I always liked the distinction (I forget who originated it) that science fiction is a story set in a world where the rules are defined by physics and fantasy is a story set in a world where the rules are defined by the author.
I always get them confused.
Submitted 8 months ago by FlyingSquid@lemmy.world to [deleted]
https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/ce194c18-38ba-4d39-ac30-c1456bffe91a.png
Comments
AFKBRBChocolate@lemmy.world 8 months ago
FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 8 months ago
Star Wars is fucked…
AFKBRBChocolate@lemmy.world 8 months ago
Oh, it’s fantasy
Infynis@midwest.social 8 months ago
There’s a lot of science fiction where the rules of the world are defined by the author. I think the difference is that the foundation of science fiction is on what the world is, both literally, and metaphorically, while the foundation of fantasy lies upon what the world could be, hence the name fantasy
AFKBRBChocolate@lemmy.world 7 months ago
The point is that if the rules aren’t grounded in science, it’s not science fiction. You can have the trappings of science, like space travel or whatever, but if people are moving objects and doing impossible acrobatics by using a magical force, it’s fantasy.
Though not mine, I personally think that definition works better than most. Still, if you pin me down, I’d say that there’s a spectrum, with hard SF (where everything is rigorously anchored to scientific principles) at one end, and pure fantasy (with magic and such) at the other. There are lots of things between those endpoints, with some being closer to one or the other, and some being very much in the middle.
Kolanaki@yiffit.net 8 months ago
Science fiction is based in reality and usually just extrapolates what we know is scientifically possible, just not with current technology.
Star Trek is science fiction.
Fantasy really just follows the rule of cool. If it’s cool, throw it in.
Star Wars is science fantasy.
prettybunnys@sh.itjust.works 7 months ago
Absolutely 100% wrong.
Star Wars is ancient fantasy, it happened A LONG TIME AGO in a galaxy Far far away
FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 7 months ago
Of course, they don’t say how long ago that is. I mean the 1920s kind of seems like a long time ago.
And all galaxies are far, far away.
pHr34kY@lemmy.world 7 months ago
The best rule: It’s fantasy if there is a sword.
blackbelt352@lemmy.world 7 months ago
Might want to qualify that as if there’s a magic/ special sword.
glitchdx@lemmy.world 8 months ago
On the one hand, you are correct. On the other hand, whoooosh. Don’t feel bad, there are many who got whooshed in this thread.
…
It’s me. I got whooshed.
Caboose12000@lemmy.world 7 months ago
science fiction is in space and fantasy has castles.
I will take no further questions.
blackbelt352@lemmy.world 7 months ago
Counter point Star Wars. Magic powers, magic swords, rescuing princesses, chosen one prophesies.
MIDItheKID@lemmy.world 7 months ago
Star Wars is 100% a Space Fantasy. A boy goes on an adventure accompanied by a wizard to save a princess and become a knight.
fushuan@lemm.ee 7 months ago
as the other commenter said, there’s very little science fiction in star wars. It’s more fantastical creatures and magic and shit. it’s actually fantasy. Star trek however, that’s scify
HK65@sopuli.xyz 7 months ago
Vader even has a castle
saigot@lemmy.ca 8 months ago
If it’s not from the fantasy region of middle earth then it’s just sparkling fiction.
hoshikarakitaridia@lemmy.world 8 months ago
Why does this analogy make sense to me for some reason?
MossyFeathers@pawb.social 8 months ago
Fantasy is almost alway low-tech, Sci-fi is almost always high-tech. As such, fantasy tech levels could be compared to starting low and going high, while sci-fi starts high and then goes low as it tries to explain the concepts it’s introducing.
DarkCloud@lemmy.world 8 months ago
Because in the classical Jungian style of analysis, imagery of the basement of a childhood home was a revisiting of the past.
Likewise “up from the floor” indicates ancients coming up from caves, ancient monsters to be slain, underground dungeons. The primitive unchained and revisited.
…and using Freud’s principle of the inversion; down from the ceiling is indicative of from the future.
Prometheanism, featuring stories of Science only taking us so far before we fall from the ceiling, or rather it chaotically falls on us.
The idea that a return to primative barbarism and violence can also come from above, from technology, from the future unknown, from advanced beings, complex plans, or outter space.
So whether it’s up from the floor (ancient past) or down from the ceiling (unknown future) - it’s coming for us, with risks and dangers we’re not ready for…
…or so the stories go.
iltoroargento@lemmy.sdf.org 8 months ago
DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social 8 months ago
Probably the drugs
EvilFonzy@lemmy.world 8 months ago
I believe I am currently on those drugs! To me, this means that sci-fi is usually written starting from the universe and then focuses down to the individual, but fantasy is written from the individual up to the world. Sci-fi has more of a universe building focus and fantasy has more of a personal and character development focus.
FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 8 months ago
Can I have some of those drugs please?
DharkStare@lemmy.world 7 months ago
I would argue that science fiction and fantasy are the same thing and the only difference is the explanation for how all the cool stuff works.
Functionally, there’s no real difference between a portal that takes the characters to another world using a wormhole and one that does it through through magic. Just like how there’s no difference between Vulcans/Klingons/Wookies and Elves/Dwarves/Beastmen. Both are intelligent non-humans.
BorgDrone@lemmy.one 7 months ago
There are disappointingly few epic space battles in fantasy though.
