The game has just been nominated for two Gayming Magazine Awards due to its (optional) gay romance.
“TRIGGER WARNING,” the post begins. “Among all the various awards and nominations we’ve received, we’ve also just been nominated for the @gaymingmag GAYMING AWARDS! I’m really proud of that, because I absolutely stand by the fact that the way we did it is exactly how something like this should be done. Non-coercively, naturally, and educationally (because we show how things really were in the Middle Ages without idealizing them)–and without shoving it down anyone’s throat or trying to re-educate them like so many titles that are rightfully called ‘woke’ these days. We made the gay community happy and gave them the CHOICE to be themselves, just like we did for others in other choices and quests, and anyone who isn’t interested probably didn’t even notice. Except, of course, for [a] very small and very loud minority.”
Kingdom Come Deliverance 2 Director Says It Did Gay Romance "Right" By Not Going "Woke"
Submitted 11 hours ago by FTonsilStones@lemmy.ca to games@lemmy.world
Comments
absquatulate@lemmy.world 1 hour ago
g0nz0li0@piefed.social 2 hours ago
This is total bullshit.
“We did it right by not forcing it on players” just plays to a bullshit fallacy that acknowledging same-sex relationships == forcing people into same-sex relationships. This narrative is right wing outrage bullshit. It exists to allow the people who absolutely do not want same-sex marriage to exist in any form insist they are actually just very worried that heterosexual people are being forced into homo- bi- trans- sexually etc (which is actually not a thing).
This dickwad is trying to pat himself on the back for successfully navigating a moral outrage that he and his right wing pals invented. This is part of the ongoing narrative to normalise intolerance and to insist that being intolerant is actually the right moral choice.
Fuck him, fuck his game, fuck them all.
graynk@discuss.tchncs.de 1 hour ago
The games are great, if only he could, like, not open his mouth…
ChristerMLB@piefed.social 6 hours ago
In a lot of places, not just far-right assholes, the word “woke” has taken on the role of terms like “social justice warrior” and “political correctness” - i.e. in describing a self-righteous, superficial, performative and preachy kind of style.
Yes, that is not what the word “originally” meant, yes it is partially the result of right wing propaganda, yes “political correctness” and “sjw” have similar issues, but it is still a real thing.
What the man seems to me to be trying to say is that their goal was to do a medieval gay romance in a way that was not preachy or superficial – is that not good?
mellowistheyellow@lemmy.zip 2 hours ago
Its not good, because you are now playing into the toxic norms that already exist. So its ok if straight stuff is upfront, but gay stuff has to be optional? This is completely pathetic and I will never support this, this team or game.
Passerby6497@lemmy.world 1 hour ago
In a lot of places, not just far-right assholes, the word “woke” has taken on the role of terms like “social justice warrior” and “political correctness” - i.e. in describing a self-righteous, superficial, performative and preachy kind of style.
LOL no, “woke” is anything that acknowledges LGBT+ individuals exist and have a right to live their lives as they want is woke. These fucking snowflakes cry about being asked to pick fucking pronouns, even when there is 0 impact on the game.
Crying ‘woke’ instantly tells me all I need to know about someone. The same goes for people who try to pretend it’s about preaching a message instead of acknowledging these people can and do exist.
What the man seems to me to be trying to say is that their goal was to do a medieval gay romance in a way that was not preachy or superficial – is that not good? Isn’t there a bit too much token representation and pinkwashing going on?
And you’re parroting the message loud and clear. Acknowledging their existence is always tOkEn RePrEsEnTaTiOn
ChristerMLB@piefed.social 14 minutes ago
Crying ‘woke’ instantly tells me all I need to know about someone
Sentences like that instantly tells me that I am talking to someone who is prejudiced and proud of it
Katana314@lemmy.world 2 hours ago
So what should be the word we use for “media that depicts positive social ideologies?” Apparently “woke” includes the definition “while being super preachy about it.”
