If you think about this for any length of time and actually imagine this scenario, you realise you don’t pull the lever and it’s not even close.
The Prisoner's Trolley Problemma
Submitted 20 hours ago by m_f@midwest.social to [deleted]
https://midwest.social/pictrs/image/0e5a4d4a-c509-483e-931e-a27797ebca03.jpeg
Comments
somewhathinged@lemm.ee 1 hour ago
RizzRustbolt@lemmy.world 2 hours ago
Have these folks seen The Good Place? Or are they just approaching the same conclusion by accident?
solstice@lemmy.world 1 hour ago
By far the smartest show ever written and it’s not even close!
bananabenana@lemmy.world 52 minutes ago
Lmao what. Sure it covers philosophy 101, but not as smart as say, Dark, Mr Robot, Better Call Saul, Watchmen etc.
Crankenstein@lemmy.world 1 hour ago
Idk … Andor has a really good message.
tetris11@lemmy.world 1 hour ago
MystikIncarnate@lemmy.ca 2 hours ago
The meaning behind the trolly problem has been entirely eroded at this point.
Fedizen@lemmy.world 3 hours ago
mercifully pulling both levers.
samus12345@lemmy.world 47 minutes ago
m0darn@lemmy.ca 3 hours ago
I think these scenarios might be easier to analyze if we made them a bit more realistic.
Like isn’t this an analogy for military intervention? If we empower our military to be proactive, we can save one “good guy” ^^Tm by killing 3 “worthless foreigners”. But if NATO’s adversaries are participating too we lose 3 of our “good guy” ^^Tm.
OneWomanCreamTeam@sh.itjust.works 1 hour ago
I think the abstract nature is one of the strengths. If you ask someone a question about military intervention, their pre-existing views towards military intervention will heavily bias their answer.
Fedizen@lemmy.world 1 hour ago
its also a good metaphor for climate change
Dagwood222@lemm.ee 3 hours ago
Look at the actual Cuban Missile Crisis.
a_wild_mimic_appears@lemmy.dbzer0.com 9 hours ago
for the longest time, i did know that game theory did not have anything to do with “games” and that it is somehow connected to the prisoners dilemma, but the concept as such wasn’t very clear to me. If you are like my former me, take 30 minutes out of your day and visit ncase.me/trust/ to learn and play around with game theory; it’s a great webpage and it’s pretty good fun all around.
solstice@lemmy.world 1 hour ago
I did a few game theory simulations in college and they were always real interesting. In one of them for example, it was a multiplayer game, with multiple interactions. I think it was to simulate global trade basically: you could cooperate with as many players as you want and each time you cooperate you both get a point. If you defect then you get two and they get none. However, all the players could see what the other players are doing, so if you defected they would know and probably would play (trade) with you. The best way to win was to form as many connections as possible and fully cooperate the whole time.
I formed maybe like 20-30 connections with other players and didn’t defect. Each point was worth a few cents or something. So I walked out with a check for like $20-$50 or something. Many players walked out with nothing because they cheated too many people too many times and nobody wanted to trade with them.
Therefore, clearly, the best economic policy is protectionism, tariffs, trade wars, and fucking over both allies and enemies, right? Right?!?
batshit@lemmings.world 2 hours ago
zergtoshi@lemmy.world 2 hours ago
Thank you for sharing the link. That webpage is amazing!
NevermindNoMind@lemmy.world 5 hours ago
That page is very well done and interesting, thanks for sharing!
chtk@feddit.nl 17 hours ago
wow what an excellent day in the neighbourhood i sure hope I won’t be faced with an ethical dilemma in the very near future oh rats it’s the trolley problem
UmeU@lemmy.world 15 hours ago
This was super funny, this person has a great career ahead of her. Very Tim and Eric style obscure indie comedy, I loved it.
smiletolerantly@awful.systems 14 hours ago
This isn’t philosophy anymore, it’s just game theory
problematicPanther@lemmy.world 12 hours ago
it’s interdisciplinary.
Maggoty@lemmy.world 2 hours ago
Not even. Game Theory is supposed to take a lot of stuff into account. Boiling it down to this is insulting and a way to paint situations like proxy wars as immoral.
Gonzako@lemmy.world 12 hours ago
por qué no los dos
elidoz@lemmy.ml 10 hours ago
holy prisoner dilemma
Grandwolf319@sh.itjust.works 19 hours ago
This feels too high quality for a shit post.
SmackemWittadic@lemmy.world 17 hours ago
Gotta make sure your fiber intake is decent so you get good quality shit like this
wabafee@lemmy.world 13 hours ago
Do nothing that way you don’t get to jail for murder. All the pressure goes to the other guy.
grrgyle@slrpnk.net 8 hours ago
I feel like you’re not internalizing that this is a thought experiment.
Maggoty@lemmy.world 2 hours ago
This is the dumbest thought experiment I’ve ever seen.
fl42v@lemmy.ml 9 hours ago
Also, it’s too late to pull the lever, you’ll just provoke a crush.
samus12345@lemmy.world 45 minutes ago
They’ve already both chosen not to pull the lever at this point. Guess they didn’t want to make a wider picture.
Saledovil@sh.itjust.works 15 hours ago
Unlike the classic prisoners dilemma, this isn’t a nash equilibrium. When I know that the other person pulls their switch, I’d improve my outcome by not pulling mine. Compare to the prisoners dilemma, where not snitching when the other side snitches earns you five years in prison.
AnAustralianPhotographer@lemmy.world 9 hours ago
Theoretically, will a collision cause a breach of the radioactive material that’s in the box with my cat? Asking for a friend.
bitwaba@lemmy.world 1 hour ago
Yes and no.
tetris11@lemmy.world 1 hour ago
If cat can witness the event, then Yes or No but not both.
