*mandated paid leave
There are a ton of people in the US who have really good paid leave policies at their jobs, it’s just that there are also a ton of people who have really bad leave policies at their jobs
Paid Leave Olympics
Submitted 4 months ago by FlyingSquid@lemmy.world to workreform@lemmy.world
https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/64cf9373-abe1-40a2-b918-8eef809bdad5.png
Comments
protist@mander.xyz 4 months ago
otp@sh.itjust.works 4 months ago
Yes, that’s the point.
There are a ton of people in the US who have none of that paid leave.
In France (and many other countries), paid leave is a right that’s protected by law. So everyone gets it.
protist@mander.xyz 4 months ago
I didn’t say at all that it doesn’t matter
aidan@lemmy.world 4 months ago
“It doesn’t matter what minimum wage is because lots of people make more than minimum wage!”
Which is kinda true when essentially no-one except for teenagers makes minimum wage.
victorz@lemmy.world 4 months ago
Sweden:
- 25-35 days vacation, most commonly.
- Maternity + paternity leave: 480 days combined, per child.
- Sick leave: almost ♾️ as far as I know, too…?
🥇❔
toofpic@lemmy.world 4 months ago
pretty much the same in Denmark. I still don’t know how to spend all of the vacation days. We just used up Mandatory 3 summer weeks, and I’m kinda tired of resting this year, but I still have 3 weeks left
Tja@programming.dev 4 months ago
I had a similar situation last year after being on paternity leave 5 months and then still having 30 days of PTO.
Solution: 4 day work week. Either Wednesdays or Fridays off. I took Wednesdays. You have two “Fridays” per week and Friday is never more than one working day away. You get one day a week completely for you, kids in school, partner at work, every shop and office open. You can do any delayed paperwork, any repairs around the house, take a jew hobby, or just watch TV for 6 hours straight (wouldnt recommend every week but it took me back to my days of being sick from school).
If you are single and like traveling probably Fridays would be better.
victorz@lemmy.world 4 months ago
We usually use a day or two here and there to get long weekends where there are one-off holidays. It helps spend the days, and gives you some needed rest during the working period of the year. 👍
qarbone@lemmy.world 4 months ago
Why isn’t there an emoji for rage-filled weeping of blood and gnashing of teeth?
Emojis are the only way I can express emotion.
visnae@lemmy.world 4 months ago
Isn’t it nowadays also grandparents can get some of the parental leave if they help with the child? Sick leave is not infinity, but you would need to get a long period of illness before anything happens I guess.
victorz@lemmy.world 4 months ago
Yep, I believe so. And you can also even transfer parental leave to a friend, if they help with the child. We did this for a friend of ours who is a single mom and needed help with her child.
uis@lemm.ee 4 months ago
Ok, Sweeden is better than Russia. After Pu goes to Hauge(or Russian prison) things may change.
Wait, we were comparing to USA? Yeah, we know it’s a corpse.
fine_sandy_bottom@discuss.tchncs.de 4 months ago
How does infinite sick leave work?
In Australia an employer pays 12 or so days a year for personal leave, (+ 12 public holidays + 20 days annual leave).
Any additional sick leave is unpaid.
An employer couldn’t really be expected to pay sick leave indefinitely. Is it paid by some kind of insurance or social security?
You can claim a govt pension for illness. It’s difficult to qualify long term though.
Krzd@lemmy.world 4 months ago
In Germany your employer has to pay for all sick leave up to continuous 6 weeks. After that insurance pays you 60% of your last paycheck. There are a lot of exceptions, for example if it’s a work related accident your employer has to pay 100% of your last paycheck indefinitely until you go into early/disability retirement.
dafo@lemmy.world 4 months ago
Let’s say I get sick
Day 1: 0% pay Day 2-14: 80% pay from my employer Day 15-90: “barely” 80% from Försäkringskassan, up to a relatively low ceiling (disfavours those with high incomes, doesn’t really affect the common worker). With a collective agreement from a union you could also get an additional 10-15%(?) from your employer Day 90-: pretty much the same, the 10% from the employer is replaced by insurance instead. If you’re sick this long it’ll be a bit of a bureaucratic PITA
fluckx@lemmy.world 4 months ago
In Belgium There’s a social security system that pays your wage when you’re sick up a certain maximum. The first month(4 weeks) you get sick is fully paid by the employer. After that you get paid by social security for 60% of your wage up until a certain maximum.
