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We're all a little crazy

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Submitted ⁨⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago⁩ by ⁨fossilesque@mander.xyz⁩ to ⁨science_memes@mander.xyz⁩

https://mander.xyz/pictrs/image/5adc8c09-903c-4cd0-9ce9-23773c991bac.jpeg

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  • Kyrgizion@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    I posit that the human mind is made up of dozens, or perhaps even hundreds/thousands “smaller agents” that work together to create consciousness as an emergent property of the whole, which makes it impossible to isolate and say “this, THIS right here IS concsciousness”. That does not mean each of those has their own personality, per sé.

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    • carl_dungeon@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      …wikipedia.org/…/The_Man_Who_Mistook_His_Wife_for… is a fantastic exploration of this idea, focusing on people who have lost specific parts of their brains due to tumors or strokes. The human mind is very much like a complex modern website- take Amazon for example, if everything is working, it’s the website where you buy stuff, but if certain specific systems are offline, you lose specific features, like your order history, or your cart, or your recommended products, etc… Missing one or two of of those components diminishes the site somewhat, but it’s still more or less Amazon. Your brain works the same way!

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      • jballs@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        Stupid brain running micro-services.

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    • Raxiel@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      And the underlying animal is still there too. It’s fully in control at birth, and gets drowned out as we mature (for some people, less than others).
      Small children are little more than animals, which is why they’re so unreasonable.
      It’s my belief that the reason the written word or things like clocks are usually unreadable in dreams, is because the animal is both illiterate and innumerate. Dreams are the animals understanding of our waking experience. It knows these patterns are important and how they relate to other things, but it has no fucking idea what any of it actually means.

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      • Spiritreader@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        I do find myself reading and writing words in dreams quite a lot. I’ve never seen a clock though, not as far as I can remember.

        But sometimes I can even remember signs with street names or banners / short paragraphs.

        Dynamic lighting sadly doesn’t work tho. Light switches do nothing. For example if I turn on the lights in my bathroom in a dream, I can even hear the bathroom fan turn on, but the room remains dark.

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    • PerogiBoi@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      I posit this as well. I’m made up of at least 5 or 6 different versions of me with different biases and personalities. There’s a negative narcissistic version, there’s a happy go lucky version, a pragmatic version, a nihilist with a dark sense of humour, a soppy emotional one, and others and they all fight constantly to have their say. I thought everyone was like this 🤪

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      • multifariace@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        I’m all alone. Which is likely why I crave social activities.

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      • Pan_Ziemniak@midwest.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        Plurality is a thing…

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    • Wirlocke@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      You would like Global Workspace Theory, basically says your consciousness is the result of components of the brain broadcasting their information to the whole.

      I also like Integrated Information Theory which measures the conscious experience of a system by how integrated it is, which means that you can’t reduce the system to the sum of it’s parts without losing the emergent properties.

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      • Kyrgizion@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        Thanks for the links, very interesting indeed!

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    • Deceptichum@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      So if I run enough different AI LLM models and let them communicate, I can create consciousness?

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      • MotoAsh@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        No, because LLMs are just a mathematical blender with ONE goal in mind: construct a good sentence. They have no thoughts, they have no corrective motion, they just spit out sentences.

        You MIGHT get to passing a Turing test with enough feedback tied in, but then the “conciousness” is specifically coming from the systemic complexity at that point and still very much not the LLMs.

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      • thesporkeffect@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        If you gave them all access to real world, realtime sensor data… Over an extended period of time…hmm

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    • KillingAndKindess@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Yeah, and come to think of it, I bet you that each one has its own characteristics. Perhaps they may be full blown individuals themeselves from another time and place, and I too will one day join them…

      Brb gonna go sailing…

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    • nifty@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      No there’s no need to posit cutesy sounding things, that’s how misinformation starts :) If you have any sources or can cite you’ve read which may point to it, that’s cool though

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      • Buddahriffic@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        No, people are allowed to speculate and throw out ideas they have without needing some “expert” or paper to back up what they are saying. The mistake is treating such as if it’s a fact. Sure, there’s always going to be idiots out there that will take ideas like that and run with them, but I reject the idea that we should censor those speculations and random thoughts because idiots might believe them.

        The real problem are the con artists who work those idiots up into a frenzy of fear and distrust by deliberately presenting shit they can’t back up as a fact and threat to drive donations or sell snake oil to “protect” from it.

        And I’d say even shit like what you said does more harm than good because it can drive those who enjoy harmless speculation but lack the confidence to push back towards the fringes because they think the mainstream wants to tell them how to think.

