This study this meme is based on is completely incorrect and should be retracted. Here’s a lay summary of its issues:
whyevolutionistrue.com/…/new-paper-debunks-the-pr…
And the published article detailing the problems with that study’s issues:
She-Ra Lives!
Submitted 3 days ago by fossilesque@mander.xyz to science_memes@mander.xyz
https://mander.xyz/pictrs/image/41c66f5b-c579-4bc6-8f91-f47bf576ef81.png
Comments
canihasaccount@lemmy.world 3 days ago
Murvel@lemm.ee 2 days ago
I remember reading this simply terrible article in Scientific American; the entire article was based on this fraud of a research paper referred to the meme above.
This paper was a complete fraud, and people just guzzled the cool-aid. He’ll they still do, looking at this thread.
Cypher@lemmy.world 1 day ago
I refuted this article when it was published based on their incredibly biased and cherry picked data sources which were entirely baseless.
I wish more people were willing to apply critical thinking and analysis to such claims. All falsified claims are a setback and detriment to humankind’s comprehension of the universe.
kersplomp@programming.dev 2 days ago
To say it’s “completely incorrect” is an exaggeration at best. The paper you cited is far more nuanced than that.
canihasaccount@lemmy.world 2 days ago
A bit of an exaggeration, sure. But only a bit. The lay summary of the article I referenced states the following:
Venkataraman et al. find that the paper commits every error that it was possible to make in the paper: leaving out important papers, including irrelevant papers, using duplicate papers, mis-coding their societies, getting the wrong values for “big” versus “small” game, and many others.
“commits every error that it was possible to make in the paper,” and, “completely incorrect,” aren’t very different.
Smith6826@sopuli.xyz 2 days ago
Did women also hunt? Yes.
“As much as men”?
No, beyond any shadow of doubt. Stop trying to white wash over history and verifiable evidence to try and push your personal agenda of stoking culture-wars.
Unless we’re talking about tribes where the men took care of the children, the above statement is exaggerated at best and borders on anti-history/anti-anthropology nonsense at worst.
You might as well post that the men spent as much time taking care of the children than the women. And if you can admit that is false for the majority of human history, then you can clearly see how this being false also disqualifies the “women spent as much time hunting” statement.
Again, there is no debate on the fact that many women were great hunters and not just gatherers, but you also can’t deny that most of the women took care of the kids.
Looks like I took the bait, didn’t I…smh lol
DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social 2 days ago
What if I were to tell that the word “some” was implied instead of the “all” that you decided was the implication instead?
Smith6826@sopuli.xyz 2 days ago
drake@lemmy.sdf.org 1 day ago
Women hunted as much as men. If your masculinity can’t deal with that reality then I would advise therapy.
HawlSera@lemm.ee 1 day ago
Yeaaah… the whole “We were matriarchs!” myth…
BigDanishGuy@sh.itjust.works 2 days ago
I urge everyone to look up the book Invisible Women by Caroline Criado Perez. The cultural patriarchy is crazy.
Nobody questions how archeology is influenced by contemporary culture. When archeologists find a grave and goes “the body is buried with weapons and a shield, therefore it must be a warrior and thus a man. And they still fucking note how it’s weird that this definitely-a-man is smaller than other men from this culture, and his hips are wide, almost like a woman… But he’s a dude, he’s got weapons after all!” smh
wildflowertea@slrpnk.net 2 days ago
I got the audiobook and I couldn’t finish it. I just couldn’t. I felt so much anger.
But what I managed to get through was fantastic. The part about public transport during winter was so eye opening.
Pistcow@lemm.ee 3 days ago
So you’re saying women are capable of taking out the garbage and recycling?
cybermass@lemmy.ca 3 days ago
I should tell my girlfriend this news!
clark@midwest.social 2 days ago
I thought everyone knew this. Tasks based on sex were not so prevalent until high cultures formed and people started settling down instead of being nomadic.
PugJesus@lemmy.world 2 days ago
Not just nomadic. Many sedentary societies lack strong gender divisions in labor as well.
Steak@lemmy.ca 1 day ago
Men definitely did more hunting then woman in most of human history lmao you are insane
Smith6826@sopuli.xyz 2 days ago
You can downvote me and science, but wake me up if you come up with an argument disputing the entire field of endocrinology, molecular biology, and the rest of biology by extension. Not to mention archeology and anthropology.