If you are absent from work for 8 months ( cancer, surgery, burn out, … ) you would be paid for every day you are absent, albeit less after a month.
While sick you are also protected from being fired. So employers can’t fire you because you’re out fighting cancer. It is mostly adhered to. If an employer would fire somebody who got cancer or because they got a burn-out/depression I’d probably find a different employer.
It’s a good system, but with its own challenges ( abuse ). I honestly can’t imagine having a fixed amount of paid sick days.
your employer can always “challenge” your sickness by sending a company physician, which they’d have to pay for. Some companies do it per definition, others never, some only when they suspect abuse.
ChickenLadyLovesLife@lemmy.world 4 months ago
How does infinite sick leave work?
At one of my previous jobs (in the US) we had unlimited Paid Time Off. In practice, you’re still under the same pressure to get shit done or get canned so you don’t really take any more time off than you would have otherwise. And when you’re eventually canned anyway in order to boost the stock price, you don’t have any accrued time off that has to be paid out in a lump sum.
Sibbo@sopuli.xyz 4 months ago
480 days are not paid are they? Because in Finland and Germany you get about one year paid that you can distribute between the parents. And up to two more years unpaid.
victorz@lemmy.world 4 months ago
480 days, paid. You can’t distribute between the parents here however you like though. Only 45 days are transferable between partners, to encourage equal time spent with the child.
Also some amount of days out of the 480 are of one level of compensation, and the rest are of another level. I don’t recall the specifics of that off the top of my head, though.
TheMightyCanuck@sh.itjust.works 4 months ago
Found out this year my country offers father’s 52 weeks paternity leave with pay (~60% full time earnings)
Couldn’t imagine just dropping this little guy on my wife and heading to work the next day
pyre@lemmy.world 4 months ago
I’ve always found it dumb that fathers get less paid leave. but i guess it’s better than… checks notes… zero.
TheMightyCanuck@sh.itjust.works 4 months ago
You could make the argument that they don’t have massive body trauma to heal from…
But I think the time is more important to form that first bond more than anything
AA5B@lemmy.world 4 months ago
True story - the time I almost got direct immediate benefit from a feminist organization …… when my kids were born, there was no leave so the best I could do was one week vacation. However a good friend of mine thought it was unfair so got together with her feminist group and petitioned the company for paternity leave!
They didn’t go for it, at least in time to help me, but they did do it before FMLA made them do something
Showroom7561@lemmy.ca 4 months ago
Jesus. I wouldn’t know what to do with 30 days vacation per year. That would be life changing.
crapwittyname@lemm.ee 4 months ago
I used to work in France. The 30 days is just the beginning. I ended up with 44 paid holidays per year towards the end of my contract. There are different types of paid leave and I got 9 days extra because one of my children has a disability.
However, the work culture in France is extremely toxic. You face a sort of social othering if you don’t conform with the unspoken rules which are even harder to understand if French is not your first language. Punishments include being managed/bored out and being “put in the cupboard” where you’re given a dead end role and basically left to rot until retirement. There’s a history of work related suicide in France.
Even so, you are a lot more free than in other countries. I’m not complaining. Plus, unions still have actual power there (although that is being eroded down)
jerkface@lemmy.ca 4 months ago
yeah, I’ll be really sad about that taking two months of vacation a year
TheBat@lemmy.world 4 months ago
That’s just bare minimum mandated by law. Some companies offer even more than that.
otp@sh.itjust.works 4 months ago
Don’t want to spend all your money on vacation? Just take Fridays off during your favourite season to spend outdoors!
johan@feddit.nl 4 months ago
Where I’m from a 36 hour work week is the norm. I work 4 × 9 hours and have every Wednesday off (plus I have like 9 weeks off every year). Some colleagues do work 40 hours a week and then save a day off every two weeks. A friend does this and he takes one fairly long holiday (like a month) and also a week or two off every two months or something.
