Submitted 6 months ago by p03locke@lemmy.dbzer0.com to games@lemmy.world
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0g3IidBwYXo
To most of us, this is probably just a summary of events over the past year or so. But, it’s good to know that this sort of news is reaching non-gaming channels.
The past year or so? I remember saying this shit during the horse amour days and shitty hat days and expansion packs getting slimmer and slimmer.
By shitty hat do you mean tf2?
Cause that’s all I played during the rise of microTXs. To me, the way valve went about it was literally the line between monetization and not ruining the game.
I thought that meant it can be done, all it proved looking back is publicly traded companies suck!!
Hats actually ruined Tf2 for me and I think it’s weird people are fine with tf2 allowing it but not games like overwatch
I think what really started the current levels of rot was online passes for used games. They saw that people were playing without paying them directly, and wanted to stop it.
It was unpopular, as were map packs (which split the player base in online games), and here we are now with endless lootboxes and gacha elements. Sure, you can play without paying, but you’ll always feel like a second class citizen if you do. Everything you want will be held deliberately out of reach, and the aspect of “fun” has been reduced to collections and bars filling up.
It’s bred this generation of zombie gamers. I went to see my sister at Christmas, and her husband was playing Fallout 76 “doing his dailies”. I did ask what it was for and he said he didn’t really play it or want anything from the points it gives, and admitted what he was doing was kind of pointless. And then fired up the next game and did the same thing.
I tend to just stay away from multiplayer games these days. They’re pretty much all like that. The idea of playing because it’s fun is dead.
No matter how much hobbyists liked selling their games back to GameStop so the store can mark them up 500%, I have always hated that the industry of used games punished releasing fantastic short singleplayer games much much more than perpetual 2000-hour microtransaction live service games.
That crowd of gamers absolutely contributed to the fall. The general distrust of digital is acknowledged, but if people were just paying low/moderate sale prices for each SP game and keeping them, instead of paying used prices, we’d probably have fewer publishers moving this way.
But but Xitter told me it’s because of DEI and Sweet Baby inc.
Also Riccitiello has been fired from months ago Unity get your facts straight lady.
It’s been so tiring clicking through the Do Not Recommend option on every single channel mentioning Sweet Baby as the new flat earth conspiracy.
Man, I have to do this also. No idea why the algorithm doesn’t pick up on me not wanting to watch some idiot ranting about how videogames are woke or whatever.
It’s easier to rant about a boogeyman like SBI than to engage with any of the actual issues facing the industry, unfortunately
I love Gabi but her videos are never well researched imo. They’re fun not informative.
I disagree with the premise. Nothing has “ruined gaming”. On the production side, it’s a booming industry increasingly making footholds in popular culture. On the consumption side, players have more choice now than they have ever had. Nobody can go load up the front page of steam or even better, the top 100 most played from last year, and tell me with a straight face that we’re worse off than in the 90s or early 2000s without making an appeal to quality that will be heavily colored by their own nostalgia.
Now, are there a lot of games with greedy decision making, loot boxes, etc? Absolutely, nobody disputes that. I personally think there is nuance even there, because I genuinely am not bothered (as a player) by some forms of loot boxes or season passes. Even if you discount every game with those options though, you still have more choice than I did as a kid.
Totally disagree. The homogenization and enshittification of AAA games has meant that there is less choice than ever. More and more established IPs are tanking in quality and there aren’t enough new ones to replace them. There are certainly “more games”, but the problem with this quantity of quality style of production means that there are fewer standouts and unique experiences to actually choose from. This has resulted in entire genres collapsing under their own weight. There are still unique, standout games but I’d hardly say there are now that 10-15 years ago. And the ones we do have are more often than not made by indie and AA studios.
I’d argue that the indie and AA studios are making games today that are as good as or better than the pre-enshitification AAA games of the 90s and 00s. Maybe not quite as high in production value for cinematics, but on par or better for game content and play.
