Its only a genocide if it comes from the third reich. Anything else is just sparkling ethnic cleansing.
Germans: what genocide?
Submitted 8 months ago by Ultragigagigantic@lemmy.world to [deleted]
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Comments
CameronDev@programming.dev 8 months ago
Zehzin@lemmy.world 8 months ago
Turkey: See I told you guys
100_kg_90_de_belin@feddit.it 8 months ago
Japan, after decimating Ainu people and brutally murdering Chinese and Korean people in the occupied territories: “uwu”
Etterra@lemmy.world 8 months ago
It’s probably all the radiation.
ooli@lemmy.world 8 months ago
Being on the wrong side of history on the same topic 75 year apart
MissJinx@lemmy.world 8 months ago
saltesc@lemmy.world 8 months ago
flying_sheep@lemmy.ml 8 months ago
They are already. Antisemitic violence has been on the rise here since October 7. Antisemites see Israel do a thing and think “I know, let’s hurt some Jews”
sudo@programming.dev 8 months ago
I think the bigger problem is Germany arresting Jews for antisemitism.
Johanno@feddit.de 8 months ago
I as a german asked an expert on that topic. Chatgpt. According to chatGPT there is no genocide if you don’t kill them with the intention to wipe them from the planet. So if for example you drop accidentally poison into their water because you mixed the Botox and sugar bottle in the water station then even if they all die it is not a genocide.
And since chatgpt is infallable this is the only truth.
carotte@lemmy.blahaj.zone 8 months ago
Good thing then that Israeli politicians haven’t been on record saying that Gaza needs to be “wiped from the face of the Earth”!
amzd@kbin.social 8 months ago
Except that basically all Israeli politicians have made statements saying they have genocidal intentions.
Raykin@lemmy.world 8 months ago
Upvoted but I wish you would have run your post through ChatGPT as well my friend. That was hard to read.
Karyoplasma@discuss.tchncs.de 8 months ago
Comma rule in German is so fucked that normal humans just give up and never use any.
Kusimulkku@lemm.ee 8 months ago
Yeah, genocide often requires intent. So I guess this could be more of a massacre than a genocide.
But there’s quite a few different definitions, some are more lax.
melpomenesclevage@lemm.ee 8 months ago
Except for all the politicians, from shutzstaffel commanders to the (Hitler apologist) PM’s PR guy saying exactly this, using words like cexterminate’ ‘wipe from the earth’ ‘every last one’ and many individual storm troopers posting on their social media, or even their ‘civilians’.
melpomenesclevage@lemm.ee 8 months ago
Teeeeensy nitpick: there are two definitions of genocide that have ever mattered. Two. Not many. Two.
Lemkins original, much much broader, definition, And the one you’re familiar with, adopted by the UN because like everyone on the permanent security council thing had an interest in the definition being a little more narrow. Under which the way the Palestinian people are being exterminated absolutely counts.
Interestingly, by lemkin’s broader definition, making the shutzstaffel stop killing Palestinians might constitute a genocide of the kapostanis; it would be destroying every trace of their culture, and the means of its reproduction.
sudo@programming.dev 8 months ago
I know your being sarcastic but I just want to point out that this is incorrect
here is no genocide if you don’t kill them with the intention to wipe them from the planet
If you plan to cull a demographic by only 10% its still genocide according to the UN. This is the definition that South Africa’s case at the ICJ will be ruled under. Under this definition all ethnic cleansing requires genocide.
xx3rawr@sh.itjust.works 8 months ago
Fire Nation: “We never did the Air Nomad genocide. We didn’t intend to kill them all, we only intended to kill one guy”
A_Very_Big_Fan@lemmy.world 8 months ago
To meet the legal definition of genocide, you also have to have the intent to destroy a particular group of people. So, legally speaking, your example isn’t genocide according to any source.
I don’t know the motives and stuff behind the Israel/Palestine conflict or how it started, but if it doesn’t involve an intent to destroy Palestinians specifically, I guess I could see how that take is valid. Like, the war in Ukraine is egregious too, but that by itself doesn’t make it a genocide.
