Yes.
Also phones made in the US have back doors that the US government can access. It’s not really secret.
Do Huawei phones have a secret backdoor that the Chinese government can access?
Submitted 9 months ago by skeezix@lemmy.world to [deleted]
Comments
LillyPip@lemmy.ca 9 months ago
ringwraithfish@startrek.website 9 months ago
It’s secret like Area 51 is secret. We know it’s there, we know the government is doing something with it, but we don’t know fully what, when, why, or how.
Dark_Arc@social.packetloss.gg 9 months ago
I don’t think the US backdoors phones anymore … mostly because they don’t need to. They find other ways to get the information, like warrantless surveillance of Google and Apple notification servers.
Cinner@lemmy.world 9 months ago
The backdoors the NSA uses are known vulnerabilities, 0days, USB drops, all the normal hacker tools… and if it’s a target of sensitive enough in nature, maybe a warrant requiring Apple Update/Windows Update/whoever or whatever device needs spied on, to deliver a payload to that specific machine.
Persen@lemmy.world 9 months ago
I’m sorry if I act like an asshole, but doesen’t this mean, the same as the comment you answered to?
Lemminary@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Why do these threads always circle back to the US? It’s always the obnoxious “USA bad because other country bad”
And no, I’m not American
olutukko@lemmy.world 9 months ago
It’s just pointing out that chinese are not the only people to spy on you
aberrate_junior_beatnik@midwest.social 9 months ago
Because asking whether a chinese phone is spying on you is a loaded question.
linearchaos@lemmy.world 9 months ago
They’re definitely grabbing analytics and statistics. But so is AT&T, Verizon, T-Mobile, Apple, Amazon, Samsung, Google, Microsoft.
If the Chinese government asked any of those other companies to give them all the data they have on you in particular, They probably tell them to get bent.
But if the US government told them to do it, they would comply and then have a gag order slapped against them to keep them from telling you it happened.
Huawei is beholden to the Chinese government. So it works kind of in the opposite way.
FuglyDuck@lemmy.world 9 months ago
If the Chinese government asked any of those other companies to give them all the data they have on you in particular, They probably tell them to get bent.
More likely they’ll send an invoice. They’re already selling your data to them. (And everyone else.)
Skates@feddit.nl 9 months ago
If the Chinese government asked any of those other companies to give them all the data they have on you in particular, They probably tell them to get bent.
Haha what? You think there’s any chance in hell that China doesn’t get what they want from any US company? Check out this video, this is what happens when a random American says something China doesn’t like. Now go ahead and picture those companies not bending over backwards to kiss Xi’s ass if it means affecting the bottom line.
queue@lemmy.blahaj.zone 9 months ago
John Cena is not a random American. You and I are closer to random than John Cena, a man who is internationally famous and a professional actor. That’s like saying Tom Cruise is a random American, when you know exactly who I’m talking about without googling.
That said, yes, China censors American media and actors, and it’s horrid. The fact that films get made in America and edited for China and America, is a crime to any artful visions the writers, actors, directors, editors and more may have had. But China itself doesn’t have the time and energy to stop you or I online all the time, it barely can do it within the Great Firewall, due to the sheer scope of the population and area the country covers.
dutchkimble@lemy.lol 9 months ago
Surprised the rock got away
CluelessLemmyng@lemmy.sdf.org 9 months ago
Short answer is “likely”.
If you work in a field with sensitive data (financial, healthcare, technology, politics) you don’t get a phone designed by a China-government owned company.
Treczoks@lemmy.world 9 months ago
I upgrade to “most likely”.
Treczoks@lemmy.world 9 months ago
I upgrade to “most likely”.
Hjalamanger@feddit.nu 9 months ago
It doesn’t matter if it’s a Huawei or some American phone, China, USA and others will spy on you no matter what phone you choose only the means differ. If you buy a Huawei china will have backdoors in your phone and the USA will buy all your info and if you get an American phone the USA will have backdoors and china will buy the data.
