Not fat, ideal body form
hows keto working out for you
Submitted 2 weeks ago by mycatscool@lemmy.world to [deleted]
https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/9431e018-3422-4444-9d1d-8df3dccf0748.jpeg
Comments
Kyrgizion@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Same reason chimps are built like trucks without having to train a lick. Superior genetics baby.
Carnelian@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I was looking into that recently, specifically gorillas, just because it’s such a common sentiment that humans have to work so hard and eat so particularly to build muscle but gorillas are naturally jacked.
It turns out they have a lot going for them in that regard
So first of all they low key do actually strength train. They use their strength to break and process vegetation. These dudes will straight up rip a tree apart with their bare hands. It’s pretty crazy. It’s also how they spend most of their time.
Like they literally wake up at 6am, do a crazy workout, eat a ton, take a nap, then do another crazy workout, eat another ton, then go to bed. Every day. It’s basically the same routine Arnold ran when training for the olympia.
The other thing that comes up is how they mostly eat plants but humans need tons of protein. This part is the most fascinating to me.
So humans have a concept of “essential amino acids (essential proteins)”. There’s like over 500 aminos in general, and for the most part if we need one for any particular bodily function, our bodies can just make them out of whatever. The exceptions are these 9 particular aminos which we require, but cannot create ourselves, so we have to get them directly from our diets.
Humans also have relatively pathetic digestive systems. There’s an entire large category of plant matter we consume that we simply cannot process, and it passes through us. We call this material “fiber”, and it’s still very important for us to eat, but nonetheless it is simply not broken down into energy or other building blocks.
Gorillas do not suffer from either of these limitations. Their bodies can produce all necessary amino acids, and they can break down fiber.
So with all this, when you look at their diet as a whole, (which is about 40lbs per day of plants, and keeping in mind the plants are simply more nutritive to them biologically, and their neutrality towards the specific amino profile of their food), when you crunch the math, they actually end up eating slightly higher than the daily protein value recommended for high level human bodybuilders.
That coincidence totally blew my mind. Like we’re so closely related and require the same basic conditions for muscle growth, but achieve it in such parallel yet unrelated ways. Totally awe inspiring
ryedaft@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
What the fuck? There’s 20 amino acids. And I’ll bet you anything that the same amino acids are essential to gorillas and humans. We are weird creatures and our genetics stand out among the great apes but that’s too much difference.
Gorilla digestive systems are longer and they have this special thingie that I’ve forgotten the name of to help with plant matter digestion. They aren’t like ruminants so they can’t really digest fiber but also don’t think they are coprophages like rabbits.
Humans have massive brains that suck up a bunch of energy. We use the brain so our bodies don’t have to do as much work. Carrying around more muscle than you have to is a recipe for being out-competed (e.g. Neanderthals). But if something like the myostatin gene is knocked out or it’s expression is reduced by generic mutation then we also build a lot more muscle. The only issue is that we don’t have millions of years of evolution for that situation to match the rest of our bodies.
django@discuss.tchncs.de 2 weeks ago
I’d like to have a gorilla digestive system now. 🥲
Junkers_Klunker@feddit.dk 2 weeks ago
So you’re saying that the theory about über und unter mensch is real, but that the über mensch isn’t white and proud but rather blackish and hairy?
FloMo@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
TIL - thank you for sharing!
skisnow@lemmy.ca 2 weeks ago
Yup. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blubber
Blubber is the primary fat storage layer for some mammals, especially for those that live in water. It is particularly important for species that feed and breed in different parts of the ocean. During these periods, the animals metabolize fat. Blubber may save energy for marine mammals, such as dolphins, in that it adds buoyancy while swimming.
Blubber has advantages over fur (as in sea otters) in that, though fur retains heat by holding pockets of air, the air expels under pressure (i.e., when the animal dives). Blubber, however, does not compress under pressure. It is effective enough that some whales can dwell in temperatures as low as 4 °C (40 °F). While diving in cold water, blood vessels covering the blubber constrict and decrease blood flow, thus increasing blubber’s efficiency as an insulator.
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today 2 weeks ago
a seal abs and muscles were built, because they swim all the time. they can hold thier breath for 30minutes, i think some others can hold longer. the southern elephant seal holds the record at 2hours.
IndustryStandard@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
It really is what peak performance looks like
tym@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I choose to imagine you’re the polar bear version of jason statham’s character in every movie he’s ever done.
SippyCup@lemmy.ml 2 weeks ago
Specifically Snatch.
“A seou 'as got abs like a brick shi-ouse’s got shit”
pressanykeynow@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
southern elephant seal holds the record at 2hours
Don’t want to think how the scientists made them compete for this record
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today 2 weeks ago
probably a tracking collar, so it can determine how long they stayed underwater hunting squid.