DragonTypeWyvern@literature.cafe 8 months ago
Deliberate displacement of particular ethnic or religious groups is also recognized as genocide. ChatGPT is wrong, and needs to read the UN definition.
letsgo@lemm.ee 8 months ago
How it started: the Ottomans sided with the Nazis, so when they lost, the Ottomans also lost their land and the Allies got it, following the usual war rule where the winner wins the land. Dividing up the land is where the British Mandate for Palestine came from, under which we gave 2/3 of the land to the Arabs (Transjordan) and 1/3 of the land to Israel. But the Arabs refused to accept this and started the first of a series of wars against Israel. The Arabs, now also partially known as Palestinians, have continually refused to accept any peace deal, starting wars whenever possible and so far losing every one of them. Israel has repeatedly accepted peace deals, even at the cost of land, but it only works if both sides agree, which they don’t: the only deal the Arabs want is all the land and no Israel, which also means no Jews (proof: look at the Jewish communities within existing Arab states (TLDR: non-existent or shrinking)), which means the Arabs are hellbent on a genocide of all the Jews, and are determined to achieve that or die trying.
nonailsleft@lemm.ee 8 months ago
I don’t know the motives behind the Israel/Palestine conflict or how it started
Religion
volvoxvsmarla@lemm.ee 8 months ago
(Preface: I am team genocide. I also live in Germany. Germany’s politics are a disgrace, but I digress.)
What annoys me about this is that this discussion gets so much media attention and focus, while it doesn’t matter in this very moment. I understand that there are implications if it will be defined as a genocide. But right now people are being killed every day en masse and they frankly give a crap about whether they died in a mass murder or terrorist attack or a genocide.
It reminds me of the early days of the Ukraine war when everyone was so obsessed with comparing Putin to Hitler (Putler is still a popular term) and the discussion was high on whether Putins actions amount to fascism or not, with a lot of internet laymen but also experts on that subject chiming in. When I asked a half Russian, half Ukrainian what their opinion was, their reply was something like “who the fuck cares? Call it a chicken pea pie, nobody cares, people are being killed, I don’t give a crap. Somewhen in the future people will be looking back and asking the same question, but it doesn’t matter right now.” And it stuck with me.
If I understand correctly, the ICJ will rule again on the case in a couple of years (?), which obviously isn’t relevant right now. It seems like the ruling would have an aftermath in retrospect but even if they ruled it were a genocide today, nothing much would change directly - but please correct me if I am wrong here.
But what definitely doesn’t matter is what we think. What matters is what is happening. And it doesn’t need a name to be evil and detrimental.
AreaSIX@lemm.ee 8 months ago
Germany has supplied 30% of Israel s weapons, and has continued to do so during this ongoing genocide. If Germany or the US were to acknowledge the ongoing genocide, they’d have to stop supplying those arms immediately, hence stopping the annihilation of Gaza. So it’s of immense importance to keep repeating what most of the world already acknowledges: this is a genocide, and those arming the perpetrators are complicit in their crimes. History will not judge Germany well, but I guess that’s not exactly a new thing for a veteran perpetrator of genocide.
volvoxvsmarla@lemm.ee 8 months ago
Ok, this sounds valid. But what would oblige them to stop them from delivering weapons if the ICJ rules it is a genocide? Is there any legal obligation, can they denounce the ruling?
If you mean acknowledge in a sense of civilian/political acknowledgement, then my issue with it is that it shouldn’t be necessary to be this anal about some definition. It’s splitting hairs on cut off heads. Supporting mass murder is wrong in the context of genocide as well as outside of it. It shouldn’t be necessary to convince the governments that it is a genocide to convince them to stop supplying weapons.