Also I find the focus on china kinda weird. I ultimately don’t want anyone stealing my data, not even the USA. Just like china the USA has been involved in mass surveillance and a lot of war crimes. For example American soldiers have been found guilty of rapping and killing children. From Wikipedia (United States war crimes > war on terror > Iraq war):
On 12 March 2006, a 14-year-old Iraqi girl named Abeer Qassim Hamza al-Janabi was raped and subsequently murdered along with her 34-year-old mother Fakhriyah Taha Muhasen, 45-year-old father Qassim Hamza Raheem, and 6-year-old sister Hadeel Qassim Hamza al-Janabi.
After all of that I want to ask you one question, do you really want the USA sterling your data?
Also what you answer that question with doesn’t matter since both china and the USA will be stealing your data no matter if you want it or which phone you buy.
As a final note I should maybe mention that I’m not American if you haven’t figured that out yet. Also please don’t accuse me of spreading Chinese propaganda. I’m advocating against the USA and the CIA, not for china.
Also sorry for being so political in a kind of not that political thread.
SRo@lemmy.dbzer0.com 9 months ago
But it sounds like you are advocating for china. Look how much you wrote about another country when someone asked specifically about china and a Chinese phone manufactured in china.
andrewta@lemmy.world 9 months ago
If you think he is advocating for China then you need to reread what was wrote
Hjalamanger@feddit.nu 9 months ago
My point is just that I don’t want anyone spying on me and it doesn’t matter if the one spying is the US, china, french or russia. They have nothing to do with my personal data.
phillaholic@lemm.ee 9 months ago
You’re missing the point entirely. In the US, companies can take the federal government to court to stop them. When agencies installed backdoors on Cisco equipment it was done through intercepting hardware through carriers, and individually installing them on targeted hardware. Not forcing Cisco to hand over access to every router they sold. You can argue about whether they should do that at all, but it’s not the same.
NeoNachtwaechter@lemmy.world 9 months ago
I don’t have any specific knowledge regarding the specific question, but:
I would rather expect a frontdoor.
shartedchocolate@lemmy.world 9 months ago
😂
pimento64@sopuli.xyz 9 months ago
If Lenovo’s multiple rootkit fiascos are anything to go by for Chinese-designed electronics, yes.
adespoton@lemmy.ca 9 months ago
Most of Lenovo’s rootkit fiascos are due to lack of vetting bundleware providers though; Huawei is actually unlikely to have a backdoor in their phones. Their 5G infrastructure on the other hand is known to have at least two different potential backdoors designed in such a way that they may just be a chain of unfortunate vulnerabilities. Or not.
lseif@sopuli.xyz 9 months ago
not trying to argue ‘both-sides’, but most likely so does the US government/five eyes/whatever for android (and sometimes ios)
trustnoone@lemmy.sdf.org 9 months ago
I mean, it’s written into law in Australia fee.org/…/australia-s-unprecedented-encryption-la…
And you can be sure that data is shared with 5eyes.
PutangInaMo@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Go on about this five eyes
lseif@sopuli.xyz 9 months ago
The Five Eyes is an Anglosphere intelligence alliance comprising Australia, Canada, New Zealand, the United Kingdom, and the United States.
they share intelligence and personal information of citizens between each other.
there also exists ‘nine eyes’ and ‘fourteen eyes’
skullgiver@popplesburger.hilciferous.nl 9 months ago
[deleted]NegativeLookBehind@kbin.social 9 months ago
if you work in a field that may be interesting to Chinese competition.
So, nearly everything then
Dark_Arc@social.packetloss.gg 9 months ago
So far, all of Huawei’s found potential backdoors turned out to be them being extremely terrible at writing secure software or developing secure operating procedures.
That’s how you write a backdoor in 2023 “oops… Guess I made a mistake again”
queue@lemmy.blahaj.zone 9 months ago
Probably, but iPhones and Android have them for the Five Eyes and anyone else who is willing to pay/push for laws to make it happen. All you do with a phone is pick your poison, do you want China to spy on you, or America, the UK, or some other government or company who then sells it to the highest bidder.
