Why do social workers get upset when you don't want their help?

Submitted ⁨⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago⁩ by ⁨Kintarian@lemmy.world⁩ to ⁨[deleted]⁩

Let me preface by saying, I have my SUV all set up with a bed and a kitchen and all the amenities I need to camp out in the woods. I like it that way I’m enjoying myself I see no reason to change.

A couple of times I have mentioned that when seeing a doctor and the next thing I know, here comes the social worker with a stack of papers. I tell them that I’m doing fine. That I like how I’m living. I didn’t ask for any unsolicited help. And they don’t seem to listen at all. At some point they just leave me with a bunch of paperwork in a huff. I don’t understand why they get so upset just because I don’t want their help.

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gdog05@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Living in an SUV is often the first step to really needing their help. Housing insecurity is a quick road to pretty rough living. If you are in their system, in their eyes, they can actually act quickly and help you when the likely next step happens. Not being in the system is pretty slow to get help in most places.

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- Kintarian@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  There are a lot of nomads and van dwellers living in dispersed camping spots, traveling the country and enjoying the outdoors. We even have meetups. Others like me leave the sites better than we found them and follow all the rules. Everyone I’ve met so far is happy living this way. I know it seems strange, but enjoying the outdoors and not having to pay bills is wonderful to me and I get to choose solitude or community however I please. It’s a very free way to live.
  
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  - gdog05@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Oh yeah, I totally get the lifestyle. Done enough overloading to really appreciate the lifestyle. But I’m trying to explain things from their point of view. Even if now, you are in control and everything is going according to your plans, they see trouble in months if not years when those plans abruptly change. They know how most people got from point A to point B and are now sleeping in shelters or dark corners of “civilization”.
    
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  - AnarchistArtificer@slrpnk.net ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    When I find myself becoming irked by someone offering help I don’t need, it helps me to think of things in terms of people who slip through the gaps: the system that the social worker is a part of strives to help those who need it, and you not needing that help makes you a false positive. You were likely flagged because sometimes when someone is living in their vehicle, this is a symptom (and reinforcing factor) of their life being in disarray. That is to say that some people who superficially look a lot like you are in need of support, and not catching these people would be false negatives. Bonus complication is that many people who do need this help may also be resistant to support (for a variety of reasons).
    
    Given that no system is perfect, and the error rate will always be greater than zero, we can ask the hypothetical “is it better to have fewer false positives and more false negatives, or more false positives and fewer false negatives?”. Put a different way, when you’re bothered, that’s you slipping through the gaps in a system that has opted for more false positives with the goal of helping as many people who need it as possible.
    
    Unrelated to everything else I said, I’m glad you’ve been able to find a way of living that you’re happy in — it is a challenge when the life that is best suited for us is one that society considers “abnormal”, so I’m happy to hear about anyone who has broken into what works.
    
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  - orcrist@lemm.ee ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Clearly the nomadic lifestyle does not work for everyone. Many people try it for a couple of months or a couple of years and then make a change. If you’re enjoying it, great, and if you enjoy it for years or decades to come, great, but don’t pretend that everyone does. And this is important because social workers cannot predict your future. They can only play the odds and make reasonable preparations for possible future badness.
    
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Apytele@sh.itjust.works ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
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- Kintarian@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  I was in the hospital and she didn’t have very far to go. But I kind of get the point. I’m sure she had 50 different people to see that day.
  
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TimewornTraveler@lemm.ee ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Some good interactions here. Cant speak to the emotional content because I wasn’t present. Emotions are messy, who knows what happened between you two.

All I can say is that the relevant parties saw your conditions of living and recognized them as the risk factors that they are. You living well, and choosing that life, is a pleasant outcome. But they can’t know that without doing a follow-up assessment. For all they know, you’re living in your car scraping up railroad spikes to buy today’s heroin.

Highly disagree with the advice to lie to your doctor. As long as you are not a danger to others, making explicit threats to harm yourself, or harming a child, and as long as you’re following the laws, then they can’t force you to get services.

Next time, just tell them that you’ve already been assessed and were found to not be at risk. And if someone stops by, be friendly… they’re doing a really hard job that puts a lot of good into the world for a lot of people. Take any pamphlets they got cuz it might be useful knowledge. Educate yourself, etc. And keep on truckin! Thanks for the post.

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Blizzard@lemmy.zip ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Where do you shower? Do you have a job? If not, how do you get food, money for gas etc.?

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- Mango@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  I’m not OP, but a previous car life enjoyer. I would shower at planet fitness, did doordash for a living, and I slept in Walmart parking lots, truck stops, and any bureau of land management managed land.
  
  I got food by exchanging money for it…
  
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NeoNachtwaechter@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

I tell them that I’m doing fine.

That’s what most/all of their clients say at first. Especially alcoholics or other addicts do not admit that they need help.

So maybe you should emphasize this point a little more, so that they believe you right from start.

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- Anticorp@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  And emphasize that you’re not an alcoholic or an addict.
  
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lvxferre@mander.xyz ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
It’s clear by your post and comments that you’re living in a SUV due to your lifestyle, not due to deprivation.