100_kg_90_de_belin@feddit.it 8 months ago
American companies allegedly kept on working with Nazi Germany after the US entered the war. Therefore, unless Israel gets on the UN stand and says, “Yes, we’re committing genocide and y’all’s are next” no one will let non-white deaths affect the bottom line.
melpomenesclevage@lemm.ee 8 months ago
”i am team genocide"
-volvoxvsmarla
I dunno, can we trust them?
volvoxvsmarla@lemm.ee 8 months ago
I hope I won’t be remembered for this quote. I’ll choose my phrasing better in the future.
barsoap@lemm.ee 8 months ago
Genocide, as in the legal definition, requires intent. As far as I see it Germany is not even trying to deny anything Israel did or does, all the government is basically doing is arguing “Your honour, our client can’t have intent because they’re demonstrably criminally insane, we know because we caused that insanity”. Not in that many words, but to that effect.
pyr0ball@lemmy.world 8 months ago
And a sane person/nation would willingly engage in genocide? Insanity doesn’t negate intent. Inb4 India China and Russia of course but you take my point?
barsoap@lemm.ee 8 months ago
With individuals, criminal insanity means that you can’t be held accountable on account of not being able to tell good from wrong: Lacking that ability, you cannot have an intent to do wrong. It’s also not a get out of jail free card, it’s quite often a get locked into a closed institution for an indeterminate amount of time card, until the doctors decide that you’re not a danger to yourself or society. Being judged criminally insane can turn a five-year sentence into de facto life.
And it’s not like I personally agree that the notion is really applicable to a people, or that it should be considered when it comes to the genocide convention, but darn someone has to be their defence lawyer – they certainly aren’t capable of defending themselves, pretty much everything they say just makes people more mad, justifiably so. Given Germany’s history don’t blame us for taking on that role.
HopFlop@discuss.tchncs.de 8 months ago
The thing about insanity is made up by the person eho posted that comment. What they actually say is that Israel’s intent is to defend themselves against the armed attacks by the Hamas, so self-defense, and not to commit a genocide.
HopFlop@discuss.tchncs.de 8 months ago
Your honour, our client can’t have intent because they’re demonstrably criminally insane, we know because we caused that insanity". Not in that many words, but to that effect.
That’s completely made up, either by you or by another person. What they actually say is that Israel’s intent is to defend against the armed attacks of the Hamas, not to commit a genocide.
More like: “Your honor, our client is just trying to defend themselves, they are not doing this to commit a genocide”
barsoap@lemm.ee 8 months ago
Mere defensive intent does not match up with the evidence unless you assume psychosis, and Germany very much is not denying the evidence.
bartolomeo@suppo.fi 8 months ago
The insanity started way before Nazi genocide:
barsoap@lemm.ee 8 months ago
That’s a spark, not the kindling, much less the oil we poured on top of it. Without that, the “holocaust oil”, Israelis would probably be like French levels of patriotic today.
KillingTimeItself@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 months ago
it’s not genocide, it’s war crimes: Germany, 2024
JusticeForPorygon@lemmy.world 8 months ago
Siegfried@lemmy.world 8 months ago
Well, he is right, its mass murdering, but not genocide.
DragonTypeWyvern@literature.cafe 8 months ago
Wait until we find his 2012 Twitter handle calling everyone but Titans unnecessary
desktop_user@lemmy.blahaj.zone 8 months ago
If I randomly kill all humans it would be genocide. I absolutely hate the common usage of the word, but killing all humans definitely would be genocide.
rottingleaf@lemmy.zip 8 months ago
It’s still genocide if somebody survives. Otherwise Holocaust wouldn’t be a genocide.
yetAnotherUser@feddit.de 8 months ago
Killing 50% of any one people is genocide, right? For example, the Nazis killed up to 50% of European Romani people and it is classified as a genocide.
Let’s assume killing 50% of n peoples is genocide.
Since killing 50% of n peoples is genocide, killing 50% of n+1 peoples must also be genocide, else a number N would exist such that killing 50% of N - 1 peoples is genocide but killing 50% of N peoples is not. The existence of such a number N would be quite contradictory, as it would imply one could undo genocide by killing more people. Additionally, if one were to first kill 50% of N - 1 people and then kill 50% of one more people some time later, both events would be classified as genocide, since killing 50% of one people is assumed to be genocide.
