The radical part of the dems are the centrist
Centrists have such a Hard Choice.
Submitted 1 day ago by sanitation@lemmy.today to workreform@lemmy.world
https://lemmy.today/pictrs/image/0f5d9157-44ac-4132-889c-6a58416982ae.jpeg
Comments
mrdown@lemmy.world 8 hours ago
RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world 1 day ago
Centrist: a right winger that doesn’t want to face the realities of either situation.
TankovayaDiviziya@lemmy.world 21 hours ago
A lot of centrists, are frankly, kind of weak minded. A lot are not necessarily more right leaning but they don’t exactly have strong conviction. A friend of mine is right leaning on immigration and economics but at the same time he voted for the social democrats in his country because of over a decade of right wing government and supports Palestine. Some are centrists for the sake of being centrist it seems.
The problem as to why many centrists sound right leaning is because the right captured prominent media platforms, and a huge part of its audience are lonely folks who are susceptible to misinformation, which my friend falls into. Many don’t become firmly on right but that doesn’t matter for the right wing billionaires funding the media platforms. It’s about sowing enough doubt to prevent forming a united front against the billionaire-Epstein class.
uriel238@lemmy.blahaj.zone 10 hours ago
Encouraging people to find and listen to independent news media is one of the more effective things you can do for the resistance.
By the way, you should add more independent news media to your news diet.
Also, generally, if something makes you scared or mad, go online and look for other sources discussing the same story. It’ll not only provide nuance, but it’ll reveal what’s fact, and what is opinion or assertion.
IronBird@lemmy.world 10 hours ago
your a centrest because your scared of taking a stance on most important questions of the current moment
I’m a centrist because I don’t know anything about the most important questions of the current moment
We are sort of the same
affenlehrer@feddit.org 1 day ago
I don’t think you have a left in the US. You have far right and center right. In Germany it’s like you had only AfD and CDU and that’s it.
I mean it’s still obvious which choice is better but none of them is left.
uriel238@lemmy.blahaj.zone 10 hours ago
From the 20th century, we have the ideological war against USSR to thank for that. It started all the way back with Wilson. After WWII, the threat of nuclear annihilation was a powerful tool for nationalism. (I’d learn only recently that a first strike was far more likely to come from US than USSR, and we had some dangerous war hawks in power.)
Before that, after reconstruction came redemption and corporate interests took over both parties.
Before that, roads, schools, bridges, libraries and such were socialism giving the working man benefits to which they didn’t contribute (we just contributed all the labor). Yes, they called it socialism even back in the 19th century.
Do observe that adherence to neoliberalism in the EU (which is essentially corporatism with extra steps) is driving the rise of far right movements even over there. And when the tech-bros and white Christian nationalists over here are done bleeding the US dry like its private equity, they’ll be headed over there with their vast wealth to do the same thing.
wewbull@feddit.uk 24 minutes ago
You can go back further than that.
The 1917 russian revolution kicked it off. The fear of a workers revolution happening in the US started a campaign of labelling everything socialist and communist as anti-american.
BeardededSquidward@lemmy.blahaj.zone 10 hours ago
We don’t have a large, cohesive, left party. There are people who are certainly left in the USA, but we have no real representation out of a handful of congress people.
Wizard_Pope@lemmy.world 23 hours ago
American 2 party system is so fucked that anything left of rabid, far right fascism is considered far left
TankovayaDiviziya@lemmy.world 21 hours ago
Isn’t Die Linke gaining ground on the polls though?
Telemachus93@slrpnk.net 1 minute ago
Somewhat, yes. Whatever votes they get, they mostly take over from SPD and Greens, though. All three of those parties moved to the right significantly, so even if there is a majority for the three of them together some day and if (the bigger one) SPD and Greens enter into a coalition with Die Linke, my impression is that it won’t be that different from the SPD/Greens coalition at the turn of the century or the SPD/Greens/Liberals coalition in the past election cycle: center-left at best, but far from substantial improvements to our economy, social security system or imperialist foreign policy. :(
uriel238@lemmy.blahaj.zone 10 hours ago
Radical Right: Dismantle democratic elections (to stay in power)
Radical Left: Make elections freer and fairer (to have a say in governance)
Jankatarch@lemmy.world 10 hours ago
Centrists: Let’s meet in the middle and dismantle half of elections, eh?
SkunkWorkz@lemmy.world 8 hours ago
Yeah where is the Tubular Left and the Gnarly Right.
SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca 10 hours ago
The policies you’re calling “radical left” is actually center-left. Every policy listed above are things the center-left wants, but they lack the votes to do it because the “radical left” is “uncommitted” to these issues.