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    • HawlSera@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      That can’t be because I clearly exist and cannot differentiate between these “smaller agents”, I am either so perfectly unified that I cannot tell, or this emergentism is bullshit

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  • DumbAceDragon@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Inside you there are two wolves

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    • Evil_Shrubbery@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Both gay & both loud af, at the same time.

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      • Ultragigagigantic@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        Want some get some

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    • RavenFellBlade@startrek.website ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Sorry about that transporter malfunction.

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    • Ultragigagigantic@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Image

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    • Skymt@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      And they were delicious

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  • PhlubbaDubba@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    IIRC the “other consciousness” is the internal monologue or internal visualization you experience when thinking

    There’s a potentially related theory too that the origin of religion is internal narrator thinkers having perceived the internal narrator as a second entity who was issuing them commands and beliefs rather than their own internal dialogue.

    These people would claim to be “prophets” and basically evangelize whatever presence they ascribed responsibility for the internal narrator to. Leading to more people believing their internal narrators are also these divine forces speaking to them.

    Not to dunk on rural americans, but a phenomena like this could also explain the recent evangelical movement in the US considering how much emphasis is placed on the personal relationship and communication with God, these people might actually just not realize their own thoughts and ascribe all thought process as the voice of the big man himself.

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    • Stonewyvvern@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Lived in SE USA most of my life…the majority of the most ridiculous fundamentalists don’t have an inner monologue. They speak but there is nothing going on upstairs except life processes.

      The way they cling to ideas from others explains why they cling so tightly…they never had one of their own.

      Because of this phenomenal outlook they typically adhere to the first idea that comes around and dismiss everything else as false.

      Critical thinking is not applicable to everyone.

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      • root_beer@midwest.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        Absence of an inner monologue does not mean that there is no thought process. I’ve done just fine without one myself.

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    • Umbrias@beehaw.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      *origin of prophets as they are understood today

      The first religions were generally flavors of animism.

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    • PiJiNWiNg@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Makes you wonder what happens to a person who now accepts the voices in their head as divine mandate…

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    • Fungah@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      I read… Something once and they suggested the past we may have collectively possessed a more direct relationship with rekigi9n like you’re talking about. That for some reason or another we don’t tend to “hear the voice of hod” like we once did. Out relationship with our internal self had changed. Maybe it was bred out by our tendency to kill the religious folks who disagree the most with whatever the dumpster jour religion at the time is.

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    • HawlSera@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Makes sense, in a lot of spiritual practices I’ve been involved in, hearing such a voice is believed to be a higher power.

      Unless you mean thoughts themselves, and not something similar but deeper…

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      • PhlubbaDubba@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        I mean that for a lot of these people thought and that higher power are one in the same.

        They believe God is a speaker who instructs them via their inner dialogue, or for seers, by “visions” which could be better identified as a similar phenomenon but involving visual thought rather than inner dialogue thought.

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  • nehal3m@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    My speaking consciousness says there isn’t.

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    • ignotum@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      My non-verbal consciousness says

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  • Emmie@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    I will always held belief that we are part of the spiritual greater universe and our brains are antennas. At the same time I won’t allow this belief to interfere with my daily logic and scientific pursuits.

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    • Fungah@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      I, too, did a heroic dose of mushrooms once

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    • s_s@lemmy.one ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      There is the idea that it’d be easier for the universe to spontaneously create a single consciousness that knows and experiences everything and thinks they are you rather than creating a big bang that naturally leads to beings with consciences such as you.

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      • MonkderDritte@feddit.de ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        That’s nonsense. Why would that be easier?

        And physics tend to reduce energy state (contrary to biology), not make things easier.

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      • mac@infosec.pub ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        Yeah I read a theory like that, something along the lines of you could not actually have existed until .3s ago but you were created with all of your current memories and experiences

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      • K0W4LSK1@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        That is such a weird way of putting it I believe its more the single consciousness wants to like experience because knowing everything is like pointless so it fragmentes into these piece of its conscienceness and we populate the universe experiencing. Maybe different theories but also not my theory lol

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    • Ultragigagigantic@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      The vibe when you pay monthly tribute to your landed lord. 👌

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    • HawlSera@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Ah the Soul Antenna theory, yyes I hope that’s valid

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  • 01101000_01101001@mander.xyz ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    I’m aware of my other consciousness. She’s cool. I try to be more like her.

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    • Omgboom@lemmy.zip ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      I wish mine would stop giving me intrusive thoughts

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      • KeenFlame@feddit.nu ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        Done, they can’t do that anymore. Anything else I can do for you today?

