Submitted 1 month ago by stardustpathsofglory@lemmy.world to mildlyinfuriating@lemmy.world
https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/a7fe88de-a2d8-446d-ab9c-5d5b8b390361.png
Why would you call something “plant based” when it uses a lot of plastic which after short time degrades and exposes it to the environment?
Not all plant based leather uses plastic. It’s unfortunate that plant+plastic mixes are allowed to call themselves plant based leather.
You’d be shocked what they allow to be called leather. I expect the environmental impact of leather is far worse than the production of vinyl. Tanning is pretty nasty.
“Real” leather (A.K.A. someone else’s skin) is also usually coated in plastic and processed with extremely harmful chromium salts, so it’s usually not any better than the worst leather alternative.
And veg tan? I try not to use chrome tan in stuff I make for both environmental reasons and the fact its a pain to work with but we have been veg tanning for thousands of years.
While the conclusion of this argument is valid your premises don’t follow a logical sequence. Firstly, leather is defined as a material obtained from rawhide which is tanned (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leather) - this is real leather, there is no need for calls to ignorance here.
Secondly, what do mean by referring to “someone else’s”? Because the common usage for such statements usually mean human, not non-human animals. This essentially looks like an emotional appeal at this point.
Thirdly, you state that it is common for leather to be coated in plastic. While this is technically correct - as large portion of the market is composed of reusing scraps, it dismisses leather production from virgin rawhide and processes using vegetable or synthetic tanning which don’t need plastic for the resultant product.
I don’t really understand all the hate/cynicism towards vegan leather. Like yeah obviously plastic is bad for the environment, but raising cows and dumping thousands of tons of chromium into rural waterways for the tanning process aren’t good either. Leather is actually far worse for the environment by some metrics.
Plus there’s the fact that most leather is sealed with plastic/acrylic to increase its longevity anyway, unless you’re buying something wicked expensive.
Plastic is just as bad for the environment, not to mention people’s health, as those cows.
You clearly haven’t chugged chromium water
Leather can last for many decades if treated well. Vegan leather aka plastic lasts a few years tops.
It must be pretty hard to understand if you don’t think about it too hard.
I do hobby-level leatherworking and I’m all here for real non-animal leathers but yeah, basically all of them, cactus, mango, pineapple leaf etc. all just get put on a PU backing…
I got excited for cork leather at one point but turns out that is also either PU backed or fabric backed (which is better but doesn’t really work as a direct replacement for leather, especially structurally).
There are a few I’m more excited for and I would love to get hold of but they still seem either experimental or used directly by the makers for their own finished products. Most are fungus based, so one is SCOBY leather, basically the big blob of microorganisms used to make kombucha can be grown in big flat sheets, dried and treated to make a leathery material but I’ve not seen many applications of it yet…
But mushroom/mycelial leather is the one I’m most hopeful for. Not only do some of them look like real leather but the random ‘grain’ of the mycelium has the potential to ape the natural fibrous grain of leather that gives it its strength. That is the one I’m really excited for.
That was interesting AF, actually. I’m hyped for shroom leather!
Polyurethane couldn’t sell the couches because it simply as sexy as plant-based leather.
Vegan leather is what they call plastic imitation leather nowadays
And it’s fucking terrible compared to real leather. It’ll start flaking or cracking after a year, it’s fucking dangerous around fire, it offers no fucking insulation or protection, it’s shit.
I had a pair of boots that I used 9 months a year in Swedish climate for roughly 10 years without a hitch. They also went for hikes in Costa Rica and across India and Nepal. At the end they looked worn but were still functional as I swapped them out for another pair of vegan leather boots.
I’ve had other vegan shoes that lasted a lot shorter but that can be said about my animal skin shoes as well.
Modern bio-leather causes about 10% off the emissions leather does and doesn’t have the same tanning process which is extremely toxic.
Not saying that vegan is strictly better, but rumours of it’s crappiness are severely out of date.
Ive had it in my car for 7 years and zero flaking and feels great. Thats definitely specific to the quality you have.
I recall the term being pleather. Plastic leather.
Technically if they are organic matter compressed over eons into polycarbons, they’re still dinosaurs, so not vegan
Well a lot of it turns out to be dead trees not dinosaurs, but I’m sure I’ll get “um actually” but someone who is a bigger expert
Just because a movie is “based” on a book doesn’t mean the movie is made of paper.
Checkmate vegetables.
I thought the point of the stuff was to avoid killing animals.
Yes. Plastic is actually a great material for anything you don’t want to break down.
Yeah I’ve had it with Will’s Vegan Shoes. They use www.viridis-leather.it/faq.html and say it’s “bio-based leather” but if you go to the link:
Is it recycled, recyclable or biodegradable?
No, it’s not but it expresses its sustainable content because it’s mainly produced using by-products from corn and wheat instead of petrolium based products. Bio polyols always available as renewable resources.
as opposed to…dead cow skin?
It would be cruel to use the skin of a live cow.
As long as there is meat consumption there will be dead skin. I am open for all kind of alternatives but plastic none for me. Also real leather can be tanned in a bad way. So its a difficult topic in general.
Veg tanning is a thing too, growing in popularity and better for artisanal work.
Not if the meat is grown. But skin could also be grown, I think.
They don’t live long without skin.
I guess. Dead cow skin uses very little polyurethane
It’s almost as if another common term for vegan leather is PU Leather
But… Isn’t actual leather plant based?
Cow eats grass. Cow grows from eating grass. Cow ded. Make leather from cow.
From grass to cow to leather. Leather is made of grass. Leather is plant based.
Cause they know fools love buzzz words. That’s why I couldn’t find margarine until I realized it’s now “plant butter”
I think everything labeled “plant butter” is vegan, whereas “margarine” can contain both plant and animal fats. I don’t think that’s regulated, but I think that’s how those terms are used in practice. I always check the labels just to be sure, of course.
YSK: Cellulose can be made extremely durable and water resistent. The wallet I’ve been using for a decade now is made of cellulose. The stitching was kidna bad from the start, so I’ve had to repair it once. But the material itself is still holding stong. And it feels nice and is very grippy.
“TreeLeather” or something like that, was 1 brand of the cellulose “leather” stuff…
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Because it is made from plant based materials? Like some LEGO parts are nowadays made from plant based materials.
Plants -> Ethanol -> Plastic
Polyurethane is made by (among other steps) mixing paint thinner and phosgene gas. It’s a nasty dangerous process.
The only time plants are involved is when they mix in some fiber pulp at the end.
Plant based plastics exist, but they are not polyurethane.
I can’t stress enough how much heavy lifting the phrase “among other steps” is doing here.
Ah, OK. TIL.
I see the point of plant based leather not as necessarily being great now, but as demonstrating that there is demand for R & D to make a product that can meet or surpass the quality of leather later.
No hate, but leather and pb leather is gross to us idk how people like it. The texture is eugh
Look up where plastic comes from.
As a vegan I avoid this by not using things that look like leather. I prefer cotton and linen clothing.
Yeah, the simplest answer is to just skip the leather look rather than going with a bunch of plastic junk.
If you still want to, I would consider cork and waxed canvas to be reasonable options. Waxed canvas in particular is quite a durable material, so it can be a good choice for bags and jackets.
i was gonna say “what about pineapple leather” but yeah nope, it’s got PLA in it…
PLA is poly lactic acid, from corn.
Vegetan Bucky basicly a micro fiber
pastermil@sh.itjust.works 1 month ago
I guess petroleum came from plant.