At the very simplest way to understand, you do know the difference between testosterone and estrogen, and their biological mechanisms, correct? Rhetorical.
DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social 2 days ago
It’s the anthropology that proves the claim.
Tell us more about your opinions on high school biology.
Smith6826@sopuli.xyz 2 days ago
Tasks based on sex were not so prevalent until high cultures formed…
Like being pregnant and giving birth (as many times as possible), breastfeeding, and raising those same infants while the men are doing tasks that are unfeasible for pregnant breastfeeding women taking care of infants?
Oh, ya ya, for sure. A lot of people in this thread seem to be sharing the same anti-anthopology delusion. Which is very concerning but not surprising in the age of misinformation. More culture-war BS.
drake@lemmy.sdf.org 1 day ago
Anthropology tends to support the fact that women and men pretty much all had equal share of pretty much every task in the palaeolithic and neolithic eras.
You shouldn’t just reject scientific advances because it goes against what you learned at school. What you learned was wrong. Science adapts based on new evidence. You can too.
BruceTwarzen@lemm.ee 2 days ago
That’s why when you see documentaries about tribes that had little to no contact to the outside world, women are often hunting and do the heavy lifting and men are at home raising kids and taking care of the village while the women are out there. I mean i haven’t seen it, but according to this one weird paper they must exist.
ynazuma@lemmy.world 2 days ago
Sources?
Which tribes that you often see?
Strawberry@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 days ago
they’re being sarcastic, since they find it preposterous that women are people
SkybreakerEngineer@lemmy.world 3 days ago
I hate to break it to you, but She-Ra is less about hunter gatherers and more about interstellar empires with magitech
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world 3 days ago
Dasus@lemmy.world 3 days ago
I’m gonna use that saying, lol
Poogona@hexbear.net 3 days ago
anyone who tries to claim there was any absolute standard of behavior for pre-industrial tribes like that is just doing fantasy worldbuilding
Every social organization you can think of was probably the way of life for someone out there, from patriarchy to matriarchy, communal to hierarchical
0x0@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 days ago
I wonder whether there was an infantarchal society where they took direction from toddlers. I suppose they wouldn’t have lasted very long if they did exist…
photonic_sorcerer@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 days ago
Pharaoh Tut was nine when he ascended to the throne, I’m sure it’s happened to younger people.
infinite_ass@leminal.space 3 days ago
That’s so ageist.
daniskarma@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 days ago
There was this group that had a teenager as a prophet. She ordered to sacrifice all the cattle to the gods. They all starved.
Search for Nongqawuse
GiveMemes@jlai.lu 3 days ago
Those aren’t an ancient but a modern phenomenon :p
Belly_Beanis@hexbear.net 2 days ago
You’re describing monarchies lmaooo
uis@lemm.ee 2 days ago
InverseParallax@lemmy.world 2 days ago
Yes, octomom has a baby.
Emmie@lemm.ee 2 days ago
My mom would puke at these, even I feel some nausea. It just was such a horrible time to be alive
TheObviousSolution@lemm.ee 2 days ago
The only thing that might predispose women is when they get pregnant. Most forms of hunting don’t require excessive strength. This is not speculation, prehistoric people do not give a shit about your value system or how it imposes itself on science. Animals in animal world be animals.
DimFisher@lemmy.world 2 days ago
In any way all of those are just speculations, it’s very hard to be sure about anything when you go more than 10000 years back in time, all I know is that in school they teach mostly lies
keepthepace@slrpnk.net 2 days ago
Personally I find it weird that we do generalities about a this population as it is very likely that they had all different cultures on the tribe level.
DimFisher@lemmy.world 2 days ago
First of all it’s not even sure that thousands of years ago there was only primitive tribes around the globe, many finds indicate that on this planet existed civilisations different and more advanced even than are own, check Velikovsky and Graham Hancock he wrote many books about the subject.
yetAnotherUser@discuss.tchncs.de 2 days ago
You’re right in some regard though I still believe taking note of trends is important, don’t you? If most pre-record civilizations we find have behaved and lived in a certain way it could tell us something notable about our past.
Jean_le_Flambeur@discuss.tchncs.de 2 days ago
Would be a nice plot twist, but do you habe any sources for your claim? If this is real I would like to know more
fossilesque@mander.xyz 2 days ago
Murvel@lemm.ee 1 day ago
Don’t spread it around. It’s a complete fraud of a paper for all we know. Just the fact that it has convincing rebuttals is enough to make you consider it irrelevant.
