“Yeah but science can be proven wrong an change over time, while my beliefs and biases are forever!”
Dunning-Kruger
Submitted 9 hours ago by fossilesque@lemmy.dbzer0.com to science_memes@mander.xyz
https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/pictrs/image/5331ef2a-131e-4e0e-94e7-3f56c0897076.webp
Comments
matlag@sh.itjust.works 1 hour ago
LanguageIsCool@lemmy.world 27 minutes ago
Bayesian updating converges, surprisingly, to that idiot’s belief system.
Blazingtransfem98@discuss.online 1 hour ago
I think a lot of these XX XY “only two genders” people aren’t just dunning Kruger, they’re transphobic idiots with an agenda. So even if they had the science and knowledge it wouldn’t matter because they’re pushing their hateful stupid agenda, facts and logic be damned. They don’t care, they just want to rationalize hating us trans people because we make them uncomfy.
LadyAutumn@lemmy.blahaj.zone 7 hours ago
Note how they always enshrine gender in biology, but then make all kinds of non-biological statements about what gender is.
“XX is woman”/“Large gametes is woman”/“can conceive is woman”
And then they’ll say
“Women aren’t as aggressive”, “women are more emotional”, “women like being in the home more”, “those are women’s clothes”, etc.
The only reason it’s so important for it to be biological is because of how it punishes gender non-conformity and makes the lives of trans people hell. Like it isn’t ideologically consistent and they know that. They just don’t care. If it was just about genitals or chromosomes, then why is it that gender dictates all these social things about us? The only reason to root it in how you were born is to ensure gender roles are as rigid and immutable as possible.
LH0ezVT@sh.itjust.works 5 hours ago
how it punishes
gendernon-conformityFit the mold or die. Always the same.
RowRowRowYourBot@sh.itjust.works 5 hours ago
Aren’t there more than two sexes in biology?
LadyAutumn@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 hour ago
Yes, there are many species that have more than 2 sexes. Those are decided by scientific consensus.
But sex is ultimately a category to describe the process of reproduction. By definition, this is exclusionary. It’s why conservatives fumble so much when trying to describe sex in terms of actual definitions. Inherently, it is not possible to fit every person into a table of 2 columns in that way. Sex is not a binary because human beings are not binary. There is an incredible amount of variation in our bodies.
Krik@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 hours ago
Relating to humans?
Yes but they are mutations (e. g. XXY, XXX, etc.) that often give rise to numerous biological problems or death.I don’t know if there are species that require more than two sexes to propagate. I never head of them.
RizzRustbolt@lemmy.world 3 hours ago
Depends on how you’re counting.
psoul@lemmy.world 3 hours ago
Can I get a T shirt that says “I have Dunning-Krueger and your Phd looks cute”? I just have a lot of BS to share and I don’t want to be sorry about it.
miraclerandy@lemmy.world 3 hours ago
Actually, the science says you will feel regret and will grow to resent that shirt over time. /s
RizzRustbolt@lemmy.world 3 hours ago
That’s because today’s t-shirts are made of such poor materials.
jol@discuss.tchncs.de 2 hours ago
But the economics says I should print them and make a fortune selling them to idiots. Hmm decisions, decisions.
Zzyzx@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 hours ago
You know how a bunch of villains are Dr. So-and-So? I bet it’s dealing with morons talking about your area of expertise that leads to one’s villain era.
Kolanaki@pawb.social 53 minutes ago
“That’s doctor Evil. I didn’t spend 8 years in evil medical school to be called mister, thank you very much.”
notgold@aussie.zone 3 hours ago
I was once the hero now I am the villain
alykanas@slrpnk.net 5 hours ago
How do you know if someone has a PhD.?
