Let’s say there’s someone I want to call Mr/Ms/Mrs [Name], but I don’t know their gender, is there a title I can use that doesn’t assume their gender?
M'theydy
Is there a title (Mr/Ms/Mrs) that is gender neutral?
Submitted 8 months ago by BackOnMyBS@lemmy.world to [deleted]
Comments
meadsteve@reddthat.com 8 months ago
Slightly off topic but I really like the approach where the honorific is just dropped entirely. So just [Name]. No Mr/Ms/Mrs. It mostly doesn’t serve any purpose anyway.
mundane@feddit.nu 8 months ago
That’s what we did in Sweden in the 60s. It feels so archaic whenever I have to enter an honorific on documents (i.e when booking hotels and flights) from other countries.
RaivoKulli@sopuli.xyz 8 months ago
Sometimes they allow for you to write in other stuff. I put in “His majesty” once, it printed out as “His Firstname Lastname” in my hotel reservation paper. Disappointed.
I also put in “Emperor” for some mailing list stuff. I get a chuckle when I get mails from them. “Emperor RaivoKulli, sign up now for the conference”
cobysev@lemmy.world 8 months ago
I spent the last 20 years in the US military, most of it being referred to as “Sergeant [cobysev].” The past year since I’ve been retired, I’ve been trying to get used to being called “Mr. [cobysev].” It’s really weird, especially since I joined the military at 18, so no one called me Mr. previously.
skulblaka@kbin.social 8 months ago
Honestly you could probably get away with just "Sarge" as a nickname. Won't help much on official documents but it might make conversation a little more comfortable.
AA5B@lemmy.world 8 months ago
I almost never see it used anymore here in the US, either. Let’s just cancel that useless title.
On the one hand it feels really weird when someone (not a child) calls me with that phrasing - that’s my Dad plus no one does that anymore
But on the other hand it seems disrespectful for a child to call an adult by first name, and I don’t know a better alternative
HardlightCereal@lemmy.world 8 months ago
Why don’t we just replace honorifics with pronouns?
She/Her Smith, please find enclosed your Kmart rewards card
Rouxibeau@lemmy.world 8 months ago
Try the South
Zoomboingding@lemmy.world 8 months ago
This is honestly the right answer. You can be formal without the honorific. Include any titles they may have (PHD, PE).
itinerantme@lemmy.wtf 8 months ago
I have started just using M. Like, “Dear M. Lastname”. I saw it being done in French and just adopted it for English too. No one’s complained yet. (Have also seen Mx. but figure that could be confusing.)
charles@lemmy.ca 8 months ago
Just fyi, M. in French is only equivalent to Mr, it’s short for Monsieur. Mme (short for Madame) is equivalent to Mrs, and Mlle (short for Mademoiselle) is equivalent to Miss/Ms.
So using M. for everyone is equivalent to saying Mr. for everyone.
itinerantme@lemmy.wtf 8 months ago
Yeah, I know! That’s why I was surprised when someone addressed me as “M.” in French. So, I thought “that’s neat!” and picked it up.
abbotsbury@lemmy.world 8 months ago
Ehh, it can be adapted to mean Mister/Misses if that’s how people interpret it.
LordOfTheChia@lemmy.world 8 months ago
“Dear M. M. Night Shamalyan”
tarjeezy@lemmy.ca 8 months ago
Dear M. Eminem
bitcrafter@lemmy.sdf.org 8 months ago
In the sci-fi book Hyperion (which takes place hundreds of years in the future) they use this convention throughout and it works really well, so I’ve also wished that it were widely adopted in our society. (Except for androids, where the title is A. rather than M.)
HardlightCereal@lemmy.world 8 months ago
I’ve been playing though Prey and seeing people refer to Morgan Yu as “M. Yu” always throws me for a loop because I think they’re using an honorific. Doesn’t help that Morgan is already designed to be a gender-ambivalent character so the player can choose their gender and the story will still be the same
Wahots@pawb.social 8 months ago
A sci-fi book from 1991 used that, and I thought it was just futurespeak. TIL!
Ghost33313@kbin.social 8 months ago
TIL M. Bison was nonbinary.
Adulated_Aspersion@lemmy.world 8 months ago
I vote that we change it to Mmm.
That will make all honorific communications sultry and interesting.
Mmm Adulated, We appreciate your interest in our organization, but we regret to inform you that we will not be able to hire you for the role. Please continue to…
BackOnMyBS@lemmy.world 8 months ago
Mmm Adulated 🤤
Remmock@kbin.social 8 months ago
Would you not be Mmm Aspersion?
grysbok@lemmy.sdf.org 8 months ago
Seconding the honorific “Mx”. From what I’ve seen, it’s decently well-adopted in the non-binary community. I’ve not seen it much used outside of that community–it seems to be used mostly when someone ‘needs’ and honorific but doesn’t fit into the 1950s list.