ZMoney@lemmy.world 2 days ago
Check out “The Dawn of Everything” by Wengrow and Graeber
ynazuma@lemmy.world 2 days ago
Different point of view on your “source”, which is a mass market paperback made to sell and be consumed, not for serious scientific inquiry.
DragonsInARoom@lemmy.world 3 days ago
Its almost as if people need to be flexible to stay alive
SharkEatingBreakfast@sopuli.xyz 3 days ago
THIS IS A GROUP EFFORT, PEOPLE!
Fizz@lemmy.nz 3 days ago
Do you have a link to that evidence? I remember reading a while back about a find in South America that had female hunters but would be interested in reading more evidence about it being widespread.
Cypher@lemmy.world 1 day ago
One of the original supporting data sources was a myth of the Ainu people containing a woman who hunted.
If you want biased and unscientific sources keep digging into their claims.
Jumpingspiderman@reddthat.com 2 days ago
I grew up in Da Yoop. In my high school, our head cheer leader was an expert bow hunter. This “discovery” is not in any way a surprise to me.
Smith6826@sopuli.xyz 2 days ago
It’s echo-chamber, culture-war nonsense. There’s a reason men are the vast majority of physical jobs, and it’s not because anyone is stopping qualified women from working.
Just as an example, in my personal experience, we rarely received women’s applications to work warehouse or roofing, and even less who met the qualifications of being able to pick up minimum 50lbs (not that heavy, approximately 2x 24’s of beer) on their own.
I’d also like to point out that, while I’m not trying to minimize her impressive achievements, your friend is from modern society, not ancient. She had the privilege of going to school, being a cheerleader and having free time, instead of cranking out babies in the ancient wilderness.
thefartographer@lemm.ee 3 days ago
Oh yeah? Then why am I always angry at everyone all the time?!
Boom. Scienced!
\s
PhlubbaDubba@lemm.ee 3 days ago
Eıŋtcint Siþıėnz a-ſ hæd ƿimin æz worıyṙz. T inu̇f v æn ekſtent ðæt ðı muıt bı ð beıſiſ f ð Æmėzȯn worıyṙz v ledjend.
spoiler
Ancient Scythians also had women as warriors. To enough of an extent that they might be the basis for the Amazon warriors of legend.
trashgirlfriend@lemmy.world 3 days ago
Minecraft enchanting table lookin ass
drunkpostdisaster@lemmy.world 2 days ago
So what do men have to offer besides being dumber more violent women? I hate my gender so fucking much.
BruceTwarzen@lemm.ee 2 days ago
You might need to get off the internet for a minute
loudWaterEnjoyer@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 days ago
dont tell me what to do
MyEdgyAlt@sh.itjust.works 2 days ago
If you can afford it, you should try to find a therapist. Therapy helps.
drunkpostdisaster@lemmy.world 2 days ago
I am American so that’s not an option
VerticaGG@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 days ago
Not downvotin but ill bite.
Dont self-hate. There’s so many self-proclaimed misogynistic chauvanists to hate.
You offer your humanity. That is unique and not about the gender binary.
Your intrinsic traits mean people are more likely to listen to you.
If you’re into a long form video essay, www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBn5VF_On2k
You get to be inclusivity batman
If your up for a punk song propagandhi.bandcamp.com/…/refusing-to-be-a-man
Gender is made up. A social construct used to divide, for the purpose of economic imperialism. If youre up for a book:
www.publishersweekly.com/9781557100238
Self-love is needed if you’re going to uplift others. Your intentions seem to be in the right place. Meet that with humility, humanity and accountabilty to learn and grow from mistakes and you’ll do fine.
One more thing that feels relevant, a sentiment from a friend:
I think that a lot of people on the left are focused on the idea of forgiveness coming from the people who were wronged, but I think that’s a misguided notion. It’s not my place to seek forgiveness from those I have wronged, and I don’t have any obligation to forgive those who have wronged me. I think that the harsh reality is that we live in an unjust world, where justice only exists if we fight tooth and nail for it, and will it into existence with our choices and actions.
So then if you believe what you’re saying, be a part of the fight to make our grass the greener
PunnyName@lemmy.world 3 days ago
I used to believe in Social Darwinism, I got better info and no longer believe that crap.