Actual radical left is devoted to hating Jews in general Israel specifically. To the “radical left” most sacrilegious thing anyone can ever do is question whether Israel committed genocide. Or saying that harassing Jews in your own community is antisemitism. What does any of this have to do with the working class? Nothing. But it’s really the only issue the “radical left” actually cares about because they’re mostly university students fantasizing that they’re the working class.
Because of it’s not allowed to have sane conversations about Israel or call out antisemitism within the ranks, most people don’t want to associate with you. The DSA does have some people that care about issues around healthcare, but within the same group there’s people that want to kill all Jews, and no one in the DSA says peep about it. Instead the goal is to silence all discussion on the problem of antisemitism in the group.
You pretend that there’s some conspiracy to against the radical left (by you know who) but really there’s too many people in the ranks that are deplorable and the rest just look the other way about it.
Both the radical right and radical left are hate groups. They only slightly differ on the targets of their hate and the terminology they use.
TargaryenTKE@lemmy.world 6 hours ago
gallopingsnail@lemmy.sdf.org 9 hours ago
misrepresent what my opponent believes
categorize them all as bigots
call them all antiseptic for criticizing a government and it’s political ideology
Better luck next time, you Zionist fuckin’ clown.
SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca 8 hours ago
You can’t discuss what I say so you resort to throwing childish insults.
It’s all you can do because you know what I’m saying is true.
kat_angstrom@lemmy.world 8 hours ago
As an FYI, this comment has been reported. As Mod, I’m going to let it stay up with this comment as the downvotes speak louder to me than your rhetoric, but I feel like your approach to debate is troublesome.
Personally I’d note,
Actual radical left is devoted to hating Jews in general Israel specifically.
Please try to avoid such sweeping generalizations when debating with people online. “Devoted to hating Jews” is such a wild comment to me. If you actually believe that, I think that you need to talk with more people on the “radical left”, or, you need to understand that the radical left is much bigger than those who inspired that comment.
mrdown@lemmy.world 4 hours ago
Please remove. Those zionists will never learn
SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca 5 hours ago
Of course you did. Leftism is currently very devoted to looking the other way about issues of antisemitism within your movement. You don’t want to consider that there is a very valid reason for leftism to be rejected.
It would be very easy to denounce Hamas, and denounce attacking synagogues. Make it very clear that leftism isn’t about these things. But leftists won’t do that, why?
Rule on the sidebar says:
We must not be divided and conquered. Workers gain the most when they focus on unifying issues.
You’re in the paradox of tolerance. If you tolerate antisemitism, then you’re in an intolerant group. The goal of anti-zionist rhetoric has nothing to do with unionizing or labour rights. It’s entirely about creating division and turning people against one another.
How much discussion on here is actually about unionizing and improving working conditions? I would love for there to be a community about that, since I support forming unions. But your community is mostly about bashing Jews and bashing Democrats. It’s not about building coalitions with those sympathetic towards the rights of workers, it’s about attacking anyone that’s not onboard with one side in the propaganda surrounding a conflict on the other side of the world.
You shouldn’t expect there will be broad support for a group that tolerates antisemitism. Trying to sweep the problem under the rug and pretend the problem doesn’t exist isn’t making it better. Attacks on synagogues continue to increase. People outside of leftist circles see the antisemitic comments by people in your group. It’s also noted that there is no one in the leftist sphere that ever speaks out against it.
It’s your choice whether to ban comments that bring up the issue, but that is you choosing ban discussion on a very real problem in your movement. There’s a long history of people looking the other way on antisemitism that you’d be joining.
mrdown@lemmy.world 8 hours ago
You hate jews so much that you associate them to a colonial and genocidal state
SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca 5 hours ago
No, I recognize the distinction between Jews in Israel and the Jews that live in my community. “Leftists” threaten the Jews that live in my community and I’m not a big fan of that. Leftism in general is incapable of denouncing this kind of behavior. Which makes you deplorable to anyone that cares about their community.
This is why your movement is a failure. Y’all dabbled in hate politics and now it’s taken over your movement.
yenahmik@lemmy.world 1 day ago
I always considered myself a centrist. Of course, over the last 15 years the one side has become so damn batshit crazy it looks like I’m a party line voter simply based on my voting record.
Abyssian@lemmy.world 21 hours ago
Why do I have to choose between the radical left and the radical right?
What if I’m a male xenophobic racist who wants women to exist as sex toys to men and have no rights of their own and supports killing random civilians and children in other countries, especially when it grows in to genocide, but also wants a good life for the common male workers of the country, universal healthcare, and a sustainable climate?