And you can also take a sabbatical and be guaranteed of your job when you get back. A guy I know from another department took a year off to take a trip around the world with his girlfriend.
cestvrai@lemm.ee 4 months ago
I take all Fridays off (4x8), but I only have 27 days PTO because of that rather than 33.
travysh@lemm.ee 4 months ago
Between my current job (unlimited PTO) and my last (30 days PTO) I’ve had 30+ for the last 10 years.
Last year I used 35+ days.
A lot of it goes to smaller things. 1 or 2 days here and there. Few days camping, turn a 3 day weekend in to a 4 day, etc… It really can change how you use your time.
Ashiette@lemmy.world 4 months ago
I’m in France and have ~120 paid vacation days per year. My full time is 18h/week. The pay is okayish. But for all those advantages, it’s great.
Obi@sopuli.xyz 4 months ago
Teacher?
slickgoat@lemmy.world 4 months ago
Australia too. At least until we imported all that “contractor” bullshit from overseas. After 1 year service you get four weeks leave - every year.
uis@lemm.ee 4 months ago
Live life
bitchkat@lemmy.world 4 months ago
I get 30 some days of vacation and I forget what for sick. Believe me, you’d figure out how to use you.
Showroom7561@lemmy.ca 4 months ago
Believe me, you’d figure out how to use you.
For sure. I tend to take every friday off with my vacation time, but that’s really only for a few months. If I could do that for half the year, it really would change my life.
HexadecimalSky@lemmy.world 4 months ago
Reminds me of a comedians joke,
American: and how many sick days go you get off?
European: All of them? If you’re sick, you don’t go to work…
FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 4 months ago
That’s not a joke, that’s just a fact. A sad fact for some of us on the left side of the pond.
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 4 months ago
Crazy how Europe outperformed the US during COVID.
TheDoozer@lemmy.world 4 months ago
So… I’m not shilling for the military, but…
Coast guard gets 30 days of leave, 3 months of paternity leave, and unlimited sick days.
Just saying.
Doxatek@mander.xyz 4 months ago
It’d be cool except the non zero chance of catching a bullet just because I wanted to have benefits other people have for free… and I know that I could be shot in civilian life too. But like, doesn’t that just make it worse
TheDoozer@lemmy.world 4 months ago
I suppose. I’m far more likely to die in a helicopter crash. Never been shot at, nor have just about anybody I’ve worked with. The only people who have gone to a war zone in the past couple decades were people who specifically requested it.
Though I have worked with a few who survived helicopter crashes (five, between two crashes), so definitely not without its dangers. That’s the specific job I chose, though. Plenty of jobs in the Coast Guard with paper cuts or oven-related burns as the most danger they’ll experience.
aidan@lemmy.world 4 months ago
It’d be cool except the non zero chance of catching a bullet
In the coast guard? I think you’d have a higher risk just walking in many cities.
ChickenLadyLovesLife@lemmy.world 4 months ago
Edit: to be clear, US Coast Guard.
Was about to say, the Lesotho coast guard doesn’t have anything that good.
catloaf@lemm.ee 4 months ago
Lesotho doesn’t have a coast.
Then again, Switzerland is also landlocked, but they do have a navy.
PugJesus@lemmy.world 4 months ago
When one’s employer has lower regard for their employee’s welfare than the US military, something is well and truly borked.
t. many military friends and family with infinite horror stories about health damage outside of combat zones and lots of “Not Service Related” responses
SendMePhotos@lemmy.world 4 months ago
So… A big blue retail company is on par… When I worked there I got 16 weeks of paternity leave paid (well, between a mixture of paid leave and PTO), 31 days of PTO, and… Any sick days came out of the PTO.
Was a salaried manager.
Can’t believe I’m saying it, but nobody has ever been able to come close to their benefits that I know of, at least in the US.
Obi@sopuli.xyz 4 months ago
Costco?
pythonoob@programming.dev 4 months ago
USAF too
Valmond@lemmy.world 4 months ago
The obligatory (paid ofc) vacation is 5 weeks not 6.
Lots of people have more, like 6 weeks + 12-24 RTT (days you can take here and there, it’s really great) and sometimes you can trade them for money etc., with the exception of the 5 weeks.
