Submitted 16 hours ago by Asafum@feddit.nl to mildlyinfuriating@lemmy.world
https://feddit.nl/pictrs/image/a1fb7006-d5ce-4323-a9e9-60222c9a133e.jpeg
91°F (32.7°C) in the factory I work at.
The law states “all factories must maintain a reasonable temperature and humidity.”
Nowhere is reasonable ever defined. I am mildly infuriated. And very hot lol
It’s literally in the extreme caution zone.
Highway to the extreme caution zone just doesn’t have that ring to it.
I guess dry heat is a thing. I can do >110 fine, I don’t like it, but I don’t feel in danger. But its 10% or less humidity. Its usually better to wear more clothes just to keep the direct sun off you. Somehow wearing a hoodie in the desert in summer is comfortable. Its also nice not getting sweaty because it immediately evaporates.
Caution at below 27 °C (80 F)? Always? Why is there no “OK” zone?
I believe it’s because this table is for apparent temperature while exerting yourself.
As someone living in the equator where sun is fucking angry at us everyday, 32°c indoor is toasty, and 34°c indoor is torture. You should report to the authority and let them know.
So, uh… We have the same thermostat at my job. It’s not great. You can’t just tell it what temperature you want the room to be, you actually have to tell it if you want it to heat or cool to that temperature.
Yours is set set to 65, but if you look to the left of the current temp, it says “heat.” Someone likely forgot to change that when the weather warmed up. IIRC, one of the three unlabeled middle buttons will fix that.
Lol I appreciate the help, but there is literally no AC unit. All we have is oil heat for the winter so the pipes don’t freeze
I also work in a factory but our temperature is largely unregulated with the exception of offices, break areas and certain departments where the stock needs to be kept away from too much humidity (so, even in those departments it’s humidity control not air conditioning). In the winter it’s cold enough that we’ve had pipes freeze in the center of the building and in the summer it’s normal to see 100 degrees at 3am. It’s too bad I don’t live in one of those states where it’s “regulated” because I think anyone would say those temperatures are unreasonable.
I work in environmental, health, and safety, and industrial hygiene, so workplace safety is my jam. You are correct that the regs are shit. Unless you live in one of five states with heat related regulations, you’re really only covered by OSHA’s general duty clause, which can be summed up as “employers have to at least make a good faith effort to do the bare minimum to not hurt their employees”. It sucks.
For workplace temperature, what you’ll want to look at is wet-bulb temperature, not the dry-bulb reading provided by a thermostat. You can find online calculators that’ll calculate it by temperature and relative humidity. Wet bulb is the measurement accounting for evaporative cooling, so a better approximation of what temperature a human body experiences. Theoretically, a wet-bulb temperature of 35°C (95°F) or more isn’t sustainable and will always lead to heat illness with sustained exposure. Around 30°C (about 85°F) is where we start seeing issues if people don’t consider any steps to avoid heat illness.
It gets tricky from there as there are a ton of variables to determining a safe temperature, e.g., hydration, environmental radiant heat, cardiovascular health, level of acclimation, nature of the work, body mass, break frequency, access to air conditioned spaces, etc.
For example, at 94°F, a healthy adult performing moderate physical activity out of the sun (or away from any other heat source) should be fine up to about 75% humidity, assuming they are dressed appropriately, acclimated to the temperature, remain hydrated, and take periodic rest breaks (I’d advise 10 minutes on the hour).
Let me know if I can help at all. I love heat, but working in it is just miserable.
Thank you for the detailed response! I’ll have to keep an eye on the wet bulb temperature for future discussions about the heat at work.
The regulations really are frustrating especially since I’ve reached out to local “representatives” about how vague they are and naturally got no response lol
Of course! And seriously, hit me up if you need any EHS advice or some real official sounding verbiage. I got laid off so I suddenly have a lot of free time.
I thought that any wet bulb temperature above your own body’s is cause for concern as sweating basically becomes useless, is that not accurate?
You are 100% correct about concern for wet bulb temperature above body temperature, although we start getting concerned at a couple of degrees below body temperature too. The environment has to be a bit cooler so waste heat can be dumped fast enough, otherwise body temperature will begin to increase. Two degrees cooler is barely enough and it’s a miserable experience if you’re doing anything.
I was riding on a bus today where the temperature was 38c(101f). I only sat on it for like 40 minutes and i felt like fucking soup after, imagine having to be the bus driver. High temps like this are extremely dangerous actually.