Therefore, Thanos did in fact commit genocide.
jkrtn@lemmy.ml 8 months ago
Israel: [Murdering journalists and foreign aid workers] see? It’s not only Palestinians, it’s random.
psvrh@lemmy.ca 8 months ago
If it weren’t tragic, it would be funny.
sentinelthesalty@lemmy.world 8 months ago
Germany: “Fucking casuals, you call that a genocide!”
PiratePanPan@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 months ago
HawlSera@lemm.ee 8 months ago
Germany, are you going to be responsible for EVERY FUCKING World War you humans fight in!?! Liiiike feck.
evranch@lemmy.ca 8 months ago
I don’t get this WW3 talk that seems to only be here on Lemmy. Like, does anyone actually expect any countries with significant global influence to line up behind Hamas?
The closest I can think of is Iran, and they’re a regional power at best, and they prefer to work behind the scenes.
No, this will be a nasty little “tempest in a teacup” as always, with lots of onlookers wagging fingers but doing nothing. This is what all neighbouring nations are already doing - in fact they love the fact that Israel’s disproportionate response is damaging their reputation. They’re more than happy to stand by and watch, as they’re the ones who set Gaza up as a punching bag in the first place.
Ukraine is far more likely to evolve into a global conflict, especially with Ukraine’s position weakening and Poland chomping at the bit to jump in.
doubtingtammy@lemmy.ml 8 months ago
Like, does anyone actually expect any countries with significant global influence to line up behind *Hamas*?
Do you seriously think WWI happened because countries “lined up behind” Gavrilo Princip?
HawlSera@lemm.ee 8 months ago
Look if Germany isn’t evil, is it even a World War sequel. Come on, the writers need to stay consistent
melpomenesclevage@lemm.ee 8 months ago
Is all champaigne from france?
If Germany’s not on the wrong(er) side, its just a sparkling global conflict.
Randelung@lemmy.world 8 months ago
😂 but also 😭
PatFussy@lemm.ee 8 months ago
Maybe because what is happening is not genocide?
RedditWanderer@lemmy.world 8 months ago
Youre gonna have to be a bit more specific in your defense. They have been killing all Palestinians, have been saying that all Palestinians are Hamas (including kids), and have said multiple times they want to wipe them off the face of the earth.
How is that not genocide?
PatFussy@lemm.ee 8 months ago
If there was an intent to destroy Gaza and all it’s inhabitants Israel would have done so already. I probably need to see more justification than some emotional outburst a few days after getting terror attacked and israeli citizens kidnapped.
Your arguments are weak. Yes there is a sad situation where a lot of Palestinians are dying but it’s not a genocide.
DouchePalooza@lemmy.world 8 months ago
They are 2 million in gaza. Hamas (oh so trustworthy source…) says Israel killed over 30000 thousand. That’s 1.5%. Palestinians are near extinction I tell you!
PhlubbaDubba@lemm.ee 8 months ago
When your argument is trying to explain the technical definition of genocide, you’ve lost the fucking argument, it’s a genocide.
PatFussy@lemm.ee 8 months ago
Technically you aren’t brain dead but some might say you are brain dead. Is that the same thing?
computerscientistI@lemm.ee 8 months ago
As a German: I think it really is not our job to criticise Israel/the jewish people. There are about 200 other countries that are capable of voicing their opinions. I seriously doubt Hamas left Israel much of a choice, though. They are still keeping and mistreating hostages. What is Israel supposed to do? Passively standing by and watching their hostages being impregnated?
RustyShackleford@programming.dev 8 months ago
What is Israel supposed to do? Passively standing by and watching their hostages being impregnated?
No, obviously not.
Killing international aid workers, Palestinian men, women, and children indiscriminately doesn’t seem like a viable solution either and calling everyone who criticizes your military policy as “anti-Semitic” is not what you should do either.
smonkeysnilas@feddit.de 8 months ago
But it’s not so simple and the media reporting is sometimes super biased and misrepresenting things. For example the aid workers that got killed. Before that happened the convoi got hijacked by Hamas fighters that actually started firing first. Somehow all the reports leave out that quite important detail.
hairinmybellybutt@lemmy.world 8 months ago
what about the genocide claim buddy bud
Luccus@feddit.de 8 months ago
As a German, I feel like, we should be capable of seeing 10th of thousands of people die, including reporters and literal children, and fathom that this… is bad.
