papertowels
@papertowels@mander.xyz
- Comment on Anon lives on a budget 2 weeks ago:
I may as well call you fixating on the promotional pricing nit a redirection from you being unable to admit you were wrong about what the average cost of cellular and Internet in the US is.
It was an edit, so understandable that you missed it, but I did add to my last comment that fwiw I did agree with you that we should also look at averages.
Yes, their promotion is to discount their introductory rate by the cost of a phone line when you sign up for a phone line too. It still has no bearing on what typical Internet prices are, which was what the person was asking in the first place.
Let’s play a game. Can you tell me what their non-promotional rate for internet is? If it’s within the $40-$50 range I provided, you’ll owe me a dollar?
So here are my thoughts on averages - the article you linked arrived at its number by looking at the average price of plans offered. IMO that doesn’t capture “affordability”, because it doesn’t make sense that adding Kanye Wests new ISP offering a 5gbps gold-plated modem equipment rental tier for $2k/month should impact “affordability”. What would really be helpful is the the average, most affordable internet plans offered around the nation. I couldn’t find that, though as a close second I did find surveys suggesting that the average American pays $89, which blows my mind.
That got me thinking, what does the average American pay for cell phone service? Most reporting I found covers what the average bill is, which ignores number of lines - a crucial statistic. However, this article refers to a JD power report saying the average cell bill is $144. Hard to contextualize this without knowing how many lines that sum represents.
Earlier, you asked if I think the vast majority of Americans are picking more expensive choices for no reason. I actually do - and I have two pieces of evidence for this.
- The average price paid for internet ($89, according to the study I linked) is higher than the average cost of internet plans offered ($60s-70, I think, based on the article you linked). This suggests that the average American is heavy on consumption and makes the choice to go with the more expensive plans even though cheaper plans are offered.
- This second point is, to me, the most telling data point. In the cell phone service article, we were unsure about how many lines the average of $144 represented. However in the same breath. JD power also said that by switching to an MVNO, the average bill was halved - going down to $77, presumably a study done under the same conditions as their previous, name-brand carrier study. Here we have clear insight. The name-brand carriers and MVNOs have exactly the same availability - MVNOs literally run on the same networks. In theory there’s some issues like you might get deprioritized if there’s a lot of network traffic, but that rarely happens. I’m going to suggest that MVNOs offer basically equivalent service to the brand name carriers. If they do, then why are Americans paying double for the brand-name carriers? I’d suggest it generally falls down to incumbent advantage. People not doing their homework on what carrier to use, or not wanting to make the switch due to potential hassle.
So yeah, I think people do pay more than they could, for no reason. So while the average costs might be high, that is at least partially due to overconsumption or market inefficiencies, and not necessarily due to lack of affordability. This is why when answering someone asking about affordability, it’s good to share cheap, nationwide plans in addition to the average costs for said items.
- Comment on Anon lives on a budget 3 weeks ago:
In a big fan of a budgeting software called “budget with buckets”.
It’s the same envelope/bucket budgeting method as YNAB, except it only runs on your machine so you have greater privacy. It comes with an unlimited, untimed free trial, since it often can take months to decide if a budgeting software works for you. I used it for months without paying. If you do pay. It’s a one-time payment.
It supports account syncing for a pittance - I think it was $15/year.
- Comment on Anon lives on a budget 3 weeks ago:
Until I hear anything different from you, I’m just going to assume that comment already made the point you’re trying to make.
Given how much you’ve brought to the table for this conversation that seems to be a generous assumption.
Have a good day!
- Comment on Anyone in tech confirm? 3 weeks ago:
If I had to start over I’d probably start with a plumbers apprenticeship. I like the work, and there’s something to be said about having “completed” a job at the end of a day that you don’t really get even if you close a feature.
- Comment on Anon lives on a budget 3 weeks ago:
I’m getting hung up on it because you opened with copy/pasting all of the terms and conditions, and vaguely hand waivey implied that meant I was relying on a promotional rate to make my point. I stated it wasn’t a promotional rate multiple times, but nothing seemed to stick. Now that I hopefully made it crystal clear, you’re just redirecting.