They tell you
TwistyLex@discuss.tchncs.de 9 minutes ago
Funny enough, my boss has a PhD in Evolutionary Biology. She never tells people because they start referring to her as Doctor, and she hates that. I don’t think I’ve actually ever heard her bring it up on her own.
papertowels@mander.xyz 2 hours ago
I mean yeah, if you spent 5 years of your life pushing the edge of human understanding on a subject, and a shithead tells you to do the science on your research subject, it’s relevant lol
SoleInvictus@lemmy.blahaj.zone 4 hours ago
I never tell people I have a PhD. It’s rude, plus I don’t have one.
ygajbm2sjcxbggbc0zfb@lemmy.world 3 hours ago
Tbf, they kinda earned the right to brag.
drtaco@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 hour ago
Sometimes they don’t tell you and just quietly update all of their usernames…
xthexder@l.sw0.com 1 hour ago
Do you by chance have a PhD in food science?
thevoidzero@lemmy.world 4 hours ago
Well you don’t know people with PhD that don’t tell you they have one
RizzRustbolt@lemmy.world 3 hours ago
An unknown-unknown?
dQw4w9WgXcQ@lemm.ee 4 hours ago
This is putting confirmation bias to the extreme.
Franklin@lemmy.ca 5 hours ago
True, but I do think it was warranted in this case.
AbnormalHumanBeing@lemmy.abnormalbeings.space 6 hours ago
While this is very funny, and definitely representative of a sort of ignorance/arrogance commonly found in ideologues - I recently learned that most people talking about the effect have, in fact, been Dunning-Krugering themselves.
Insightful video on the topic.
What most people expect the effect to look like:
ImageWhat the actual results were:
ImageTimewornTraveler@lemm.ee 57 minutes ago
Yeah, it’s really frustrating and quite ironic that pop culture keeps using this obscure scientific reference, that they don’t really understand in its intended context, to describe something that really ought be plainly said: that we all have a tendency to overinflate our competence. if anything Dunning-Krueger showed that only the most seasoned experts judge themselves modestly, and then we’d likely only find their modesty in that particular area of expertise. it’s a commentary on all of us!
But no, people name-drop this research just to dunk on people and feel smugly superior. (and I am glad I agree with the politics of the intellectual in the OP, that means it’s okay and I’m a bit more competent too!) ugh. I cringe every time i read someone say Dunning-Krueger.
anthropomorphized@lemmy.world 5 hours ago
Fig 1 is a modified emotional change curve applied in learning and business settings. The term “Valley of Despair” is used in both concepts, and it’s cool, memorable verbiage, but it shouldn’t imply relation between Dunning-Kreuger and the change curve
forfengdesigns.com/tips-on-clawing-your-way-out-o… Image
Image description: A modified emotional change curve from Evocon with Y-Axis being “attitude during change process” and X-Axis is time. There are 6 emotional phases described on this chart: 1. Neutral attitude, no knowledge; 2. Initial excitement, motivated; 3. Denial, indifferent, passive, apathy; 4. Resistance, frustration, doubt, anxiety (this phase falls below neutral and is described as “The Valley of Despair”); 5. Exploration, energized, small wins, creative; 6. Commitment, enthusiasm, problem solving, focus, team work.
Korhaka@sopuli.xyz 2 hours ago
While I know of the proper dunning-kruger effect chart, that still doesn’t help me out of the imposter syndrome valley of despair
rambling_lunatic@sh.itjust.works 3 hours ago
I’m a bit uninformed on this; it seems fascinating. Do these things happen due to something unusual during the growth of a fetus? What’s the name for this phenomenon?
dondelelcaro@lemmy.world 3 hours ago
There’s a bunch of them, but one more common example is Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome.
It’s also possible to have a non-functional SRY (XY but female), or to be XX with an SRY translocation (XX but male).
Biology is complicated: pretty much anyone who says it only happens one way or is really simple is wrong.
JackFrostNCola@lemmy.world 57 minutes ago
Moron here: Are XY females sterile or is it possible for them to pass on the Y, along with a male partner Y gene to give the baby YY genes? Or is this combination non-viable and wont develop?
RizzRustbolt@lemmy.world 3 hours ago
“Yeah… SRY, but sex and gender are not a binary.”