RedRibbonArmy@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
Are we drunk or just 8 years old?
FosterMolasses@leminal.space 2 weeks ago
Wow. I thought only redditors were this insecure about their own intelligence.
BilSabab@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
that’s muscles!
Atkat@leminal.space 2 weeks ago
Muscles don’t keep you warm in freezing ocean water! Blubber does that.
…Man I wish I had a bulletproof excuse like that.
BilSabab@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
during climate change apocalypse being pudgy is a difference between life and death!
AnimalsDream@slrpnk.net 2 weeks ago
All of the anti-carb diets are a joke. Carbs are fucking great.
boonhet@sopuli.xyz 2 weeks ago
They’re really not, but not everyone needs them.
If you’re bordering type 2 diabetes and carbs just make your blood sugar shoot up and crash down, reducing or eliminating carbs can get your shit back in check without medication, and make it much easier to reduce your calories (since you don’t feel compelled to stuff your face again because of shaky hands)
AnimalsDream@slrpnk.net 2 weeks ago
Yeah, they really are. The only valid medical reason to ever use the keto diet is if you have severe epilepsy, and that is an intervention that is only supposed to be done short term, and under close medical supervision.
At best keto as a general diet generally shows to result in rapid weight loss for only about a year at most, before it plateaus. Odds are any results that come from it are only because the person dropped a few high caloric foods. If your plate is usually full of meat and Mac and Cheese, and you replace that with more meat and, I dunno, buttered veggies, then you’re probably eating less calories overall. That would explain the plateau too, because being in a calorie deficit is a state of starvation, and even unconsciously we have a tendency to seek out ways to calm our cravings. That’s why plant-based diets are the most effective and consistent for weight loss, because they are naturally lower in overall calories while also providing foods that are known to be satiating.
Obesity in and of itself is the primary driver of type 2 diabetes, and overconsumption of fats - especially saturated fats - are drivers of insulin resistance. So while keto might provide short term symptom relief since your body doesn’t have to process sugars, it is about the worst thing you could do for yourself to treat the illness, because you are making the underlying cause worse in the long run, as well as driving progression of cardiovascular disease. Effective, sustainable treatment of type 2 diabetes has to involve, first most chiefly, overall weight loss; but you also need to lower total fat intake, as well as replacing the harmful fats like butter, lard, coconut and palm oils, as well as meat and dairy, with good fats like canola and olive oil, and whole food sources of good fats like nuts and seeds, and avocado.
You can find a solid, real scientifically backed program for both type 2 and type 1 diabetes treatment here.
I want it to be understood, I am not interested in internet arguments when it comes to this subject matter. This is not banal identity politics. This is life and death. I have seen too many loved ones die and all from poor lifestyle habits, including type 2 diabetes. It doesn’t need to fucking happen, and I am sick of people flippantly advocating for something that is quite literally the opposite of everything that nutritional science has found to be truly effective. It is grossly irresponsible. Keto is just one more re-branding of a long history of failed anti-carb diets. They never have worked, they never will work, and the only job they need to do is sow enough doubt in people’s minds to get them to keep eating all of the things that are killing them. It is the tobacco industry playbook plain and simple.
limer@lemmy.ml 2 weeks ago
This was me, is me. I had to start a no grain diet to get my blood sugar down. Between that and exercise I have avoided, so far, having to take meds for diabetes.
I am diabetic, but my average blood sugar is in the normal range without medication. If I eat wrong or get laz, I have problems
buttnugget@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I have diabetes and I have this guide to carbs and healthy eating. It’s 45-60g carbs per meal I think, and the portions are hilarious. It’s like 1/100th of a bagel or something.
myotheraccount@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Checks out, if your bagel weighs more than 4.5-6kg
AnimalsDream@slrpnk.net 2 weeks ago
sexybenfranklin@ttrpg.network 2 weeks ago
A regular sized bagel is 60g of carbs, more or less. My dietician had me target 60-75 grams of carbs per meal with a total daily target of 225-245 for my type 2 diagnosis.
SippyCup@lemmy.ml 2 weeks ago
Carbs are a great delivery mechanism for calories. So good, in fact, that the caveman part of your brain really insists on eating as much of them as you possibly can. Some people have problems getting the caveman part of their brain to shut the fuck up and consequently they eat too many carbs. They do that for so long that that end up having a foot amputated and die young of kidney failure.