_bcron@midwest.social 10 hours ago
The outcome from both levers pulled is so steep that it really makes no sense to pull the lever
owsei@programming.dev 9 hours ago
That’s why they won’t pull the lever, and that’s why you should.
Emerald@lemmy.world 2 hours ago
Not really, this would all happen so fast and be emotionally, not logically driven.
_bcron@midwest.social 7 hours ago
They’ll be thinking the same thing tho and if there is a greater than 20% chance of them pulling the lever it’d be worse in terms of losing family members than not pulling at all.
But in terms of overall death, not pulling the lever is 1 or 4, and pulling the lever is 4 or 13
holycrap@lemm.ee 19 hours ago
Which relative is on the track and which in the trolley?
TheBat@lemmy.world 16 hours ago
Your hot cousin is on the track. What would you do.
voracitude@lemmy.world 16 hours ago
Don’t pull the lever, then there’s three thirds of hot cousin to go around regardless of the other person’s decision. Philosophy is easy.
ericbomb@lemmy.world 16 hours ago
It says loved ones I’m afraid, can’t sacrifice one in prison I’m afraid.
TheReturnOfPEB@reddthat.com 7 hours ago
The last line of these is always what the poster wants to happen
everything else is they fucked up rational to make you think it is funny
this is anti-intellectual propaganda
ameancow@lemmy.world 2 hours ago
I think most of these have just become self-satire and clever attempts to come up with increasingly convoluted ethical choices.
It’s not anti-intellectualism, it’s anti-trolly-problem specifically.
bitwaba@lemmy.world 1 hour ago
My favorite version is:
A trolley is approaching a junction and you have the ability to leave the switch where it is, sending the trolley into an innocent person tied to the tracks, or pull the lever sending the trolley down the tracks to someone else that is now faced with the same trolley problem.
antiykns@thelemmy.club 9 hours ago
And that’s why you should vote kamla.
rational_lib@lemmy.world 16 hours ago
Yell to the guy on the other side that I’m going to pull the lever, so he’d better not.
Then let it go because that both maximizes global utility and poses the lowest risk of the worst case scenario.
IDKWhatUsernametoPutHereLolol@lemmy.dbzer0.com 13 hours ago
“WHAT? I CANT HEAR YOU THE TRAIN IS TOO LOUD!” pulls lever
tetris11@lemmy.world 1 hour ago
OOOHHHHH
WHO LIVES IN A PINEAPPLE UNDER THE SEA
IDKWhatUsernametoPutHereLolol@lemmy.dbzer0.com 19 hours ago
You pull the lever, then pew pew pew the other person near the lever.
Boom.
Did I solve it?
Where’s my prize?
Wait a minute, gotta shoot everyone else related too. Don’t want to face any revenge.
Automatic Weaponry goes brrrr
No witnesses
Okay I saved 1 of my loved ones.
Bingo?
Now theres only one color of people.
Wait am I a racist?
UmeU@lemmy.world 15 hours ago
To quote something I made up and say all the time, “It is possible to commit no mistakes and still lose.”
pyre@lemmy.world 15 hours ago
nice. with such wisdom you should have been a captain or something.
Peppycito@sh.itjust.works 8 hours ago
I say “you can do this three different ways and still be wrong.”
UndercoverUlrikHD@programming.dev 17 hours ago
Sounds like your typical game theory problem.
Not pulling the lever: Worst case: Your loved ones dies Best case: None
Pulling the lever: Worst case: Your loved ones dies Best case: Your loved ones survives
webghost0101@sopuli.xyz 16 hours ago
Worst case for pulling the level is 5 loved ones die and and so do 8 strangers.
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world 15 hours ago
nah you forgot my solution of also lying down on the track and daring the trolley to switch the track itself
UndercoverUlrikHD@programming.dev 16 hours ago
I guess I didn’t read the problem properly.
vga@sopuli.xyz 14 hours ago
[deleted]groet@feddit.org 14 hours ago
That unfortunately means you have to shoot a lot of people. Trolley problems are everywhere. They just arent as obvios as pulling a lever. But your political and consumer behaviour are full of trolley problems.
So you can either pull the trigger and shoot a lot of people, which will make you a murderer, or, if you dont, through your inactions, a lot of other people will have to suffer through hidden trolley problems. Your choice.
5wim@slrpnk.net 14 hours ago
Why open carry and telegraph your capabilities? Just shoot them from a concealed carry position. Maybe you just learned the term and wanted to use it in a sentence.
aviationeast@lemmy.world 20 hours ago
Questions: why doesn’t the person at the switch run and get the person off the tracks? And the people on the trolley hop off or try to the sslow the trolley?
VivianTg@lemmynsfw.com 19 hours ago
They are tied to their chair with the only thing they can do being flipping the lever. It is the prisoner’s trolley problem
SapphironZA@sh.itjust.works 15 hours ago
For some people, this is a problem. For others, this is a solution.
Shardikprime@lemmy.world 15 hours ago
According to transit and transport regulation, such scenario would be impossible
db2@lemmy.world 20 hours ago
Nuke it from orbit.
finitebanjo@lemmy.world 19 hours ago
I think the premise falls apart on the assumption that I consider pulling the lever as best case.
anonymouse2@sh.itjust.works 19 hours ago
Throw the trolley off the side of the ferry.
workerONE@lemmy.world 20 hours ago
I would tie a really really long string to the lever and attach the string to a large bird and then scare it into flying away. Then I would go to Albertsons and buy some delicious Heinz Baked Beans
pyrflie@lemm.ee 16 hours ago
PULL THE LEVER KRONK!!!
DrDeadCrash@programming.dev 15 minutes ago
Yell “Jump!”