Linkerbaan@lemmy.world 8 months ago
"“The Jewish People” Germany really goes hard on their propaganda.
Those IDF rape fanfics really go hard in Germany. Too bad all those rape accusations turned out to be false like the 40 beheaded babies.
The only party torturing their hostages and even cutting off their limbs is also israel: Israeli doctor says detained Palestinians are undergoing ‘routine’ amputations for handcuff injuries
nednobbins@lemm.ee 8 months ago
It’s one thing to refrain from commenting but supporting Israel makes it clear that Germany learned nothing.
sudo@programming.dev 8 months ago
None of the hostages were raped or are being raped. This is total Birth of a Nation, “They’re coming for our white women”_ bullshit.
zerog_bandit@lemmy.world 8 months ago
Glad to see Germany addressing the conflict rationally, unlike half of Lemmy which just screams “genocide!” in every thread.
Still waiting to hear an explanation for why there are no Jews in Iraq, Syria, Jordan, Yemen, and Egypt, when there were historical populations in those countries (hint: it’s the G word)
PhlubbaDubba@lemm.ee 8 months ago
You mean that G word that happened right after Israel came into existence and proceeded to demonstrate its intent to conquer by immediately disregarding its own borders with Palestine?
Genocide ain’t it no matter who’s doing it and for what reason, but it’s real fuckin’ convenient to just ignore a major instigating factor that just happens to be the country you’re trying to apologism for.
nonailsleft@lemm.ee 8 months ago
You mean after the Arab neighbours started a G on the jews as soon as the Brits left?
Sure the jews aren’t much better but it’s clear they’d be G’d themselves if it wasn’t for their weapons
ZeroTHM@lemmy.world 8 months ago
Too rational for Lemmy.
HarryPotter@lemmy.cafe 8 months ago
It’s the convert word.
zerog_bandit@lemmy.world 8 months ago
Hamas supporters so deranged that they’re trying to use the past to guilt today’s Germans.
Linkerbaan@lemmy.world 8 months ago
lightnegative@lemmy.world 8 months ago
Everyone seems to be forgetting who started this in the first place.
Israel is sure as hell gonna finish it
SanndyTheManndy@lemmy.world 8 months ago
It would be genocide if they were targeting a particular ethnic group. And please remind me why it’s more important to spend UN session time trying to decide whether it it genocide and not, idk, actually taking actions to stopping the war?
Ascend910@lemmy.ml 8 months ago
Right now it seems like the effect of people who got bullied in the past is likely to bully people in the future
GregorGizeh@lemmy.zip 8 months ago
Staatsräson 🫠
Mr_Dr_Oink@lemmy.world 8 months ago
I guess they have fairly high standards when it comes to genicide…
Ultragigagigantic@lemmy.world 8 months ago
In hindsight this should have been posted on political meme.
My apologies, I’m new to lemmy. Thank you for your patience yall.
Treczoks@lemmy.world 8 months ago
That is one of Germanys foreign politics problems that for historic reasons it cannot critizise whatever Israel does. If they started beheading children in Jerusalem or bombed orphanages, the German government will turn a blind eye.
onewaymars@lemm.ee 8 months ago
great meme OP or should i say groß meme!
lugal@sopuli.xyz 8 months ago
We know genocide, we had one
And no, the Herero and Nama genocide wasn’t a genocide
moon@lemmy.cafe 8 months ago
Can you blame them? This is what happens when you use the metric system
S_204@lemm.ee 8 months ago
I’m inclined to believe they have the expertise and experience to make this claim.
Harbinger01173430@lemmy.world 8 months ago
We should cancel Israel on the internet already
Aceticon@lemmy.world 8 months ago
Should say “Genocide Denial Expert” in that plaque.
gibmiser@lemmy.world 8 months ago
Image