Empty carbs, the carbs most people think of as carbs, are a terrible source of nutrition and are the primary reason most people are fat. Bread, skinned potatoes, pasta, corn, and sugar. That kind of shit. You know, the delicious carbs. The carbs that the caveman part of your brain really insists you eat more of. Cutting those from the diet helps regulate hunger for people who are calorie counting.
You can get 100% of your daily carbohydrate needs from green vegetables. You can do that pretty easily because you don’t actually need that many carbs.
That said, if you have a healthy relationship with food, are at a healthy weight, and your bloodwork doesn’t show any signs of metabolic syndrome or heart disease, keep on keeping on. Congratulations, you can eat whatever you want. Just understand that being adult, especially an adult in the US, that can tick all of those boxes is pretty rare and other people do have issues they’re trying to correct, and have to keep an eye on their diet. Generally, that means cutting out the fun carbs even if they’re not doing keto.
AnimalsDream@slrpnk.net 2 weeks ago
It would be a lot more accurate if you edited your comment so that every instance of “carbs” was replaced with “calories”. Cave-people had no way of knowing what any of the nutrients were in the foods they ate. Their enemy was starvation. Ours is the opposite, and all sources of calories contribute to weight gain. Sugars, fats, and salt are considered the three main villains in highly processed food addiction, not sugar alone. What you’re describing is known as the toxic food environment.
I worked as a pharmacy tech for a while, in a grocery store. My pharmacist had informed me that pharmacies, at least the ones in grocery stores, generally operate at a loss. So why keep them? I don’t know if there are any tax benefits of kickbacks, but what is known is that the regulars at the pharmacy were spending twice as much on groceries as everyone else. What were the lion’s share of medications in the pharmacy? Various heart disease and high blood pressure meds, stuff for diabetes, and various forms of ozempic-type meds. There were other things too of course, but you can see this pretty clear picture of, as before, a toxic food environment gently manipulating everyone into eating all the hyper-palatable foods that are making them sick, and then needing to get prescriptions for medications in the pharmacy at the same store where they are buying all of the things that are poisoning them into needing those meds in the first place. It’s pretty disgusting right?
But again, it’s not just carbs. If you look at the various sugar diets - those will actually cause rapid weight loss. They’re terrible diets, don’t do them, but they will result in probably even more short-term weight loss than keto. Neither are sustainable, see my comment here for more on keto. In short, keto is absolutely garbage and should be avoided.
I do not eat whatever I want, nor am I young. When I was 30, one of my family members had died of a heart attack at the age of 46. I was already working on shifting to a more vegan lifestyle after seeing one of those documentaries that showed what factory farms are like, but seeing a loved one die at such a young age and such a close age to where I was at the time added urgency in learning more about the nutritional side of things, which is what led to my following a generally whole-food plant-based diet. Easily one of the best decisions I have ever made in my entire life.
blarghly@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I mean, I sure do like pizza and beer. But my personal experience is that low carb diets are awesome. I’ve done the keto diet probably about half a dozen times in my life, and (after ensuring my electrolytes stay balanced) it has consistently given me positive results.
I first tried it with the notion that fat and protienn were satiating, and therefore it would be easier to stick to a calorie deficit. Simple. I disregarded all the people who talked about “more mental energy” or whatever bullshit - I just wanted to lose fat. But the results blew me away.
Without counting calories and while eating lots of deliscious food, I lose fat basically without trying and get a six pack. My athletic performance isn’t diminished, and my hunger levels drop noticeably. Hunger itself feels less important, and my emotions in general become more positive - I am more likely to feel happy and grateful and to fall into flow states, and setbacks and bad moods bother me far less. I fall asleep easier and sleep more soundly. My skin looks better. And these effects persist as long as I am on the diet - it isn’t just “losing water weight” or whatever.
Why does it do this? I dunno. Just does. Typically I eat a diet with lots of veggies, beans, some meat, and the occasional pizza and beer night. But comparing a whole foods keto diet to a standard american diet of processed junk food, I’m gonna go ahead and say that keto will come out far ahead, and I’m not gonna let the perfect be the enemy of the good.
AnimalsDream@slrpnk.net 2 weeks ago
Anecdotes are not evidence. Even from your own description it’s untenable to pin down what your diet even is, other than, “whatever you feel like eating.” In that sense it’s virtually indistinguishable from the standard American diet itself. Here is an actual nutritional expert on keto:
Should you try the keto diet?
It’s advertised as a weight-loss wonder, but this eating plan is actually a medical diet that comes with serious risks.
A ketogenic diet has numerous risks. Top of the list: it’s high in saturated fat. McManus recommends that you keep saturated fats to no more than 7% of your daily calories because of the link to heart disease. And indeed, the keto diet is associated with an increase in “bad” LDL cholesterol, which is also linked to heart disease.