Louisoix@lemm.ee 4 months ago
And some people say it’s a toxic work culture in Japan. I mean, it’s far from perfect, but still not like the example here.
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 4 months ago
The toxic culture in Japan stems from the unspoken expectations.
You have a 40 hour schedule, but you’re expected to be in the office for +60. You get vacation time, but it’s shameful to use it. Women (particularly young women) aren’t given promotions or professional advancement because it’s assumed they’ll quit to become housewives as soon as they find a husband of a higher station.
All that shit you hear about microaggression, implicit bias, and structural racism run rampant in the Japanese corporate world.
ILikeBoobies@lemmy.ca 4 months ago
When Japan capped overtime to 45 hours per month
It became shameful to log your overtime
Also to get time in a half you need to work over 60 hours but you don’t get that if you aren’t logging
dejected_warp_core@lemmy.world 4 months ago
There’s some hope though. Younger people are starting to call bullshit on all this. Perhaps the fact that there’s an abudance of overworked old people everywhere is helping drive different thinking for everyone else: www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQs4NERVZxc
_ffiresticks_@lemmy.world 4 months ago
In Massachusetts where I’m lucky enough to live, everyone is given at least 12 weeks paid bonding time for birth of a child that can be taken as needed for up to one year after birth of their child. The birthing parents also gets 6-8 weeks of additional paid time. I think some other New England states also have a similar benefits. It’s an awesome program that should be modeled around the rest of the nation. Really IMO it should be a full 52 weeks, but I’ll take it as a solid starting point
AShadyRaven@lemmy.zip 4 months ago
im in Virginia and one time i had a really bad norovirus infection and my employer told me i would terminated if i didn’t show up and that he couldnt do anything about it (this was my 6th sick day in the past 11 months)
i showed up and had an accident on myself, very messy. Norovirus messy.
I walked into his office, reeking like hell, and i asked him if he had any mints or febreeze
He tried to send me home to change and i declined.
Nurgus@lemmy.world 4 months ago
I think we’re all hoping you successfully infected your boss.
FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 4 months ago
Isn’t that due to Mitt Romney of all people? Part of “Romneycare?” I don’t want to give him credit, but that’s what I seem to remember.
otp@sh.itjust.works 4 months ago
Where I live in Canada, we used to have 0 paid sick days, then we got 3 days shortly before an election, and they lost and the replacement party removed those 3 paid sick days.
They also chopped down the unpaid sick days from 10 to 3, probably hoping nobody would notice.
Nobody noticed. They got re-elected with a majority vote (done by about 1/3 of the voting population)
RudeOnTuesdays@lemmy.world 4 months ago
Yeah. Ontario voters and smooth brains. Name a better combination.
BoredPanda@sh.itjust.works 4 months ago
But you also get half the salary, compared to the US. Taxes are probably on a similar level, but you get more for your taxes in France.
It’s not all good. As a single, somewhat ambitious guy living in Europe, I’m planning to move to the US, because building wealth in most of Europe is much harder, so you are effectively a slave of the system. You get a barely livable salary, you pay half of it to the taxman, and half of the remaining net salary in rent (or mortgage). If you are a single guy like me, you get barely anything in return. And since the European economy is struggling, and European governments are going all in on austerity, the situation regarding taxes and social benefits will only deteriorate.
PTO is nice, but it doesn’t tell the whole story. At the end of the day, I feel better having the freedom in the shape of $$$ in my pocket, compared to being at the mercy of a government, which I don’t fully trust, to treat me well.
Keltha@lemmy.world 4 months ago
I feel you’re discarding the free education and Healthcare system you were able to enjoy (because it’s available for everyone) until you’ve decided you could do better for yourself by yourself.
As a single straight healthy educated white dude, yes you could probably do better for yourself in the US, it just takes forsaking the meaning of solidarity. As long you don’t do the usual thing of coming back to Europe whenever you’re sick / having children because “it’s just so expensive in the US and it’s harder to have a family life there”
EnderMB@lemmy.world 4 months ago
I work in a big tech company, and there are probably interns in NY/Cali that get paid better than I do as an experienced engineer in the UK.