IRL, I’ve used “Hey, you” and “Yo!” when hollering at folks I don’t know (example, “Yo! You dropped something!”)
Sidenote: As a nonbinary person, I prefer not being given an honorific over being given the wrong one.
Minirant not directed at OP: And omg, if you need to go with a feminine honorific and you don’t know whether the person is married, go with Ms, not Mrs. or Miss. The connotations of the wrong one are just creepy. Not married and called Mrs=“Hey, you’re too old to be unmarried. Please feel judged about your relationship status” Married and called Miss=“Hey, you’re too young to be married. Please feel like I don’t respect you as an adult.” In all cases Ms=“I don’t know and/or care about your marital status and I’m trying to be polite”
DharmaCurious@startrek.website 8 months ago
Do you have any suggestions on sir/ma’am? I’m from the south, and genuinely don’t know how to stop saying sir/ma’am. I always try to go with whatever the person is presenting, and I have tried not to say it at all. But that southernism is deeply ingrained. Like at a drive through or something, where you only have a voice to go off of it’s especially bad. I do try to avoid it, but I wish there were a gender neutral version, because language just feels rude without it to someone who grew up with that instilled in them. All adult people must be addressed as ma’am or sir, regardless of age in any kind of setting that isn’t close friends. If I forego it, I feel rude as fuck, and most of the time whoever you’re talking to also acts offended. But the last thing I want to do is misgender someone, especially with words like sir/ma’am, that are such… Strict terms. Halp?
grysbok@lemmy.sdf.org 8 months ago
I’m wicked sorry, I don’t have a good answer. You could try Mx and see how it feels. I’ve dropped sir/ma’am for folks that I know, or that appear my age or younger. I still use it for older folks I don’t know out in the wild.
I, personally, never take offense at being misgendered in a Southern accent if I’m called “ma’am”. I grew up in the South and to me it just feels like someone’s trying their best to be polite and I take it as intended. Sometimes I also just misparse it as “man”, which feels a bit informal, but whatevs. Miss still feels creepy, but I get that less now that I’ve hit 30.
If you’re working at a drive through where there’s a customer/service worker dynamic, I’d 1. go with ma’am or sir 2. accept it if someone corrects you, and 3. recognize you’re more likely to be yelled at by someone for using a ‘new-fangled honorific’ than for misgendering someone.
nateno12@kbin.social 8 months ago
In the Philippines, we use mamsir (combination of ma'am and sir)
NugsyNash@federated.pro 8 months ago
I’m a fellow southerner with the same training. I use “yes, please” or “no, thank you” for the “yes sirs/ma’ams” and even the older generations don’t notice.
I_Fart_Glitter@lemmy.world 8 months ago
I like “Hello GentlePerson!” It’s oddly formal, so no one can say you aren’t being polite, and it’s gender neutral.
ALostInquirer@lemm.ee 8 months ago
And omg, if you need to go with a feminine honorific and you don’t know whether the person is married, go with Ms, not Mrs. or Miss.
I understand what you mean here, except on the difference between Ms and Miss, do you mean this more in terms of writing than speaking? I ask only because I don’t know that I’ve ever been able to hear a particular difference between Ms and Miss when spoken, but that may be more related to my hearing or something that I’ve not realized.
poppy@lemm.ee 8 months ago
I understand what you mean here, except on the difference between Ms and Miss, do you mean this more in terms of writing than speaking? I ask only because I don’t know that I’ve ever been able to hear a particular difference between Ms and Miss when spoken, but that may be more related to my hearing or something that I’ve not realized.
“Ms.” Is pronounced “mizzz” kinda like you’re a bee, “Miss” is pronounced “missss” like a snake.
clockwork_octopus@lemmy.world 8 months ago
Also, calling a woman either Mrs or Miss defines her by her marital status. Since we are more than that, Ms is more appropriate (assuming that an honorific must be used at all).
BackOnMyBS@lemmy.world 8 months ago
those are good points, thank you!
HardlightCereal@lemmy.world 8 months ago
Mx (pronounced “mix”) is getting more common
Also, Dr
frankPodmore@slrpnk.net 8 months ago
Not a contemporary one, but during the French Revolution, they used ‘Citizen’ for everyone.
can@sh.itjust.works 8 months ago
comrade
sivanataraja@lemmy.world 8 months ago
Which, in French, is “citoyen” (masculine) or “citoyenne” (feminine). Not a neutral gendered word.
frankPodmore@slrpnk.net 8 months ago
But it is gender neutral in English, the language OP was asking about.
lemann@lemmy.one 8 months ago
Tmw
︽cars are recognised as French citizens
Silverseren@kbin.social 8 months ago
Mx. seems the most commonly used for gender neutral. It's used both by non-binary people and in cases where you purposefully don't want to put a gender as a prefix.
h3mlocke@lemm.ee 8 months ago
Is it just pronounced “mix?”