Other potential keto risks include these:
Nutrient deficiency. “If you’re not eating a wide variety of vegetables, fruits, and grains, you may be at risk for deficiencies in micronutrients, including selenium, magnesium, phosphorus, and vitamins B and C,” McManus says.
Liver problems. With so much fat to metabolize, the diet could make any existing liver conditions worse.
Kidney problems. The kidneys help metabolize protein, and McManus says the keto diet may overload them. (The current recommended intake for protein averages 46 grams per day for women, and 56 grams for men).
Constipation. The keto diet is low in fibrous foods like grains and legumes.
Fuzzy thinking and mood swings. The brain works best when the energy source is sugar from healthy carbohydrates to function. Low-carb diets may cause confusion and irritability.
Those risks add up — so make sure that you talk to a doctor and a registered dietitian before ever attempting a ketogenic diet.
Or better yet, just don’t do it. It’s a dumb fad diet that needs to die.
ILikeBoobies@lemmy.ca 2 weeks ago
Carbs/fats/proteins are just the delivery of calories.
If you’re wondering we burn them in the order of protein > carbs > fats. That’s why we store them as fat, eat carbs before an athletic event, and eat protein after one.
confusedbytheBasics@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
If you’re wondering we burn them in the order of protein > carbs > fats.
That’s not true. Learn more about en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citric_acid_cycle if you want to understand.
AnimalsDream@slrpnk.net 2 weeks ago
I’m aware of the basics of macronutrient digestion and metabolism, and your description is… weird. Would you care to share a source on your claims?
It also needs to be noted, unless you’re eating nothing but supplements and highly processed powders, no one eats fat, or carbs, or protein. We eat foods, and virtually all foods contain all three macros in varying ratios. In the real world we get all three together every meal, and if you’re not, it means you’re following a diet that you probably shouldn’t.
farting_gorilla@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I thought this was interesting, TLDW is that exercising in cold (water/environment) increases appetite after, so it’s not great for a person that’s trying to lose weight
blarghly@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I’ll fall back on my default null hypotheses here.
- The effect is probably minimal if it exists at all.
- If there is any effect, it is probably negligible if you are doing the big things right.
- Your body is smart, and responds to changes in its environment with an eye towards improved survival and fitness. It is not a simple CICO machine.
So suppose we have an overweight person who is trying to lose weight. They hear about cold water exposure, and how being cold burns more calories. So they start running 10 miles every day at 5 am wearing nothing but a t shirt and shorts in the middle of winter. Then they go to starbucks, buy some hfcs with a touch of coffee, and go work at their office job that they hate because capitalism or something. Almost certainly, this person’s jounts would start to give out quite quickly, but let’s say they hate themselves enough to keep at it all winter. At the end of winter, I would be unsurprised if they gained weight. Sure, they exercised in the cold - but more importantly they were over training, consuming a poor diet, and living an otherwise stressful life. One of the body’s best defences against coming hard times is to store calories for future use - by increasing appetite, decreasing subconscious calorie burning, and shunting resources towards fat storage rather than, say, growth and maintenance of muscle, skin, hair, etc.
On the other hand, suppose we have the same individual. They start with the premise that their body is already great, but they would like it to be better, and the way they will achieve this is via having fun and living well. Thus, their fat loss program consists of learning how to ice skate at the town park after work, going snowshoing on the weekends with their local hiking group, adopting a journalling routine before bedtime, and frequently inviting friends over for dinner parties where they make sure the emphasis of the meal is on protein and vegetables. They also open up to friends about how they aren’t really motivated in their job, and their network of friends helps them gain the skills and industry contacts necessary to get a job that is more to their liking where they get to do interesting and meaningful work with other people whose company they enjoy. At the end of the winter, I would expect this individual to have lost fat despite exercising in the cold. While fat is good for energy storage and insulation, hiking and ice skating are activities where the body generally benefits from having a lower bodyweight - and warmth can be achieved via increased muscle activation rather than fat insulation. Meanwhile, they were spending a lot of time in beautiful natural environments, interacting with people they liked, eating healthy food, sleeping well, and working towards improving their lives in all aspects. “Things are good and I can expect them to get better” is the antithesis of the doom and gloom stress that will likely drive weight gain. Instead, the body will think “the present is not bad, and the future looks easy - and meanwhile, this extra weight is hindering my ability to move easily. May as well get rid of it.”