Most of the people I work with in NYC live like students, despite having a yearly salary that could probably cover a sizable chunk of a UK pension. I own a house and have enough saved to not need to work for several months, yet there are people that vastly outearn me in the US and still get fucked by healthcare costs, rent, house prices, etc.
I do understand that building wealth is tricky, but I think you’ll be extremely shocked at how high the costs are in some places, and how many people that do build wealth are rolling the dice on health insurance and not taking sick days/vacation. I’m considering a move to LA this year, and despite a high-band salary my life will likely be considerably worse, purely looking at the rent prices in/near Santa Monica…
Ookami38@sh.itjust.works 4 months ago
Bud, you’re in for a haaaaaaaaaaaarsh awakening if you think all of those negatives in your second paragraph isn’t exactly what the states are, magnified.
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 4 months ago
A lot of private professional trades in the US get all of these. They’re “economically viable” for a certain class of (supposedly very productive and important) staff but completely untenable for another larger, lower class of (supposedly lazy and easily replaceable) staff.
Even within the same firm.
If you work in McDs Corporate or occupy a management position at The Dollar Tree, somehow there’s money for leave that doesn’t exist for everyone else
BigBananaDealer@lemm.ee 4 months ago
my job has “paid sick time” but you cant use it if youre out of PTO and if you have PTO it takes off your PTO. how dumb is that. my coworker lost all his PTO by getting super sick for 2 weeks at the start of the year
Wytch@lemmy.zip 4 months ago
We got a whole generation full of lead paint chips to thank for this
k4rm4cub3@lemmynsfw.com 4 months ago
Italy: Paid maternity leave: 5 months (plus two hours per day for breast feeding for the rest of the first year). Paid paternity leave: 10 days The parents also get an additional 6 months of “parental leave” between them where they can take off and get paid 30% of their normal salary. Paid sick leave: Capped at 180 days per year
2ugly2live@lemmy.world 4 months ago
Infinite sick time seems amazing. No longer working through an illness? And not having to cancel vacations to make time for it (or flex if your company even allows that)?
If only…
aidan@lemmy.world 4 months ago
Median income US: $48,625
Median income France: $29,131
You could take 1/3rd of the year off and still earn more.
Stuff like this gets baked into wages…
Nomecks@lemmy.ca 4 months ago
Those are rookie maternity numbers.
-Canada
pingveno@lemmy.world 4 months ago
I work in IT at a university. There is a state parental leave program, but above that the union bargained for additional parental leave.
The US has a significant separation between the federal and state levels. For a policy like this, you usually would find some of the more progressive states trying out different programs. Some more backward states will take a long time to come round. It really is more like a bunch of small to medium sized countries in that respect.
Russia is also working under very different demographics, which is probably driving at least the maternity leave. Birth rates are low and net migration, while positive, is not enough to keep up. The US has a birth rate that is closer to replacement and much higher net migration. That would mean lagging states would have less pressure to reform.
ILikeBoobies@lemmy.ca 4 months ago
Now hold on
America should get the silver medal here
metaphortune@lemmy.world 4 months ago
Well yeah, but what this image doesn’t mention is what would happen to the shareholders if we had paid leave for all in the US 😰 /j
Sanctus@lemmy.world 4 months ago
No, what it doesn’t show is what the French people did to get all that paid leave.
KillingAndKindess@lemmy.blahaj.zone 4 months ago
Exactly!
The elite need to be reminded of the old ways. France is still champ in international internal politics. Their protests often end up being a real headbanger…
magnor@lemmy.magnor.ovh 4 months ago
And what we must still do, regularly, to fight against people taking social rights from us. This is a hard thing to do, and we have lost a few battles lately.
rickyrigatoni@lemm.ee 4 months ago
Whatever it is, we should do it in America :)
uis@lemm.ee 4 months ago
Something Great and French. Later Russia followed them with something Great and October. Got universal healthcare, universal education, universal housing and labour law as result.
aidan@lemmy.world 4 months ago
Take 60% the salary
breadsmasher@lemmy.world 4 months ago
How could the poor, poor CEOs afford their super yachts?
MajorHavoc@programming.dev 4 months ago
And their 24 new cars!