Silverseren@kbin.social 8 months ago
Usually, yes.
poppy@lemm.ee 8 months ago
Too bad we can’t adopt the Japanese “-san” honorific, as it is gender neutral!
BackOnMyBS@lemmy.world 8 months ago
I think we can!
wildbus8979@sh.itjust.works 8 months ago
Sup, fool?
jscummy@sh.itjust.works 8 months ago
Wagwan fam?
Maddie@sh.itjust.works 8 months ago
“My Liege”
bennyp@kbin.social 8 months ago
The Right Honorable
Firefly7@lemmy.blahaj.zone 8 months ago
Mx is common-ish. Here’s a relevant poll regarding people’s usages of it: www.gendercensus.com/results/2023-mx/
BackOnMyBS@lemmy.world 8 months ago
Wo,w, I didn’t expect those results. Pretty impressive. Thanks for sharing!
Urbanfox@lemmy.world 8 months ago
I work on websites and have carried out extensive user testing to get the right non-binary honorific, and it ended up being Mx.
Implemented it on every site I’ve worked on now.
ougi@lemmy.world 8 months ago
Comrade, or Captain
PostmodernPythia@lemmy.world 8 months ago
This is exactly my approach, except I usually use Cap’n.
bokster@lemmy.sdf.org 8 months ago
In all seriousness, I think I’ve seen ‘Mx’ used in this context.
Usually though, you’d go with a generic greeting such as ‘Dear Sir or Madam’ or ‘To whom it may concern’.
I_Fart_Glitter@lemmy.world 8 months ago
I’m still trying to figure out how you pronounce that. Mix? Mks? Mex? M’ex?
macji@pawb.social 8 months ago
It’s pronounced Mix.
Fisk400@feddit.nu 8 months ago
According to the pronoun survey someone posted here, all of those are acceptable. Mix seems to be winning tough.
Laticauda@lemmy.ca 8 months ago
Lord [name], my [name], my dear [name], the one they call [name], oh great and powerful [name].
Jokes aside, one I’ve heard of that I liked was “misc” like miscellaneous lol. That one works a bit better in writing that verbal though.
Some other popular ones include Mx, M, Ind/Div, N/A, Mt, Nb, and many others.
For my own personal suggestion, I kinda like the idea of using “The” as a gender neutral title. Like instead or Mr or Ms Smith, it’s The Smith. Has a nice ring to it lol
Hadriscus@lemm.ee 8 months ago
Hello, The Gary…
Laticauda@lemmy.ca 8 months ago
You can’t tell me that isn’t objectively the best way to refer to someone named Gary.
rmuk@feddit.uk 8 months ago
Chookity!
paddirn@lemmy.world 8 months ago
“Yo.”
Dr_Cog@mander.xyz 8 months ago
My wife and I are both Dr. X
TheWoozy@lemmy.world 8 months ago
Liar!! You are “Dr. Cog”
Dr_Cog@mander.xyz 8 months ago
Not since Elon Musk bought me for 44 billion dollars
httpjames@sh.itjust.works 8 months ago
Dr. Twitter???
girl@lemm.ee 8 months ago
Dr. The Site Formerly Known as Twitter
Deestan@lemmy.world 8 months ago
Comrade
regalia@literature.cafe 8 months ago
“Bro”
Lux@lemmy.blahaj.zone 8 months ago
I vote stop using honorifics entirely
feral_hedgehog@pawb.social 8 months ago
“Oi, fuckface!”
MedicPigBabySaver@lemm.ee 8 months ago
“Hey, you!”
Dagwood222@lemm.ee 8 months ago
‘Citizen…’
theKalash@feddit.ch 8 months ago
Doctor, Professor.
nemo20000@mastodon.online 8 months ago
@BackOnMyBS Mx. Not widely used.
whofearsthenight@lemm.ee 8 months ago
stolen from a post on mastodon earlier, but: foolish mortal(s)
ChlorineAddict@lemmy.world 8 months ago
Shklee or Shkler
Kolanaki@yiffit.net 8 months ago
Doctor and Professor are the only two I know.
ivanafterall@kbin.social 8 months ago
"Hey cunt" works for either. But your mileage may vary depending on your location.
paper_clip@kbin.social 8 months ago
Should that not be properly, "Oi, cunt!" ?
ivanafterall@kbin.social 8 months ago
Depends on what you're going for, I guess. I'm just an American who doesn't like most people.
CetaceanNeeded@lemmy.world 8 months ago
Works best in Australia
Vaginal_blood_fart@sh.itjust.works 8 months ago
Scotland concurs