For me the main thing would be airflow there, and the type of work. I’ve done full days in 35+ machining but windows and doors were open so there was a breeze which made it bearable (not pleasant days mind you)
We have fans, but the air is fairly still outside and pretty humid. “Thankfully” today is less humid than it usually gets, but it’s still thick. I’m in manufacturing as well so there’s all the typical machines running adding to the heat that I’m sure you’re familiar with lol
Im so jealous of people in climates where windows being open matters xD
80% or higher humidity and no breeze for a week at 90+ fahrenheit
The OSHA recommendation is 68-76F, which isn’t a direct link to ‘reasonable’ but provides a suitable context to frame workplace conditions.
If people’s body temperatures can be measured exceeding 100F a link to heat stress and increasing risk of injury in the workplace can also be drawn as it’s generally the equivalent of working with a fever.
I brought that up once during a health and safety meeting, but the issue is the state law being so vague we can’t really force a change and since this isn’t a corporation they seem less inclined to care about legal issues. We’re just a small “mom and pop” factory, like the health and safety meeting I have is myself and the QA inspection guy lol From how he’s described his interactions with “the office” in relation to things mentioned in the meetings they seem to just want us to write down the minutes of the meetings as a formality for OSHA if they ever did come to inspect.
I’ll mention it again so it is on record multiple times though.
Can you break the office ac? Or repeatedly set it to the warehouse temp every time you walk by it.
Fun fact: OSHA recommendations aren’t enforceable. Not supporting this, but the only way you can get traction on workplace temperature (unless you’re in California, Colorado, Minnesota, Oregon, or Washington) is under the general duty clause. While a smart employer keeps their employees safe and reasonably comfortable, all federal OSHA requires is that you vaguely don’t hurt them.
Yep, and precisely why there is the need to develop an argument in defining ‘reasonable’ instead of just citing the applicable law or regulation. The OSHA recommendation provides a less arbitrary foundation for defining a reasonable temperature.
Environmental temps that high put you a serious risk of heat stroke, though. That seems like a pretty clear health and safety violation.
From OSHA: Exposure to Outdoor and Indoor Heat‑Related Hazards
Dangers of Exposure to Heat Hazards
Exposure to heat hazards both outdoors and indoors could lead to serious illness, injury, or death. Heat-related illnesses and injuries can happen at varying ambient temperatures, especially in cases where workers are not acclimated, perform moderate or higher physical activity, or wear heavy or bulky clothing or equipment, including personal protective equipment. Heat-related illnesses and injuries also generally occur when body heat generated by physical work is performed in conditions of high ambient heat, especially when combined with humidity and inadequate cooling.
Heat Index
The National Weather Service (NWS) uses a heat index (HI) to classify environmental heat into four categories:
- Caution (80°F – 90°F HI);
- Extreme Caution (91°F – 103°F HI);
- Danger (103°F – 124°F HI); and,
- Extreme Danger (126°F or higher HI).
It sounds like you’re in the Extreme Caution (and sometimes in the Danger) category.
OSHA mentions a Heat Safety Tool app in that document, too.
Here’s their Heat Stress Guide, too, which says:
The Occupational Safety and Health Act (OSH Act) requires employers to comply with hazard-specific safety and health standards. In addition, pursuant to Section 5(a)(1) of the OSH Act, employers must provide their employees with a workplace free from recognized hazards likely to cause death or serious physical harm.
Enforceability does vary, but OP should know this sounds like a pretty blatant violation and may be enforceable.
Complain that it isn’t reasonable.
We have lol for “them” unreasonable is when the thermostat reads 100° which it just so happens to never hit… We get 98° pretty regularly in the summers, but I’ve only ever seen 99° as the highest not 100…
Sorry I’m not saying to complain so they change it. I’m saying complain and now you have a written record for osha that the temperature is unreasonable. You can now force their hand.
As a UXD who was a firmware dev for products (not thermostats, but similar things), in looking at this display, I’d bet money it’s not capable of showing numbers past 99. The layout doesn’t seem to allow space for more than a 2 digit temp reading.
The ‘heat’ and ‘fan’ indicators on either side of the temp reading are in a fixed location, so the temp display would max at 99. It’s highly plausible the real temperature exceeds that as you say.
Are you in the US? This situation feels like something OSHA would frown upon.