Sotuanduso@lemm.ee 7 months ago
I’ve been reading stories from the Hatsune Miku rhythm game app, that almost straddles the line between urban fantasy and unexplained sci-fi. The premise is that instances of the vocaloids live in personalized virtual worlds for different (small) groups of humans. The humans can teleport to these worlds by playing a special song on their phone, or the vocaloids can project themselves as holograms from the humans’ phones. It’s almost sci-fi because it mostly works within constraints of technology. For example, you get booted out of the virtual world if your phone runs out of battery, and if your phone gets shorted out, it can prevent the vocaloids from projecting themselves until the phone is repaired (though if the phone still works otherwise, they can voice chat.) Also the special song can be transferred to different machines and still works. But then what makes it more fantasy is that the song and worlds are created from the humans’ feelings (and if they lose the song, a new copy will appear for them,) and it works without internet connection (if one member of a group is stranded and another isn’t, they could have a vocaloid relay a message.) And then just recently I read a chapter where some characters were able to access their virtual world through their dreams, without needing the song file in the first place. For me, that’s what completely tipped the scale into urban fantasy.
Bosht@lemmy.world 7 months ago
Wow. Thank you for typing that up! What an amazing mind the author has to come up with something so uniquely different, at least that I’ve read or heard of.
Sotuanduso@lemm.ee 7 months ago
I don’t know who writes it, and I wouldn’t exactly call it a masterpiece (though to be fair, I am reading translations,) but it is a fun premise. I started reading it because it’s one of the few sources of official Hatsune Miku lore (though ultimately everything is canon,) but the stories focus more on the human characters, with the vocaloids mostly just being there to support. Still, the stories can be compelling.
At this point, half the reason I’m still reading is for the human characters, and the other half is to find details on the premise, such as how it works with thermodynamics, whether the cafe world has an economy, how biological the vocaloids are (do they need to eat?), and how long it’s going to be before anyone finds out that their bestie/sibling/trainer/etc has their own virtual world too (they don’t do a great job of keeping it secret, but they also don’t do a great job of investigating.)
SzethFriendOfNimi@lemmy.world 8 months ago
Enders Game instilled the importance of adjusting your frame of reference.
So it’s science fiction but when you consider a collaborative global human response to existential danger it’s fantasy.
But the Shadow series shows how quickly we go back to weaponizing and using gifted war trained children as tools of conquest… so realism/horror?
jballs@sh.itjust.works 8 months ago
Orson Scott Card actually weighed in on a simple way to determine if something is fantasy or sci-fi since he writes both:
The difference between science fiction and fantasy…is simply this, science fiction has rivets, fantasy has trees.
zloubida@lemmy.world 7 months ago
Fantasy is right-leaning while SF is left-leaning. Easy peasy.
Isa@feddit.org 8 months ago
And the one, floating in through the open window … how was that called again?
A_Union_of_Kobolds@lemmy.world 8 months ago
Horror
Isa@feddit.org 8 months ago
Yes, I can live with that definition … Iä! Iä! Cthulhu fhtagn! Ph’nglui mglw’nafh Cthulhu R’lyeh wgah-nagl fhtagn. Thanks for the clarification.
DarkCloud@lemmy.world 8 months ago
The sideways uncanny; it’s always with us, but only few will see.
capt_wolf@lemmy.world 8 months ago
But what if there’s bats? Bats typically aren’t on the floor!
themeatbridge@lemmy.world 8 months ago
Bats on the floor are obviously Rats, because the bottom of the B is obscured by the puddle they’re standing on.
SpaceNoodle@lemmy.world 8 months ago
Bats are just rats with wings
FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 8 months ago
DumbAceDragon@sh.itjust.works 8 months ago
Fantasy is when there’s magic, sci-fi is when the magic has specific terminology.
EleventhHour@lemmy.world 8 months ago
Star Trek says, “Eat me and my 58 years of series and films— Ad astra per aspera!”
FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 8 months ago
EleventhHour@lemmy.world 8 months ago
Lmao
MonkderVierte@lemmy.ml 7 months ago
What was it again in science fiction, hard and soft? Whereas hard is more realistic and soft has more fantasy.
frezik@midwest.social 8 months ago
Fantasy evolved out of folk tales in the public domain. It was owned by nobody, and everyone could add to the story. It’d be accepted if people thought the story was good enough. Later, new stories were under copyright, but their heritage was clearly public.
SF grew up when a strong copyright regime was already in place. It was owned by either a single person or a corporation, and only they had the legal right to declare what was canon or not.
ryathal@sh.itjust.works 8 months ago
Science fiction is used to look down upon society and is often pessimistic. Fantasy look ls up at what could be and is generally optimistic.
FardyCakes@lemmy.world 8 months ago
Am I the only one that is seeing this a joke referencing Stalactites and Stalagmites? Like I also think that it fits as a good thought experiment, but is the joke so obvious that no one is stating it? Or is am I just reading something into it that’s not there?
AA5B@lemmy.world 8 months ago
I’ve only read your comment so far, but I thought it was obvious enough to be surprised your comment was in top
FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 8 months ago
You seem to be one of the few commenting so far.
d00phy@lemmy.world 8 months ago
I used to get them confused until a visit to Luray Cavern. The tour guide explained that one “held ‘tite’ to the ceiling while the other just ‘mite’ reach it.”
DocMcStuffin@lemmy.world 8 months ago
It’s easier than that: c for ceiling, g for ground.
wieson@feddit.org 7 months ago
They look like:
T
M
guy_threepwood@lemmy.world 7 months ago
Tights come down.
DharkStare@lemmy.world 7 months ago
The joke is so obvious there’s no need to comment on it so others, including myself, are using this as an opportunity to post our opinions on the difference between sci-fi and fantasy.
hate2bme@lemmy.world 8 months ago
Stalactites hold tightly to the ceiling.
FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 7 months ago
And stalagmites grow up from the ground.
Taiatari@lemmy.world 8 months ago
Yeah not obvious to me at all. I came to the comments to get enlightened because I did not get the joke.
finitebanjo@lemmy.world 7 months ago
I honestly thought “that can’t possibly be the joje, right?” because it seems pretty nonsequitur.