Like I’ve been largely ignoring AAA options and still have a huge backlog of games and generally have fun with new ones I try out, including finding new gems to add to my favourites.
So I guess if you have a base assumption that great games need to be AAA to even be contenders, the gaming situation looks worse than it did in the past, but IMO that assumption is flawed.
I don’t think what we’re saying is at odds though. Thinking that AAA games are in a terrible place is a totally valid opinion to have. You get at my point in the tail end of your comment though. It has never been easier for AA and indie studios to make solid games, and there has been an explosion relative to the past. I do not personally think “gaming is ruined” as a whole by AAA games sucking the same way movies aren’t ruined by Marvel and food isn’t ruined by McDonalds. Good games still exist, good movies still exist, good food still exists. Dig a little past that outer layer of the latest CoD or Assassin’s Creed and there’s a plethora of amazing, unique, non-exploitative games available. To me, that’s an argument that gaming is better than it’s ever been.
Your point in there about there being less standouts is really the one that gets at what I’m saying. I do disagree though. If we look at prior eras of gaming, it was almost exclusively AAA making sales and driving the direction of the industry. Even just releasing a game on a major platform was insanely prohibitive. Now, I have a massive laundry list of totally awesome indies. Outer Wilds made me cry, Return of the Obra Dinn was a concept I have never seen before, Baldur’s Gate ruined a month of my life. What series of indie or even AAA releases was able to do a run of games like that in the 360/ps3 era? We barely had xbox arcade on consoles and steam was still in bare infancy, more associated as being an orange box launcher than as a marketplace for indies.
sigh. ok boomer, that wasn’t the conversation but sure, pipe in with a story about the old days, we care
I think this is the first time I’ve ever been called a boomer lol. All good if yall feel a different way. I just think if we have BG3, Helldivers, and Elden Ring in the span of 3 years, it’s hard to say we’re at a loss for good games.
Maybe watch the video lol? She acknowledges games are better then they’ve ever been, she’s just pointing out how corporate greed has created a trend of publishers forcing half-baked games out the front door and fixing them later (or not).
But that’s my point, how is that “ruining gaming”? Her words in the video do not support the premise. Just don’t play those games, and you have a larger backlog than ever of games that she admits are better than they’ve ever been. The presence of bad games does not ruin the good ones. This video is just rage bait for upset gamers.
In other words: “Because I’m not bothered by X, neither should you be”.
I don’t think that’s a reasonable paraphrase of my argument. I think you’re perfectly entitled to be bothered by things like loot boxes in gaming. I am more than troubled by their implementation in a lot of games aimed at children, like I imagine a lot of us are.
That is a far cry from saying “gaming is ruined”, and that’s really my entire point. One or even several things you’re bothered by existing doesn’t mean that the entire industry or state of gaming is in any way “ruined”.
Capitalism ruins all in its insatiable pursuit for more and more. Perhaps this isn’t the ultimate way to live our lives? What if there was other undiscovered ways to live our lives? How could we ever discover them if we allow the status quo to stagnate?
Seeking infinite growth in a finite system. Biologists call that cancer.
Bingo!
In before the capitalist apologists telling us how bad all the other systems are that nobody suggested we use and how great capitalism is while rejecting any suggestions to how it could be reined in.
Just mainstream gaming. Those guys deserved it, anyway.
No, the people who deserved it are the ones at the top with garages full of supercars and fleets of private yachts. The Bobby Koticks, the Don Mattricks, etc.
The ones who I guarantee you are NOT suffering or losing their livelihoods.
The tens of thousands of devs who got into making video games because of their deep love of them… devs who have worked countless hours and crunched over the holidays while missing out on sleep, family events and more all just because management won’t plan, can’t stop chasing trends and pivoting the project, and because they fired 10% of the team last quarter to boost the share price by $0.02.
The devs didn’t deserve any of that.
They don’t deserve to lose their jobs right after some game ships and it turns out no one wants to pay $70 plus micro transactions shoved in their faces every other round between matches.