Of course, in that split, it’s also common people will call something “preachy” when a gay guy is there, and doesn’t even waste the viewer’s time. It happened to that horrible conservative animated show, as well.
MagnificentSteiner@lemmy.zip 5 hours ago
Now now, don’t be getting all reasonable. This is the internet after all!
ChristerMLB@piefed.social 2 hours ago
sry
musket528@sopuli.xyz 1 hour ago
i’ve re-read this several times. still unsure what this mf meant💀
Aielman15@lemmy.world 5 hours ago
I can confirm. I played the gay romance in KCD2 and the penises never touched for the entirety of the playthrough. Thanks to this, I was finally able to play a gay character that felt authentic to real life and, more importantly, I didn’t turn gay myself.
To make sure of that, I replayed the game three more times, always choosing the gay option. Lo and behold, I’m still very, very straight. In fact, it worked like a vaccine: now I can watch gay porn without it having an effect on my sexuality (I’m super duper straight! I only watched gay porn to MAKE SURE that I was still straight).
Bravo Daniel.
Tikiporch@lemmy.world 10 hours ago
Using the word “woke” disqualified him of any notion this was a rational thought. He wanted to accept the award to promote his game and make money, but slyly wink at those who are a part of his in-group.
TommySoda@lemmy.world 10 hours ago
Bro… You literally had to say nothing and you failed at that. And to use the word “woke” is stupid. The amount of flak they are gonna get for this just for saying that word will be immense. This would blow over by Tuesday if you said that entire thing bit left out the work “woke”
Jrockwar@feddit.uk 6 hours ago
How can you ever depict a gay relationship in a game without “being woke”? By having the characters say “no homo” loudly and high five while they fuck? I swear right-wing asswipes find new mental gymnastics routines every day to redefine what they mean with this word.
pulsewidth@lemmy.world 10 hours ago
Well, that sours me enough to the game that its no longer on the wishlist.
EvilBit@lemmy.world 10 hours ago
The guy has always been a piece of shit so I’m glad more people are learning this.
orochi02@feddit.org 6 hours ago
Idk, I Kind of get him (prolly gonna get downvoted for this).
For me personally I Must say when I learned more about homosexuality, I learned that it is Not This cliche Image that Most guys have in mind with some gay twink trying to Hit on any guys they can. Most gay people are just normal regular everyday people with just a different preference in people that Theyd Date but Most cis people totally envision either some annoying gay twink or a drag queen. I have a feeling though that nowadays people that are pro gay & lgbtq do not really help at educating unaware cis people with their representation that gay people are just that. Normal people with a different preference just like anyone who can like different things from others.
Trainguyrom@reddthat.com 13 minutes ago
I’ll respond because it seems like you’re trying
Most guys have in mind with some gay twink trying to Hit on any guys they can.
I’m not sure how common this mental image is, but try to get it out of your head. The fact is there are some people who just want to have lots of sex with lots of people, some of these people happen to be straight, some happen to be gay, some happen to be guys, and some happen to be gals and some happen to be anywhere in-between any of the above. And that’s okay, because different people are different and who cares what happens between consenting adults? And you know what else is okay? Some people don’t want to have sex with anyone, some people only want to have sex with certain people, and some people are anywhere in between.
Most gay people are just normal regular everyday people with just a different preference in people that Theyd Date
All. All gay people are just people. Sexual interest is a spectrum, some people are only interested in other people of the same gender, some people are only interested in people of the opposite gender, and some people are somewhere in between, maybe mostly-straight or mostly-gay. And that’s okay no matter where on that spectrum you fall.
On top of that both romantic interest and ones own gender are spectrums as well. These spectrums can have very different settings from each other and that’s okay too. On the subject of gender, people have a physical and a mental gender, and sometimes those don’t match. That’s okay too (y’know as in it’s okay to have that problem and be working to align the two in whatever way that makes them happy)
Most cis people totally envision either some annoying gay twink or a drag queen
First of all, don’t use that slur. Full stop.