To be frank, I have better things to do than to get into an internet argument with someone who refuses to acknowledge if they were wrong. Behavior like that, coupled with petty things like down voting all replies suggests someone doesn’t actually want to have a conversation, but instead just wants to megaphone their opinions. Which category do you want to be in? Because if it’s the latter, once again, it’s not worth my time. If it’s the former, we can talk about the nuances between average prices of offered plans vs average prices paid by consumers.
- Comment on Anon lives on a budget 3 weeks ago:
I’m going to guess that this comment beat you to the punch?
So yeah, if you’re being scheduled for irregular shifts it’s not going to work out.
- Comment on Anon lives on a budget 3 weeks ago:
Out of curiosity, what does Verizon get you that visible doesn’t? Visible plans are unlimited with mobile hotspot
- Comment on Anon lives on a budget 3 weeks ago:
Yeah that’s fair. When I was working multiple jobs I was lucky enough that none of them demanded full time availability.
- Comment on Anon lives on a budget 3 weeks ago:
Damn, lack of choice sucks. Have you looked into visible wireless? They’re a Verizon mvno, so it might work for you?
- Comment on Anon lives on a budget 3 weeks ago:
Don’t feel great dropping personal info online just to prove a point. I’ve had 3 concurrent part time jobs in the past, but one was tapering one off, so it was only 3 jobs for a few months, rest was 2 jobs. I was lucky that I had a regular schedule for all of them so I could make it work.
I mean, yeah it sucked, but so does only being broke and I wanted out of it.
- Comment on Anon lives on a budget 3 weeks ago:
I’m laying out what I think are reasonable options that folks would want. Unlimited cell phone data for $30 paired with a steady, low latency cable line for $50 seems to be a combination that most folks could use.
It’s definitely not optimized for saving money. You could save a lot of money if you wanted to focus on that. Helium mobile has a free 3gb/month plan, no credit card needed. For home Internet you’d be at the mercy of your local ISPs, but I’m sure there are more affordable plans that could be picked.
- Comment on Anon lives on a budget 3 weeks ago:
To add onto this, there are MVNOs for basically every carrier.
Visible uses verizon, and their cheapest plan is $25/month, taxes and fees included. There’s currently a promo that brings it down to $19/month for 26 months.
Mint and metro uses tmobile. Metro offers unlimited at $25.
Cricket uses at&t, they also have unlimited phone plans in the $25-35 range.
- Comment on Anon lives on a budget 3 weeks ago:
You said $115 is on the pricier side and linked to promotional offers to show that a cheaper option exists in some contexts.
I’ve said this three times now. $40 for Internet was not a promotional rate.
Please read the terms and conditions you yourself shared. You’ll notice they mention internet AND a voice line.
So yes, $40 for both is a promotional rate.
But $40/month for the Internet is their standard rate.
I don’t think we can proceed until we agree on this.
Did you know that if your Internet bill is $60, and your phone bill is $55, that you now have monthly costs for phone and Internet of … $115?
I linked 3 separate MVNOs across multiple carriers with nationwide coverage that have unlimited plans at $30.
If you’re paying a $55 phone bill it’s your choice to do so, there are far more affordable options.
- Comment on Anon lives on a budget 3 weeks ago:
It’s directly applicable when you say cheaper options are available and then link to a promotional offer where the pricing expires.
Just to make sure we’re on the same page.
I said you can get Internet for $40-$50.
I linked a provider which provides a non-promotional rate of $40/month for Internet.
As a promotion, they’re throwing in a cellular line for free. This expires.
Does this somehow invalidate my claim of you can get Internet for $40-$50?
Please read the rest of the comment I previously made where I linked to some actual averages for cost, because again: a lower cost existing isn’t the same as the average cost being low.
Sure - the average, non-promotional rate of $60 is still cheaper than what this post implies.
If we’re being real, in many markets (hello Xfinity/comcast) you’re oftentimes expected to be on a promotional rate more often than not. When I was living by myself, I could call Xfinity and ask for a promotional rate, and be told that I’d be eligible in x months, usually 2-4. If you live with others, you can swap who the Internet is under each year to always be getting a promotional rate.