Voyajer@lemmy.world 7 hours ago
Wait until they learn about XXY, XYY, and XO individuals.
AtariDump@lemmy.world 7 hours ago
There hugs AND kisses people?
RizzRustbolt@lemmy.world 3 hours ago
We prefer “asexual” or “ace”.
joelfromaus@aussie.zone 5 hours ago
I swear I was learning about extra X and Y in high school 20 years ago and that studies (at the time) were showing correlation between different traits displayed by effected people. Just that alone shows incredible gender fluidity.
So where we are, 20 years later, you’d think we’d have a better understanding within society but instead somehow it’s literally regressed since then.
Djinn_Indigo@lemm.ee 3 hours ago
Honestly, it would be a pretty lame T-shirt.
OsrsNeedsF2P@lemmy.ml 8 hours ago
Can someone explain to me how some XX people become cis male?
match@pawb.social 8 hours ago
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XX_male_syndrome
tldr biology is dice rolls and humans are intersex for no reason sometimes
on a side note one of my friends had this and she only found out when she started transitioning. she is now a trans woman with XX chromosomes. i can only imagine how fucking vindicating it must have felt
Skullgrid@lemmy.world 8 hours ago
tldr biology is dice rolls and humans are intersex for no reason sometimes
To make involuntary non-cis , non-het , infertile aunts and uncles.
bleistift2@sopuli.xyz 6 hours ago
WTF is going on on that article’s Talk page? Are teachers now assigning students to edit Wikipedia articles and have others “peer review” them?
ragebutt@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 hours ago
De La Chappell syndrome, congenital adrenal hyperplasia, androgen exposure in utero, ovotesticular disorder of of sex development all result in a person with cis male characteristics and in some cases cis male typical genitalia despite having xx chromosomes
forrgott@lemm.ee 8 hours ago
Gene expression is not as straightforward as people think. All sorts of weird shit can happen, and that’s not even including gene mutations.
evasive_chimpanzee@lemmy.world 8 hours ago
…scientificamerican.com/…/Pitch_sketch_final.png?…
This is the best resource I’ve seen to show things relatively simply.
The TL;DR is that a whole “Y” chromosome isn’t exactly responsible for “maleness”, the SRY gene is. It’s normally on the Y chromosome, but mutations can occur placing that gene onto the X chromosome. Inversely, someone could inherit a Y chromosome without that gene, in which case they would develop with female traits.
It’s not considered trans because someone with 46XX plus the SRY gene would develop male genitalia, be identified as male at birth, and likely identify themselves as male. For some types of these conditions, there are plenty of people walking around with no clue that their chromosomes don’t match their gender.
Disclaimer: I’m not a geneticist, so i could have explained something along little off.
Lemminary@lemmy.world 1 hour ago
I’m also not a geneticist but I did study genetics for a while and that’s pretty much what I remember learning, so you’re good.
The books Mutants: On Genetic Variety and the Human Body by Armand Marie Leroi explains it all very well and touches on many other related genetic conditions like the Klinefelter syndrome (XXY). It’s an incredible read all around that really opened my eyes to how malleable biology is.
OmnipotentEntity@beehaw.org 8 hours ago
I googled it for you.
Didros@beehaw.org 8 hours ago
You’ve heard of xy people and xx people, but wait till you hear about X people!
Or xxx people, or xxy people, or… dies
gratux@lemmy.blahaj.zone 7 hours ago
cis just means your current gender identity is the same that was assigned to you at birth. there are cases where someone has XX chromosomes, but the body develops as male.
Lucky_777@lemmy.world 8 hours ago
Maybe she means the exceptions?
Exceptions: While XX and XY are the most common sex chromosome combinations, there are exceptions, such as individuals with variations in their sex chromosomes, such as XXY (Klinefelter syndrome) or XYY.
DrBob@lemmy.ca 8 hours ago
I can try. The cis part means the person’s naughty bits are aligned with their gender identity. The male is their gender identity. So post-bottom surgery it’s perfectly possible. If you use different definitions for concepts though you will have difficulty making it work.
