mineral Wool?
ByteWizard@lemm.ee 11 months ago
If you voted Liberal, you voted for this. #Leopardsatemyface
MaxPower@feddit.de 11 months ago
I honestly don’t understand. Isn’t Finland one of the countries who should have figured out how to heat a home efficiently a long time ago?
exocortex@discuss.tchncs.de 11 months ago
It peaked there right? So the rest of the day it was lower wasn’t it? Still very expensive!
alphacyberranger@lemmy.world 11 months ago
RIP to those running a 4090 on their rig.
waigl@lemmy.world 11 months ago
I get the joke, but in contrast to heating, you can easily just… not run demanding games while the electricity is insanely expensive for a day.
ezchili@iusearchlinux.fyi 11 months ago
It would literally not matter since it all ends up as heat in the end which is what you’re looking for
Minus 5 watts on the three fans or something
ColeSloth@discuss.tchncs.de 11 months ago
But running the 4090 would keep your cottage warm.
thorbot@lemmy.world 11 months ago
What do you mean? I can run my 4090 to hear the house instead of my furnace
Thassodar@lemm.ee 11 months ago
I got an RX 6800 yesterday, can’t wait to test out its heating capabilities lol
OutlierBlue@lemmy.ca 11 months ago
Nah, it’ll keep the house warm!
Kecessa@sh.itjust.works 11 months ago
I kept the main room of my condo warm for a winter by having two rigs running 24/7 while I didn’t have a baseboard because I was doing renovations!
sverit@feddit.de 11 months ago
Imagine the OC potential at those low room temps!