- Comment on Anon lives on a budget 3 weeks ago:
My impression from the rest of the thread is that his current employer is the one that wants to avoid Obamacare.
So if he just finds a second job with another employer, he can at least be earning more money, instead of being called at 25 at his current one. And since he already is able to sustain himself on the first job, the 15 hours of working can significantly boost his savings from ~$100/month to 4 weeks *15 hours per week * 7.25 (fed min wage) ~$500/month. Doesn’t solve all problems, but just finding a full 40 hours of work significantly improves his financial outlook.
- Comment on Anon lives on a budget 3 weeks ago:
So the $40/month at mint isn’t a promotional rate, and the $50/month price at Xfinity says it’s good for 5 years.
I mean you can pick alternatives that do describe exactly what you’re talking about, but I feel the examples I provided are valid, sustainable prices for Internet.
- Comment on Anon lives on a budget 3 weeks ago:
My “gotcha” was the bit I said right after the fine print: not as cheap as advertised in the long run
It’s…it’s a promotion. I didn’t even mention it in my post, where I said internet can typically be had for $40-$50.
After the promotion, the Internet still stays the same price, it’s the free voice line that you don’t get.
I don’t think it’s much of a gotcha worth flourishing the terms and conditions over, but…sure, you’ve pointed out that additional discounts that were never factored into my initial comment expire.
- Comment on Anon lives on a budget 3 weeks ago:
Do you know if they get a second part time job and still qualify for Obamacare? If they can subsist on 25 hours a week, then adding another 15 would really help with savings.
- Comment on Anon lives on a budget 3 weeks ago:
Oh wow, what companies do you use?
- Comment on Anon lives on a budget 3 weeks ago:
I appreciate you quoting all of the fine print, what is the actual gotcha you’re taking away from it?
Regardless, when the thing being said is “wages are crap, things are expensive, people are trapped and can’t afford a future”
I understand that’s the point of the overall post, but I’m answering a question asking if internet and cell service is really that expensive in the US.
It’s doing a disservice to pretend like it is when there are much more affordable alternatives. Not only is the typical market price cheaper than what is mentioned in the post, but if you’re on many government aid programs, you qualify for subsidized phone and internet. Pairing the two seemingly adds up to $25/month.
- Comment on Anon lives on a budget 3 weeks ago:
- Comment on dating profile 1 month ago:
It’s a special treat. You know how some folks get shit faced and call that a good time? Lactose intolerant people face shit and call it a great time.
- Comment on Landlords are parasites 2 months ago:
Agree. We have a few housing coops in town and I recommend them to everyone I know.
- Comment on Landlords are parasites 2 months ago:
That’s all well and good, but how likely is that to actually happen?
The original commenters point was that corporate landlords are driven only by profit as they buy up rental property everywhere. Even preventing that is highly unlikely, if we’re being honest, but it is far more likely to happen than all rented houses being forcibly turned to rent to own contracts.
We all want the same thing, but there’s a tradeoff between grandiose ideals and feasibility. It does not seem wrong to support pushes for less radical but more realistic methods of improving housing if your goal is to improve housing.
- Comment on Landlords are parasites 2 months ago:
Worker owned coops equivalent for housing is a housing coop complex, which I believe is the most sustainable model of housing.
However, I’m not sure how that would apply to single detached houses.
- Comment on Landlords are parasites 2 months ago:
both of them see reduced profits when minimum wages are increased
But one doesn’t have to act in the shareholders best interest.
My friends are renting in an apt from a mom and pop landlord who hasn’t raised the price in years - they roughly play half of what market price is at this point.
So sure, the direction of Mom and pop landlords interests may be the same as a corporate landlords, but that are under much less pressure to leverage that.
- Comment on Jesus hates American "Christians" 2 months ago:
Are you just randomly hitting an edgy opinionated atheist soundboard over there lol.
Say the line, Bart!
- Comment on Jesus hates American "Christians" 2 months ago:
Right, let’s take Christ out of the discussions of Christ-ianity.
- Comment on Framework under fire for Omarchy/DHH/Hyprland support? 2 months ago:
- Comment on What's your test for people? 3 months ago:
Sometimes I just take a bite out of the entire kit kat bar without breaking it up.