None of this has anything to do with the claimed PhD in genomics though. These are socio-cultural concepts. So they should stick their PhD where it belongs and address the arguments head on instead of trying to argue from authority.
EldritchFeminity@lemmy.blahaj.zone 6 hours ago
I don’t have a PhD, but my understanding of the basics is this:
All people start out developing as female in the womb before a certain point where a large dose of testosterone caused (usually) by the Y chromosome activating (basically the only time in life that it does apart from starting puberty AFAIK) causes the proto-labia and vagina to push outwards and form the ball sack and enlarging the clitoris and urethra into what we know of as the penis. This is why you can see that line down the middle of your ball sack; that’s where your labia fused together. It’s also why the tissue that makes up your ball sack is biologically identical to the tissue that makes up the inside of the vagina. It’s an outie vs. an innie.
There are many reasons why this wouldn’t happen “correctly” since biology is more a wonder of things somehow working at all after evolution is done with them rather than a perfectly designed, well-oiled machine. Sometimes the Y chromosome simply doesn’t activate, or it does, but the person has androgen insensitivity and so the testosterone doesn’t do anything, or they develop as female but have testicles where their ovaries should be, rendering them infertile but otherwise a perfectly normal woman. Sometimes a person is XX, but they experienced a higher than normal amount of testosterone during development and developed male instead of female.
And that’s before you get into the issue of intersex people, who are often surgically altered as babies when they’re born by the doctor to match with the genitalia that the doctor thinks should be the “correct” one. In a number of places, the doctors don’t have to ask permission or even tell the parents after.
Also, your definition of cis male is slightly off. “Cis” is the opposite Latin prefix of “trans,” meaning a non-changing/stable state of being, and in this case it’s used to mean that one’s gender identity matches up with the one that you were given at birth. It ultimately has nothing to do with what genitalia you have, and it’s simply an identification saying that your sense of gender matches up with the sex that the doctor declared and that you therefore aren’t trans. It’s an after the fact solution to the question of what to call people who aren’t trans and comes from the use of trans to identify somebody who transitions from one gender to another.
puttputt@beehaw.org 5 hours ago
I think you’re misunderstanding the point the OP is making. Typically, male/female are used when referring to sex, and masculine/feminine and man/woman are used when referring to gender. So this conversation isn’t about gender identity at all, but completely about biological sex.
There are a bunch of factors that go into determining sex. The two main categories are related to the person’s genes (their genotype) and how the person physically presents (phenotype). The biggest genetic marker is whether the person has XX or XY chromosomes (or some other combination). The easiest marker for phenotype is the person’s genitalia, but there are others, such as gonads, gamete production, hormones, etc.
So even just talking about biological sex, a person’s genotype and phenotype might give conflicting determinations of sex. So an “XX male” refers to someone with the genotype of a female, but the phenotype of a male, but says nothing about their gender identity or any surgeries they might’ve undergone.
With that in mind, someone with a PhD in genomics seems to be in the right field to address gene expression and genotypes vs phenotypes. Although you’re right that we shouldn’t rely on authority, but instead on the arguments presented. What we’ve been shown here, though, isn’t a fully fleshed out debate. It’s about 60 words on social media that amounts to “your mental model of sex is wrong; here are cases to rebut it”
Binette@lemmy.ml 8 hours ago
Outward, their genitals might look like those of the oposite sex.
4oreman@lemy.lol 9 hours ago
grammar is not science
aeronmelon@lemmy.world 8 hours ago
It may as well be astrophysics for some people.
Acinonyx@lemmy.sdf.org 7 hours ago
you just know that 75% of people who would wear this don’t really have a PhD and 90% of those don’t have a PhD in the right field
IDKWhatUsernametoPutHereLolol@lemmy.dbzer0.com 7 minutes ago
To be fair, a Person with a PhD still can have Dunning-Kruger on other subjects.
Ben Carson is a great Neurosurgeon, but dumbass on politics.