FarFarAway@startrek.website 2 days ago
My SO has a theory that if the group of people lived in a harsh environment, ie. having to work for what you had with no guarantee of food or safety, etc, it was common for women to work just as much as men. Such a society needed all hands on deck, so to speak. But, when we start becoming “civilized”, and things started getting made for us, (as opposed to an individual making it themselves.) Women and men start having diverging roles. Essentially, there’s just not enough work, so womens role turns into raising the babies, to fill the time. Eventually, for whatever reason, “civilized” society just forgot about the hard times and assumes women have always been there just to raise babies.
Disclaimer: This is based on absolutely nothing. Maybe some random information that explain that women did “men” jobs too, once. Idk.
Gennadios@lemmy.world 3 days ago
Prehistoric humans were persistance hunters; women are about 40% leff efficient compared to men when it comes running, it has to do with center of balance and gait differences related to wider hips and doffering body shapes.
Also, women cant navigate for shit, even of they did run down prey to exhaustion they couldnt find their way back to the tribe.
Juice@midwest.social 3 days ago
*more than
Fleur_@lemm.ee 3 days ago
Can’t we just, you know, ask hunter gatherers how they do it?
ininewcrow@lemmy.ca 3 days ago
As an indigenous Canadian I can confirm this.
Both of my parents were born and raised in the wilderness. I don’t mean that they were born in a modern hospital and later raised in the bush. They were born in the 40s in a teepee with the help of traditional midwives.
Dad was a great hunter and trapper and did all the things you could imagine a hunter and gatherer could do.
Mom did the same as well, not as much or as well as dad but good enough to survive on her own or with children. She hunted birds, fished and could bring down gut clean prepare butcher moose, caribou, bear, wolf, lynx and any other large animal if she had to … when she was a young woman that is. She could also travel, walk, snowshoe, use dog team, paddle a canoe, portage, sail, and survive alone in the bush for weeks or months on her own. In her prime, she was a far better hunter and gatherer than most men I know now including myself.
nondescripthandle@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 days ago
Early enough in human history we weren’t even relying on weapons to hunt as much as the fact that despite not having as high of a top speed as our prey, we could literally chase them until they died of exhaustion, that doesn’t seem like gender would make too much of a difference in it. We all get out ran by prey in the short term, and we all have the stamina and speed to catch up.
rockerface@lemm.ee 3 days ago
Stamina and precision are universal human traits, yep. Nobody can toss a rock and then run a marathon like an angry hairless ape
Dasus@lemmy.world 3 days ago
Literally just walk down animals and eat them, like a paleolithic terminator. We could carry water and possibly some jerry/nuts, so could literally go for days without stopping.
Horses can gallop for like a mile or two and maybe go for like 20 without stopping.
And we have tracking abilities. There was some meme about that paleolithic terminator thing. Like an animal would see these weird naked apes in the distance and that’s it, they’re done. Doesn’t matter if they run or not, death is coming.
And we definitely still have that ability, physically.
Check this out.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cliff_Young_(athlete)
And what a sportsman:
cybermass@lemmy.ca 3 days ago
Ayo fellow Canadians here though not indigenous. Thanks for sharing your story!
It makes me sad how overlooked the stories and lessons of the indigenous people are in Canada and the discrimination still present to this day.
theneverfox@pawb.social 22 hours ago
I think this is just whitewashing history… Even if you look to the ancient Western world, they had goddesses like Artemis
Generally, men fought wars. Like a lion pride - the males are the defenders because they’re bigger and stronger. Hunting doesn’t require raw strength - it requires diligence, patience, and/or endurance
But they all hunt. Lionesses are known for it, but lions do it too. Complete division of responsibilities is an insect thing
Xttweaponttx@sh.itjust.works 1 day ago
Absolutely badass. Crazy to think that folks just a coupla generations up from us had lives without modern medicine and stuff (eg birth in a teepee!) Incredible. I guess sometimes it feels like modern medicine has been around longer than it has.
ynazuma@lemmy.world 2 days ago
Best comment on this thread
Also, amazing life
infinite_ass@leminal.space 3 days ago
I’ll bet she couldn’t carry as much meat as a man tho.
webadict@lemmy.world 3 days ago
I’ll bet she could carry more meat than you.