AAA gaming is broken and many of my peers from that industry seem to be in a bad spot now at no fault of their own… but their boss’s boss’s bosses who keep steering the ship into rocks are the ones you should be throwing rotten produce at.
whoever downvoted this is an absolute retard
Maybe game developers should wake up and understand that people like to be able to customize their characters cosmetically and not just click to slash over and over and over again.
You want consumers to spend money based on how much effort you put into a product instead of how appealing it is to the consumer? Newsflash, that’s not how capitalism works.
Greed ruins everything.
Use code GATEKEEP50 to get 50% OFF your first Factor box plus 20% off your next box at bit.ly/3IJRP6tbig thanks to @JoshStrifeHayes for chatting with…
:-|
I don’t get it
I think for calling out a sponsorship on a video about greed?
I don’t generally begrudge content creators their sponsorships, gotta pay the bills somehow, god knows youtube’s going to do everything in its power to make sure videos get demonetized.
Newsflash gamers greed is ruining everything not just the sand you have buried your heads in.
Yo not gonna lie kinda vibe with this comment. I love gaming as an art and a social activity but it’s also the “sand I bury my head in”. I’m currently on a Factorio playthrough that I started purely as a distraction for my latest bout of depression.
And I do also agree greed has ruined a lot more “important” things than gaming.
But also, no need to shame people for wanting something they love to be free from corporate greed. Be cool friend.
Spoiler: it was greed.
It’s not greed. It’s dumb gamers buying anything shit out by these companies.
Capitalism
BrikoX@lemmy.zip 6 months ago
Blame gamers for embracing every single greedy move and asking for more. If you shout how fucked up this is and still open your wallet, you are the problem.
bionicjoey@lemmy.ca 6 months ago
Gamers aren’t a monolith. I’m not going to blame the people who appreciate gaming as an art form when the problem is the people who will buy the latest Madden and Cod games every year
EldritchFeminity@lemmy.blahaj.zone 6 months ago
There’s a big flaw in your logic.
The biggest portion of people buying this stuff aren’t “gamers” in the way that it’s often used around these circles. It’s the millions of people who buy coins for their Bejeweled clone of choice and have never owned a console in their life. And there’s so many new kids entering gaming all the time who have never known a better world. I remember a Twitch streamer talking about how heartbreaking it was when AC6 came out and gave you the full color wheel plus multiple channels to customize your mech, and their chat was full of kids shocked that you didn’t have to buy skins or color packs. That’s how it used to be. You’d unlock skins by playing the game, not buying them in the store, but that hasn’t been the case in decades now.
And the often touted story of the whale with more money than sense is a myth. Do they exist? Sure. But the vast majority of money coming from mtx from gamers is from people who are psychologically vulnerable to addiction/gambling and people with a poor ability to comprehend finances like kids. These companies have hired psychologists to tell them how to best extract money from your wallet by probing your brain in just the right way. From lootboxes to battle passes and seasonal content to daily quests and washing money through funny money currencies, it’s all been designed to prey upon people with addiction issues, ADHD, training young kids into gambling addicts, etc. It’s the Lotto tickets and pumping extra oxygen into the air of casinos and making sure there’s no natural light in there so you don’t realize how long you’ve been playing slots of the gaming world. Look at WoW, with its daily quests. They train players using Skinner Box techniques to continue logging into the game and paying the monthly subscription long after they’ve stopped enjoying it because it’s become a habit and they are afraid of falling behind.
Voting with your wallet isn’t going to fix it. You’ll never get your average Facebook mom to care enough not to buy Farmville tokens or whatever, and these companies will never stop abusing psychology on their own. Only industry regulation will stop this.