Can you also say that what they are telling you is unreasonable? They should be working in the same building if they think it’s ok.
I always wonder about these situations where the breakdown is. Somewhere someone’s boss is just ignoring the needs of those below them and they think they are helping the company. You need to find where that’s happening
I have a thermostat that looks just like that at home. It doesn’t go to 100°, like the other commenter said.
Why is it on heat mode? They just dont wanna run AC at all?
There is no ac at all lol
I vote we rename this comm to “infuriating” and have people bring their own adjectives to their post
What state has that law? Or is it national?
Outside of an actual climate controlled storage unit (IE a giant fridge/freezer) every warehouse or shop I’ve ever been in for any reason had zero climate control and not even any insulation. Concrete base, with thin courrugated steel walls/roofs mostly. Shits like an oven, since it ends up being even hotter in the building than it is outside.
I’m in NY and that’s the language I was able to find in the states laws regarding factory conditions, but it’s not really regulated since their only stated “metric” is a completely vague, subjective amount: “reasonable.”
Nowhere in the language do they define reasonable, and when I reached out to my “representative” asking for clarification they never responded, naturally lol
If you can reach out to a local expert, there’s probably an assumed standard for “reasonable” that the state goes by. Vague laws like that frequently just mean that you use the standard set by an administrative admin or the courts.
I don’t know what kind of work you do, but I’ve worked in factories and manufacturing my whole career and this isn’t that unusual in my experience. I’d definitely be raising my pitchforks if you weren’t provided water, breaks, and some methods of cooling (such as fans).
Worst I’ve ever had was in a paper mill. The dryers ran very hot and sometimes our job required getting really close to them. They were hot enough to burn, so long sleeves were required when near them. Easily had some 40+ °C days in there, but we had access to a cooled break room and allowed quite a lot of breaks.
Still, when we did have to work by those dryers, it was usually because the paper broke and caused big jams. That is a hell of a mess and has to be cleaned up as quickly as possible to get the machine making paper again. Let me tell you, wet paper is heavy. Hauling that shit down the length of the dryer alley, in 40+ heat, in mandatory sleeves and long pants… Some of the hardest work I’ve personally ever done.
Pay was great though.
Good on them for at least trying to provide something! I’m in manufacturing and we thankfully lack the 40+C issues, but we also lack the great pay and cool break room lol if it’s bad enough on our allotted breaks (2 15min per day + lunch) we’ll just go to our cars and run the AC. They don’t give any extra time to cool off though just the same break structure as usual.
Pass out from heat exhaustion and then sue them
They didn’t even set the fan to “on” mode!
Lucky. 100° f in mine rn.
ImplyingImplications@lemmy.ca 16 hours ago
You’re not alone! I worked 12 hours in 37°C (99°F), 47% humidity yesterday. However, we get essentially unlimited breaks in an air conditioned break room, have cooling vests filled with ice packs we can wear on the floor, and are supplied with sports drinks and feeezies. Your work can’t really make the world less hot, but they can work with you to avoid development of heat related illnesses!
Asafum@feddit.nl 16 hours ago
The cooling vests are something I should bring up in my next health and safety meeting! I doubt they’ll buy them, but at least we’ll have it on record that it was brought up lol
We used to have a purchasing agent that would buy water and stuff when it got really hot, but now we have one that argues about buying stuff we need to actually do our job let alone feel comfortable doing it lol
SkyezOpen@lemmy.world 15 hours ago
A few hundred bucks of cooling stuff vs how many tens or hundred thousands if everyone keels over?
ImplyingImplications@lemmy.ca 15 hours ago
These are the vests we have: TechNiche CoolPax. They’re okay. I find the ice packs melt quickly and freeze slowly but they’re good for temporary relief. My company initially bought these to be worn under hot PPE like hazmat suits, but even just having a bunch of ice packs in a freezer you can take out on the floor to hold onto could work.
shalafi@lemmy.world 15 hours ago
Just did a stint at Lowe’s and we had all the cold, bottled water we could drink. The cost is a no-brainer vs. even one heat-related issue. Use the words “worker’s comp insurance” at that meeting!
TranscendentalEmpire@lemmy.today 15 hours ago
Only takes one or two employees to pretend to have heat stroke/exhaustion and get a work sponsored trip to the hospital to force a change in the working environment.
Really would be safer for everyone to have someone pretend rather than wait until someone actually has one.