So let’s get practical:

Don’t mention to doctors that you live in a SUV; if possible/reasonable to do so, lie.

If you must mention it, let clear that you live in it out of a conscious choice, it’s your lifestyle, and you don’t want social workers bugging you.

If a social worker pops up, highlight the fact that you’re being buggered over and over by social workers, and that you do not want to change your lifestyle.

Beyond that, it is not your problem any more. And that includes their emotional state.

Now, on why they do it. Frankly, I don’t know, but if I had to guess:

A lot of people who desire to help others don’t really do so because they want a better world; they do it for the sake of their own fee fees, because they want to feel like a good person who helps others out. As such, they’re willing to violate the others’ agency and consent and force their “help” down your throat, even if they aren’t actually helping jack shit but being just a burden; and they get really pissy when you correctly highlight that they are not helping and impose some boundaries. (inb4 “but I have good intentions” - go pave Hell with them dammit.)

That is not just social workers, mind you. You see people like this in all professions and environments. However, I believe that there’s a disproportionate large amount of those among social workers due to the nature of their job, simply because social work is all about helping others out.

Couple that with bureaucracy. There’s a high chance that your info is in some database as “refused help”. Guess how someone who, unlike you, needs and wants help but declines it due to pride would get into that database? “Refused help”. So the next social worker checking your entry will see it as someone who potentially might want and need help.
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- protist@mander.xyz ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Any social worker who violates your agency and consent is in breach of their legal obligations and should be reported to their state board. Any social worker who takes things a patient says personally, and responds from emotion based on that, is also a terrible social worker. I’ve been a social worker a long ass time and the people I know and work with do neither of these things.
  
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  - lvxferre@mander.xyz ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    
    Any social worker who violates your agency and consent is in breach of their legal obligations and should be reported to their state board.
    
    In theory it’s all flowers. In practice, no, not really, regardless of country. And since you claim to be a social worker, odds are that you know it.
    
    I’ll go further than that. Even the social workers who are not naturally inclined towards insistence ad nauseam are trained to be this way. You could claim that it is for good reasons (as some people avoid help out of fear, pride, etc.); but you can’t truthfully claim that it is not a violation of both things, because insistence is a violation of agency and consent, like it or not.
    
    Typically, when confronted with that, plenty social workers start babbling about their “it’s our policy…”, as if evading responsibility + hinting that they do it regardless of situation.
    
    And, if OP’s description of the events is accurate, in their case it gets worse: it isn’t just individual workers doing it, but the whole system. If multiple people ask you to do something, even if none of the individuals are being pushy, the system is still being pushy.
    
    Any social worker who takes things a patient says personally, and responds from emotion based on that
    
    Emphasis mine. That “responds” misrepresents what I said.
    
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- Kintarian@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  In general I don’t really like to hurt other people’s feelings. But I also like to have my freedom to decide to do things the way I want. I can see your point but it seems kind of harsh.
  
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  - protist@mander.xyz ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    At no point should you ever be so concerned about protecting a licensed professional’s feelings that you don’t ask for what you want, in this case to be left alone. If they get their feelings hurt, that’s totally on them, because they’re (supposed to be) the professional in this situation.
    
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  - lvxferre@mander.xyz ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    I get not wanting to hurt the others’ feelings, but agency and consent take priority. Specially when it comes to one’s own life.
    
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  - orcrist@lemm.ee ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Can you explain what you felt was harsh?
    
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viking@infosec.pub ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Why on earth is your doctor even allowed to share your personal situation with anyone? Did you consent to that? Else it’s a quite severe violation of your privacy.

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- dustyData@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  You’ll flip when you find out that there are circumstances in which they are mandated by law to share your personal information. That stuff is regulated to hell, and rallying resources to help people sleeping rough is a good thing in my book. Maybe OP doesn’t need the help but the other 99% of the people living on their cars are at huge risk to life. Starvation, hypothermia, malnutrition, human trafficking, prison, just to name a few.
  
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  - viking@infosec.pub ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Insane. Where I’m from they are not allowed to forward anything. Not even billing information to a third party payment provider without explicit written consent.
    
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  - Today@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    A human trafficking course is required to review my healthcare license. They’re not used to seeing people with your skillset. Also, people who do adventurous things often do them well past the age where they’re safe. Just making sure that you know you have options.
    
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- PenisDuckCuck9001@lemmynsfw.com ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Idk, I once got threatened by a doctor for admitting to marijuana use. He said he was going to report me to law enforcement. It never happened but police kicking down people’s doors over suspected marijuana possession was definitely a thing that happened in that town.
  
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  - FeelzGoodMan420@eviltoast.org ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Weird. I’ve never had a doctor that gave a shit about marijuana use.
    
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  - meco03211@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    If that was anytime in the last decade or so that’s horrifically illegal.
    
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- Rhynoplaz@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Shocking twist: OP is 12.
  
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- protist@mander.xyz ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Uhh…if your doctor refers you to someone else within their own practice, that’s in no way a violation
  
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  - viking@infosec.pub ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    It is where I’m from. Not even nurses have full access to the patient file. Confidentiality exists between doctor and patient exclusively, that’s why I’m so shocked.
    