This is why we find hot people hot. In the past when calories were scarce, a high bodyfat percentage indicated that in the hard times you were living in, this person had access to a lot of calories, and you could expect this trend to continue. These days, life is relatively easy, and storing excess calories is an indication that a person finds life to be hard. A lithe person’s body indicates that they have rarely experienced difficulties beyond their abilities, and that they generally live a happy life. This is a good indication of genetic fitness, and hence, they are hot. Same reason why having good skin, healthy hair, a cheerful and outgoing demeanor, and perky tits are hot - they indicate a prolonged state of positive life circumstances which potential mates could generally count on to continue.
farting_gorilla@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I’ll fall back on my default null hypotheses here.
The effect is probably minimal if it exists at all. If there is any effect, it is probably negligible if you are doing the big things right. Your body is smart, and responds to changes in its environment with an eye towards improved survival and fitness. It is not a simple CICO machine.
you could do hypothesis and these rambling thought experiments…or you could watch the video, and see there are several studies saying the effect exists and isn’t minimal
the_q@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
Seals aren’t humans.
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
IT’S AN UNHEALTHY LIFESTYLE! I’M ONLY MENTIONING YOUR WEIGHT BECAUSE I CARE ABOUT YOU!
svcg@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 weeks ago
I don’t mind most marine mammals, but sea lions? I could do without sea lions.
crapwittyname@feddit.uk 2 weeks ago
Source?
JandroDelSol@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I mean, if you aren’t counting your calories and eating in a deficit, you’re not going to lose weight.
pelespirit@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
Research shows that small amounts of physical fitness during the day can be just as beneficial as a full workout
studyfinds.org/can-you-microdose-exercise/
Fiivemacs@lemmy.ca 2 weeks ago
has nothing to do with eating a deficit in calories. you can workout all day everyday, but if you eat garbage mcdonalds and packaged food, you are not going to lose weight ‘micro working out’ or even full day workouts.
JandroDelSol@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
honestly, makes sense. a lot of people don’t want to dedicate a whole chunk of time out of their busy lives, but it’s easy to squeeze in a set of squats or something between tasks
RaivoKulli@sopuli.xyz 2 weeks ago
So if a full workout doesn’t do much for losing weight, these small amounts of physical fitness can be “just as beneficial”?
That’s not saying much hah.
sundray@lemmus.org 2 weeks ago
LOL, I’m 5’2" and hover around 100 lbs, and I’ve had trouble gaining weight my whole life. Eating more doesn’t seem to help much. But I have noticed the more I eat, the more I shit. Perhaps that’s where all my calories are going 😭 .
Sterile_Technique@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I mean that’s still ‘calories out’ if you’re not actually absorbing them. Guessing you’ve already done this if it’s been a life long thing, but just in case, you might want to hit up a gastrointestinal doctor - there are conditions that cause usable nutrients to literally just go through you. You may having one of those - and if yes, knowing which will give you a path to fixing it or working around it.
Then again, 5’2 at 100 lb is only just a hair into the underweight range. If you feel good where you’re at, maybe fuck it.
SomethingBurger@jlai.lu 2 weeks ago
It’s all genetics. Some people gain a lot of weight easily, some eat as much as they can but still lose weight.
I’m 5’7 and 130lbs. It took me 3 years to gain 30lbs. Gaining more is legitimately impossible. There simply isn’t enough time in a day to eat enough calories, unless I do nothing else.
technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
I would have thought that too… But I recently saw a youtube video about how we lose weight through our breath! So maybe you’re breathing too much?
FWIW: www.youtube.com/shorts/_FpClIMEm_c
Frozengyro@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Yup, I was doing keto for over a year to lose weight. Got to a healthy weight, stayed there for 3 months, and decided I wanted to gain weight to help build muscle. Put on 20 pounds while still being on keto. Then lost weight again to look leaner. It’s all calories in, calories out. However some people find certain diet types to be easier and preferable to others.
greedytacothief@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
Eating in a deficit? Yes, counting calories? No. There’s times I lose weight just because of activity load. Hell I did a 3 hour bike ride on Sunday that burned around 2000 calories. When ski touring season hits I’ll probably lose a bunch of weight. I get that most folks can’t do activities like that, but there’s a lot more to fitness than just your body fat. If I loose weight due to exercise it’s usually 10 lbs but over the summer I went from 180 to 165 without thinking once about my calorie intake.
technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
The bliss of youth.
JandroDelSol@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Yeah, you’re definitely an outlier in this lol. Most people who need to lose weight cannot (or, realistic, don’t want to) exercise enough to create a deficit without also changing their diet. You sound like you’re already at a healthy weight and have an appetite that makes it easy to maintain, which is fucking awesome, but a lot of people have too much of an appetite to lose weight strictly by working out.
darctones@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Pretty sure this guy can’t even count.