Secondly, drag is not a gender nor a sexuality nor a sexual or romantic interest. People who do drag are just people who do drag. They can be anywhere on the various spectrums I already outlined.
I have a feeling though that nowadays regarding representation, people that are pro gay & lgbtq do not really help at educating unaware cis people
They are trying to educate unaware cis/straight people, its just between algorithms, echo chambers and those who wish to eliminate everyone who isn’t white straight cis, there’s plenty of corners its not reaching.
This is not a failure of gay people, and this isn’t any one gay person’s job to educate the world. This is the world trying to pretend that gay people don’t exist, when in fact they do exist and have existed for as long as gender and sexuality have existed
The reason we have pride is because we are in the first time in human history when anyone who isn’t cis, straight, etc. isn’t forced to ignore or suppress those feelings but can actually go be exactly who they want to be and be with whoever they want to be. Even now, as kids start to realize there’s something different about them, they’re first led to believe it’s because there’s something wrong with them. This might last a short time, this might last a lifetime, but pride is about squashing those self-doubt demons and shouting out to the world “I AM WHO I AM AND YOU WILL DEAL WITH IT!”
The importance of representation is in helping put the image in people’s heads that it’s okay to be different and that you don’t have to be a white cis straight male to do certain things. Whether it’s Mr Rogers sharing a pool with a black actor on a hot day, or Lt Uhura being played by a black woman in Star Trek, or Kora kissing Asami in Legend of Kora, or anything else, it’s about showing and helping people know that they can be who they want to be and they can be happy about it. Media drives a sense of normalcy, so what’s normal in media becomes normal in society. If it’s normal for gay people to exist in media, people will see it as normal for gay people to exist in society.
Now, more on topic, Kingdom Come Deliverence is in a weird spot because it sets out to be the most realistic representation of a specific period and place in medieval history as possible. In the medieval period (and for most of history for that matter) people didn’t really have an individual identity, so the idea of gay or straight people didn’t really exist. They were however extremely sexist and mostly considered whoever did the penetrating to be powerful and whoever is being penetrated to be weak (and there’s some hilarious historical texts where people are just generally confused about what to think of lesbians because there’s no penetrating going on so did anything actually happen?) so CK:D in being an accurate period piece happens to place itself right in the crossroads of this culture war, as it presumably depicts gayness as many conservatives would prefer, something to be hidden away and ignored and maybe prosecuted if it gets too inconvenient for them, but CK:D depicts it this way not as a handout to conservatives but as an accurate depiction of history without commentary.
So TL;DR: gay people are people and different people are different and that’s okay
CoyoteFacts@piefed.ca 3 hours ago
It’s worth mentioning that this sort of thinking gets really close to “there are good ones and bad ones” in some people’s minds. IMO there’s a lot of representation for the “non-normal” queers because they are the most vulnerable and because it needs to be clear that it’s a package deal. People don’t get to draw the line in places like “gays are okay but trans people are icky”, and unofficially supporting mindsets like that would legitimize disgust-based morality.
People need to learn the lesson that others inherently deserve rights and respect regardless of their own personal feelings, otherwise we’re just going to be fighting this battle over and over again for each minority group.
Voroxpete@sh.itjust.works 2 hours ago
Yeah, the moment you start thinking that it’s only acceptable for people to be gay as long as they express themselves in ways you approve of is the moment you start thinking like a fascist.
At that point you’re no different than the racist with the black friend who is “one of the good ones.”
The solution to the problem the previous owner is describing is that we need simply need more representation. There need to be enough queer people in media that no one character or couple has to serve the role of being a proxy for all queer people and relationships. Give me fruity gays and bitchy queens, and give me boring normal gay people who live in their white picket fence houses and drive trucks. Give me Loid from Warframe and give me Bill from The Last of Us. Celebrate the wonderful spectrum of humanity. Let it all exist instead of fighting over which parts are worthy.