Any cell phone, dumb or smart, is a tracking device. The smarter it is, the better it is as snooping on you. Doesn’t matter how or where the phone’s hardware is made, it’s going to track you without consent. You just need to ask “Am I worried about China or am I worried about another government?” to even “If the backdoor is big enough, can third parties get me too as I walk by on the street?”
seedd@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Not a backdoor, a loading dock
Flax_vert@feddit.uk 9 months ago
Probably. Also, look at myactivity.google.com . Any info you have there can be handed over to a government
SHOW_ME_YOUR_ASSHOLE@lemm.ee 9 months ago
Well I’m fucked. Thanks for sharing that link, I had no idea Google tracked what time I used Signal messenger.
Not sure what to do with this information but I didn’t realize it was that granular.
ohlaph@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Probably a garage door.
irreticent@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Revolving door.
ReginaPhalange@lemmy.world 9 months ago
On the same vein, do wo know if Intel Management Engine is a NSA backdoor?
I keep hearing about the potential of it beeing a back door, but haven’t heard an exploit using it roaming about the interwebsal177@lemmy.sdf.org 9 months ago
It’s not known to be a backdoor, but it’s a juicy attack surface that customers are largely ignorant of and provides little consumer benefit. If I were an NSA employee and my boss handed me a blank check to develop a preboot exploit for Intel PCs, I’d start with IME.
A_A@lemmy.world 9 months ago
if they don’t, it’s the only phones without.
walter_wiggles@lemmy.nz 9 months ago
Are you the FBI? You have to tell us, you can’t lie.
jvrava9@lemmy.dbzer0.com 9 months ago
Just as much as the US government has.
0x4E4F@sh.itjust.works 9 months ago
Have no idea…all I know is, everything is manufatcured in the PCR.
Flax_vert@feddit.uk 9 months ago
PRC*
PCR is funny, though
whaleross@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Sean, these questions are out of line
moon@lemmy.cafe 9 months ago
I’m sure it’s nothing in comparison to what the CCP get from TikTok
TWeaK@lemm.ee 9 months ago
Most of the tracking/backdoors is at the application level. Stock bloatware is a risk, less so the manufacturer’s firmware. Even non-bloatware can be a risk, for example many core Xiaomi apps (eg Phone and Messages) have ads and the apps connect to Chinese servers to deliver these. How significant these risks are is subjective and down to your own personal opinion.
You should definitely try and remove bloatware that comes pre-installed. For one, you’ll probably find a Facebook system app that the manufacturer bundled, this is separate to the actual apps you use their services with so why the hell would you want it? After that, you could try a custom ROM, particularly one based on pure Android AOSP, however leaving the manufacturer’s firmware can mean you miss out on some functionality (cameras are notoriously more functional when you use the manufacturer’s app).
Even with all that, there’s still the possibility of hardware vulnerabilities. However, it would be difficult to exploit these without physical possession of the device.
Oha@lemmy.ohaa.xyz 9 months ago
yeah.
ryathal@sh.itjust.works 9 months ago
It wouldn’t be very secret if it was published on the internet. It’s definitely a credible concern given the level of control China demands of companies operating in the country. The US also essentially has backdoors into most communication, and possibly phones as well, so it’s not that crazy for China to also have them.
China is also very aggressive in hacking into companies. Even if they didn’t have a custom backdoor, them finding a way in and essentially banning Huawei from fixing it, is another option.
fishos@lemmy.world 9 months ago
I was under the impression it was was common knowledge/rumor that Cisco hardware all has a US installed backdoor. Huawai having a backdoor specifically wasn’t the big revelation/concern. It was that it was Chinese/foreign government controlled. Everyone puts backdoors in, it’s just a matter of only having friendly backdoors you can control.
ryathal@sh.itjust.works 9 months ago
The rumor probably exists, but the US seems to just bully companies into getting access rather than building back doors into equipment, based on available evidence. They do maintain unpublished 0 day exploits though, so it could also be both.
GadolElohai@kbin.social 9 months ago
@fishos It is emphatically not common knowledge. I'm reading everyone asserting that such and such governments have backdoors on phones or whatever device, but you're the first person to cite an example. If you have more, I would appreciate you sharing those.
CleoTheWizard@lemmy.world 9 months ago
This is the exact reason Lenovo is the way that it is. The US didn’t trust them not to have a back door and so they grew US operations to keep from getting banned. This has all played out before