I want that universal health care and education, I want more affordable homes and such, but I also want to see goon squads in the street beating brown people with batons as often as possible because it makes me laugh. Why can’t I have both?
vlad76@lemmy.sdf.org 1 day ago
We need some police. Just some.
Nemo@slrpnk.net 1 day ago
But not these ones, better ones.
ChicoSuave@lemmy.world 1 day ago
Social workers? Yes. Police as we know them? Nope. Proper education and mental health services will solve 99% of the problems. Most crime is unresolved personal issues and taking care of people will take care of the problems.
jumping_redditor@sh.itjust.works 1 day ago
people that steal cars are one of the best uses for the current police, and if the police actually faced proper punishment for not kamikazing into mass shooters that would be another great use
PRIMEcavitationfetishist@quokk.au 1 day ago
Just enough to kill the untermenchen and keep people from objecting to my atrocities where I can hear. That’s such a reasonable thing I don’t know why they’re complaining there are too many.
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 1 day ago
STOP MAKING ME CHOOSE
says Threads account run by a DC think tank.
nil@piefed.ca 1 day ago
center is bullshit. You’re the center for your view
Demdaru@lemmy.world 20 hours ago
If you stop thinking about sides as whole and start thinking about singular choices, it becomes easy to understand where do centrists come from.
I like tradition. I don’t think it should be untouchable, but I think it should be preserved and continued overall. I dislike globalism, valuing feeling of community with people from my country. I hate the idea of bending backwards just to fully accomodate whims of other people, even if these pertain to their feeling of self.
On the other hand, I hate the idea of functionally sorting people based on their skin, using traditions to shame and attack others, or deeming others as worse just because what they feel themselves be is different than what we perceive.
I hate censorship from both sides, portrayal of the other side as dumb and themselves as better and tendency for “group-thing” for humanity as a whole.
So yeah, i deem myself centrist. But if you ask me to join the side fighting fascists, nazis or communists (in the USSR sense of the word), I’m with ya.
MrFinnbean@lemmy.world 17 hours ago
I hate the idea of bending backwards just to fully accomodate whims of other people
Care to give an example when you have ever really needed to bend over backwards?
katkit@lemmy.world 14 hours ago
I’m firmly left and have started to see your perspective a bit more recently. I think we tend to generalize groups of people by their bad examples, which is also done to and by centrists.
I’m thankful for the perspective of reasonable centrists, who are able to look at the reality of a situation and judge fairly, to add nuance and build bridges. What affirmed me in my group think for a long time was radicalized centrists, who are more interested in equating left and right regardless of circumstance, than in grasping problems with an open mind.
But I think I understand how that happens. It’s frustrating for many leftists to have to choose between two options they don’t agree with, center and right, so some become blind to their differences and fall into group-think. Maybe it is the same for centrists, some of which also start to portray all left and right as dumb ideologues and themselves as above criticism from other worldviews.
So I agree with you. We should think about singular choices more than about sides. And frankly, I really enjoy finding common ground with people from different walks of life recently.
Snapz@lemmy.world 23 hours ago
Is that really Alison rosen now? Or was she joking herself? Stupid screenshot culture and no link…
Axolotl_cpp@feddit.it 21 hours ago
That’s the post link: threads.com/…/stop-making-me-choose-between-the-r…
jumping_redditor@sh.itjust.works 23 hours ago
the us democrats are not the radical left, but the radical left had policies that enough people would disagree on that they would lose if they tried to run (wealth tax)
uriel238@lemmy.blahaj.zone 10 hours ago
I don’t think wealth taxes are too far left for Americans. I think the ownership class is just willing to flood social media and television with propaganda against wealth tax, which influences elections.
That’s what they’re doing already in California, and we’d really, really, like to keep Medi-cal when the OBBBA gutted Medicaid nationwide.
Paulemeister@feddit.org 23 hours ago
Why do you think the majority of people would be against a wealth tax? Are the people really buying into the idea that with enough hard work one might one day be a multi millionaire? Feels like Stockholm syndrome driven by propaganda by the rich
jumping_redditor@sh.itjust.works 21 hours ago
you don’t need majority disapproval to lose because voter turnout is far from 100%, and it is possible to become a millionaire with “hard work” (and student loans) just look at lawyers and doctors.
Axolotl_cpp@feddit.it 21 hours ago
Post link: threads.com/…/stop-making-me-choose-between-the-r…
btw, does anyone have something to see threads posts without gettin on threads website?
Apocalypteroid@lemmy.world 10 hours ago
Those thing aren’t even radical left