Carighan@lemmy.world 6 months ago
That’s the real big issue here, IMO: The North Korea approach. Kids are starting to become able to spend money who were indoctrinated with this. Because to them it’s the north. It’s just a part of this entertainment that you continuously spend small amounts of cash. To them it’s normality.
kaputter_Aimbot@feddit.de 6 months ago
Those are the real criminals! With all the good they could have done in today’s society, choosing to use their knowledge and training to manipulate people against their best interest is just the worst!
ricdeh@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Thank you kindly for your good write-up. If you were to permit it I would like to use excerpts of this in slightly rephrased forms in similar future discussions.
maynarkh@feddit.nl 6 months ago
Vote with your wallet means people with more money get more votes than you do. MTX does not target people at large, they are fishing for the small amount of whales for whom money is no object. It ruins gaming for the rest of us.
There is a reason industries get regulated. Swill milk killed a ton of babies, and sold like hot cakes.
inclementimmigrant@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Up to a point. I mean they have to get a large player base still and if by and large gamers just didn’t pre-order and buy the latest fucking re-hashed, yearly version of COD, I doubt just the whales would be enough to sustain them since whales only get gratification of pay to win.
I mean look at some of the latest rounds of shitty GaaS. Suicide squad, Marvel avengers. No playerbase, not enough whales to sustain.
Landless2029@lemmy.world 6 months ago
MTX is also aiming for kids stealing thier parents credit cards and charging them up. At a minimum they ask ONLY for game credits for Xmas/bdays to burn on games so they have cool skins to brag to friends about.
EatATaco@lemm.ee 6 months ago
I played multiple supercell games (coc, bb, cr, be) for years, each, without paying a dime. They were well polished and fun games, and I got to play them for free.
I also really enjoy foetnite. Again, well polished. I play for free.
Will I ever compete at the highest level? No. And omg I’ll never own all the skins! Lol But I’ve had plenty of fun, because other people will pay the game makers for me. This is fantastic, as far as I’m concerned.
Sure, mtx can be implemented terribly, but I’ve also benefitted from it’s implementation as well.
FeelzGoodMan420@eviltoast.org 6 months ago
I have to agree. The issue is that people keep buying these dogshit live service games. If people didn’t buy them then companies wouldn’t make them.
Triple_B@lemmy.zip 6 months ago
Another issue, those people aren’t on here. Or reddit. We’re preaching to the choir and idk what to do outside of standing outside of a Gamestop and trying to lecture people about MTX, but that seems like a good way to get ignored or beat up.
grue@lemmy.world 6 months ago
We failed to hold the line at the goddamn horse armor.
heavy@sh.itjust.works 6 months ago
I’m sure there are cases where someone is spending money they shouldn’t, or they know better, but we have to acknowledge that a lot of tactics used are the same predatory strategies that take advantage of human addiction. I don’t think people should gamble, or bet on sports but that shit is everywhere, and it’s normalized. It’s no wonder why so many people fall into it because they don’t think it’s dangerous.
We can scream at people and tell them to stop, but that’s not a real solution, at least I don’t see how that really works. A predatory studio puts out a game that people want to play, then if it fails because people don’t buy enough, they just shut everything down and cancel the content, even when people want it. I think there examples of this happening now.
CosmoNova@lemmy.world 6 months ago
The „gamer“ label has become sort of redundant given the industry is much bigger than movies and music combined now. They‘re just consumers and no matter what silly decisions some of them make, they need protection from certain practices for the good of all of us. Just blaming a small portion of them doesn‘t help us out of any mess.
Moneo@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Yeah I love Gabi but it hurts that she doesn’t even seem to question whether or not she should stop buying these games. Like, I get that you love Pokemon but you acknowledge yourself that this shit isn’t going to change if people keep buying this shit.
GladiusB@lemmy.world 6 months ago
The gamers?! I don’t hear anyone saying they want loot boxes. This is 100 percent the devs and the companies that put all the best loot behind the loot boxes. Good games such as FFXIV, does not.
masterspace@lemmy.ca 6 months ago
Lol I take it you’re a republican?
Let’s blame the consumer for buying something they like, and not the system of capitalism for it’s inevitable march to enshittification which happens across all industries amirght?