BlameTheAntifa@lemmy.world 6 hours ago
Anyone that uses woke as a pejorative is a fucking fascist bigot. I will never support anything by this company or Vavra ever again.
the_riviera_kid@lemmy.world 7 hours ago
Well, all interest I had in this game is suddenly gone after the stupid “woke” comment. I was waiting for a sale but now I’ll just remove it from the list.
CosmoNova@lemmy.world 7 hours ago
Not very surprising. I remember one of the Warhorse head devs wearing a band shirt of a far right band while representing the studio and giving interviews. That caused quite a scandal in Germany‘s gaming community.
NoForwadSlashS@piefed.social 4 hours ago
without shoving it down anyone’s throat or trying to re-educate them like so many titles that are rightfully called ‘woke’ these days. We made the gay community happy
Not anymore you didn’t.
ech@lemmy.ca 9 hours ago
I’d love for this asswipe to just shut up forever, but maybe if he keeps piping up more people will understand how terrible he is.
BroBot9000@lemmy.world 10 hours ago
Fucking shithead
luthis@lemmy.nz 10 hours ago
Can anyone who has actually played the game elaborate and give their thoughts?
scholar@lemmy.world 6 hours ago
The game has a gay romance option, which is something that you can unlock over the course of the game with the right dialogue options and is fairly tastefully done. The game is very intent on being a 1403 simulator and the characters are all written with that in mind, but it’s nice that the game recognises that gay people would have existed regardless of the cultural attitudes at the time.
I think his comments refer to the implementation of the romance in the way that it doesn’t feel like it was put there so the studio could boast about how progressive they are.
Passerby6497@lemmy.world 1 hour ago
I think his comments refer to the implementation of the romance in the way that it doesn’t feel like it was put there so the studio could boast about how progressive they are.
Big “I’m doing the thing I complain about, but it’s different when I do it” energy from this statement.
tabris@lemmy.world 5 hours ago
but it’s nice that the game recognises that gay people would have existed regardless of the cultural attitudes at the time.
The late mediaeval period was actually fairly accepting of gay relationships, with a legal doctrine of Brotherment being practiced in several countries, where two men would legally join their lives and assets, and which often included declarations of affection.
smoothoperator@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 hours ago
In the first game everyone is assumed to be straight, and your character receives a stat boost from sleeping with women, which sometimes happens in the story, but mostly will happen at “bathhouses”.
This is more or less the same in the second game, except that there is an option relatively early in the game for your (male) character to start a gay romance with an important, recurring character.
I didn’t follow through with that, but I was very pleasantly surprised to see it - both characters are sort of supposed to be womanizers, but it makes sense in the context of the story that they could discover feelings for eachother. It’s up to you whether your character has a childhood sweetheart feminine love interest at home or not (from the previous game), but other than this relatively unimportant detail (beyond the roleplaying of it), the gay romance appears to be arguably the most significant romance in the game.
All that said, the game director who speaks is an asshole. Given that, I was pleasantly surprised at how “woke” KCD2 actually is. Guess he might has a different idea of “woke” than the rest of us, e.g. more “female ghost busters movie”, less “gay representation”.
wcSyndrome@lemmy.zip 6 hours ago
I agree with your comment except to say that Henry (the playable character) is a pretty blank slate. It’s been a little while since I’ve played it but I wouldn’t call him a womanizer though Hans definitely is
tidderuuf@lemmy.world 8 hours ago
Based upon the comments here it looks like no one here has played it.
november@piefed.blahaj.zone 9 hours ago
He even needed ChatGPT to write his own shitty opinion for him, what a loser.
Passerby6497@lemmy.world 1 hour ago
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Seriously tho, what in the actual fuck is this guy trying to say, other than trying to appeal to rightoids while doing the same thing the games he is bitching about do. They constantly cry about ThE wOkE aGeNdA when you can select pronouns that LITERALLY have 0 impact on gaming, but apparently including WoKe content is ok if you’re on their side.