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    • fossilesque@mander.xyz ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      I call it my customer service face.

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    • DaddleDew@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      I’m pretty sure mine hates me and makes me so stupid stuff whenever I’m distracted.

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  • DaMonsterKnees@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Only the Baron Harkonnen speaks in my head, so hah!

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    • Aganim@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Kill the Abomination!

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      • DaMonsterKnees@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        I love the way that’s said in the audiobook. Cheers!

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    • xpinchx@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Fear is the mind killer.

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  • hemko@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    You’re not gonna give us a source?

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    • fossilesque@mander.xyz ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual_consciousness

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      • smeg@feddit.uk ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        It is proposed that it is possible that a person may develop two separate conscious entities within their one brain after undergoing a corpus callosotomy.

        So unless you’ve had your brain cut in half to treat your epilepsy then you’re probably alright

        No conclusive evidence of the proposed phenomenon has been discovered.

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  • ExtraMedicated@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    So that’s why my constant inner-monologue is verbose and meaningful, but I can’t communicate for shit?

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    • gallopingsnail@lemmy.sdf.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Nah, that’s just anxiety my dude.

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  • Evil_Shrubbery@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    So not one but two suffering entities?

    Somehow that makes it worse.

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  • SuddenDownpour@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    What, you guys haven’t killed the other one? You truly aren’t minmaxing your brain usage capacity.

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    • Jiggle_Physics@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      You don’t kill the other one. You work on coordinated them so you can consciously apply yourself to two different things at once.

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      • glitch1985@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        Multi-threading.

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  • JoYo@lemmy.ml ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    oh there’s way more than two minds in your brain.

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    • EmptySlime@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      I too have ADHD

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  • OofShoot@beehaw.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    As far as I understand, the line gets even blurrier then that. Apparently quiet a lot of the subsections of your brain do things that can be interpreted as conciseness, but we experience it as one unified thing.

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  • Sam_Bass@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Can vouch for that. Ive always been of two minds on any given subject

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  • skarn@lemmy.today ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    It certainly feels like that at times. The key being the non verbal part, it’s the part that feels things i can’t explain, like I have to poke and probe some part of my brain by imagining, to try and see how it reacts to certain thoughts and observe the emotions, then try to put it into words to explain it to the conscious part of my mind. Like, the subconscious is not unconscious, it’s perfectly conscious just not verbal.

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  • NigelFrobisher@aussie.zone ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Neither of mine can do speech.

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  • Sanctus@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    make us whole

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  • Omega_Haxors@lemmy.ml ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    This hypothesis is bullshit. There are far more than just two consciousnesses.

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  • LiveLM@lemmy.zip ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Well looks like someone broke the barrier because this smart ass up here is always giving me shit!

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  • ag_roberston_author@beehaw.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Bicameral Mentality: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicameral_mentality

    It’s a concept that is quite well explored by the first season of Westworld.

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  • BluesF@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    The only thing I can think of that this could refer to is split brain patients who have undergone a specific medial procedure once used to treat epilepsy. It’s possible, although not well understood, that the two halves of their brain operate sort of independently, and only one has access to speech.

    It’s a very interesting topic, well worth diving into! But it’s also very muddy, there is contrasting evidence for and against the “two mind” theory.

    Anyway, I’m fairly certain this “theory” does not apply to healthy brains which have not undergone this procedure.

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  • Fleur__@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Inside you there are 2 wolves

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  • Transtronaut@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Is this egg_irl?

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  • Jimbo@yiffit.net ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    We are all a little crazy on this blessed day

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  • Kolanaki@yiffit.net ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    You mean the wolves?

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  • unreasonabro@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    It’s the same as the old devil v angel on your shoulder bit. There’s a left hemisphere mode of understanding, a right hemisphere mode of understanding, and there’s what happens when they’re well integrated, which is mostly only achievable through meditation.

    Just for the record, the left brain is the denialist, which offers hypotheticals and which takes the behaviour of others and places it firmly outside yourself, edifying the lie you tell yourself that you are separate and different from the other largely identical monkeys. The right brain tends to communicate in gestalts and complete pictures, without negativity and possibly without reference to individuality; YMMV.

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  • nifty@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Dual consciousness is not exactly proven though, so idk what to think. Hope researchers shed more light down the road

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  • Mun_Walker@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Check out- Thinking, Fast and Slow By: Daniel Kahneman

    It deals with the concepts of two minds in one. System one and system two

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  • force@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Split brain experiment

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  • kalkulat@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    " We do not have to visit a madhouse to find disordered minds; our planet is the mental institution of the universe." — von Goethe

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