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MrJameGumb@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
It’s because most people wouldn’t want to live in an SUV. If that’s what you like though then more power to you! The social worker was probably upset because you’re doctor called them all the way out there telling that you needed help immediately and when you said you didn’t want help they felt they had wasted their time. It’s really the doctor they should be mad at I guess for calling them out there for nothing

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PenisDuckCuck9001@lemmynsfw.com ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
I would have thought that seeing a doctor should already be a “green” flag that you don’t need their help. I haven’t been reduced to living in my car yet but healthcare got axed a long time ago.

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- otp@sh.itjust.works ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  In a lot of the world, doctors’ appointments are free or low cost
  
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- Kolanaki@yiffit.net ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  California, at least, has free health care with nearly the same requirements to qualify as food stamps. It’s probably easier to get medical care here being homeless than it is if you make more money that prevents you from qualifying because it covers damn near everything and you don’t pay a single cent. I didn’t even use my job’s insurance because I didn’t make enough to stop qualifying for the state given insurance and I’d have to give up $300 out of every check to use the one given by my employer. I barely made $400 each check.
  
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  - ArbitraryValue@sh.itjust.works ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    It’s funny to me that in the USA the people with the best access to healthcare are often either the richest or the poorest.
    
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protist@mander.xyz ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
I blame this mostly on the doctor. The doctor should’ve asked you if you wanted to speak with someone about your situation, but lots of doctors prefer to just make decisions for people rather than ask.

The rest of the blame lies with the social worker, who sounds like a bad social worker. Active listening is Social Work 101, and it sounds like she didn’t do that.

Maybe your doctor’s office is full of people who are bad at their jobs. I recommend against extrapolating anything about these professions as a whole from your two experiences there.

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- Kintarian@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Good point. I’ll definitely never mention it again.
  
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ayyy@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago
As someone who has nearly lost everything to fire that was started by campers more than once there are externalities to your way of life that potentially harm others. I won’t accuse you directly because I don’t know you but the trend is there.

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- Kintarian@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago
  That’s why I do dispersed camping far away from other humans. I don’t use campfires, I checked the forest regulations to see if there’s any current fire restrictions in place, I pick up trash if I see it and I don’t leave any of my own trash.
  
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jollyrogue@lemmy.ml ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
You’re not participating in the capitalist system. You need a mortgage and credit card debt.

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- schnokobaer@feddit.org ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  They are participating in the capitalist system, mortgage or not.
  
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- Kintarian@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Bingo
  
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  - protist@mander.xyz ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    So far off base here lmao
    
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  - Flummoxed@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago
    You do realize that social workers are at least attempting to make social programs work for people? Like, they are pushing socialism in a real, mostly positive way?
    
    I’m really sorry that these people who just really want to help people are bothering you, but maybe just explain your situation kindly and have gratitude for the people they do help who suffer from capitalism?
    
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Boozilla@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
You aren’t hurting anyone or doing anything wrong. Unfortunately, there are a lot of people with fashy instincts who freak out over anyone living an unconventional life. And capitalism frowns on anyone living freely and not paying rent, etc.

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- Sir_Kevin@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  So true. If you’re not following the life script people freak the fuck out. Want to live in a vehicle? Don’t want kids? Don’t want to be married? Into BDSM? Your political views land on both sides? People just don’t know what to do with anyone that doesn’t fit in a box.
  
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infinitevalence@discuss.online ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Or take their help on things not directly related to housing? A decent social worker can do so much for you that could be genuinely helpful.

I wish we treated unhoused with the same basic structure as hospice. Having a team with a social worker, Dr, nurse, and counseling for each person would go a long way to long term well-being even for people who choose to be unhoused.

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- Kintarian@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  That sounds wonderful, I wish we could do that. Maybe someday.
  
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Veedem@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Honest question:

How do you make money for things like food, automobile costs, and your connected device (assuming phone)? I’m not trying to make a broader point. I am genuinely curious.

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- Kintarian@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  A lot of people have jobs online. A lot of people have YouTube channels that they make money off of. Me, I’m on social security. I’m retired and I make a little bit of extra money online. I save up money in a savings account just for situations I might get myself into.
  
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  - Veedem@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Thanks for sharing. Glad you’re happy.
    
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sentientity@lemm.ee ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
People who work in helping professions can sometimes have a lot of their identity and self worth tied up into it. A person who has not processed their emotions and baggage about their job/themselves/their place in the world/etc will unfortunately take that baggage out on clients. It is nonsense and I’m sorry you had to deal with it.

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Kaiyoto@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago
Idk how it’s relavant to them that you are basically a van dweller. As long as you are taking care of yourself (eating healthy, exercising, showing, and whatever else) then it doesn’t matter.

Maybe if there was some treatment that required you to have access to facilities you need in a house but I can’t think of anything. This is one of those times I would omit or just say you live in a house.

Just make sure you’re stashing away some cash in an account so you can replace your ride or put a down payment on a house if you decide you do want something a little less mobile some day.

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