Americans refuse to apply the law to trump for some reason
Just to get this straight. If I stand outside a voting center and give each person 500 bucks to vote for me. That is illegal? But if I am a Dipshit In Chief and offer 5k that is 100 percent legal?
Submitted 2 weeks ago by Patnou@lemmy.world to [deleted]
Comments
shittydwarf@piefed.ca 2 weeks ago
Triumph@fedia.io 2 weeks ago
How do you expect that to happen when the fascists own and operate all three branches of government and are hands on with DoJ?
Americans have no choice in the matter, if we're talking about legal channels.
athatet@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
For real. Like yeah, lemme just waltz my ass on over there and issue a citizens arrest. That will go over splendidly.
Snowclone@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
there’s a major error in that the president, according to legal experts, can’t be arrested by anyone but congress and the house, which makes no sense. he should simply be president from a poison at this point.
isleepinahammock@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 weeks ago
No. It’s just moronic to argue that this is or should be illegal. For fuck’s sake, people in this thread are arguing it should be illegal for politicians for run for office promising to establish new government programs or give people money. They’re letting their campist impulses cloud their judgment.
Snowclone@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
it’s very different to say ‘‘I’ll extend medicade to all’’ vs ‘‘if I win this election I’ll cut you a literal check’’ there are different meanings here.
moldy_rice@piefed.keyboardvagabond.com 2 weeks ago
That reason was decided by the Supreme Court
mrmaplebar@fedia.io 2 weeks ago
Turns out the president is above the law, and can only be impeached, given the rare condition that the opposition party has a supermajority in Congress, of course!
Artisian@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Presidential immunity only extends to official acts see here. That said, its so poorly defined as to be irrelevant at the moment.
Still, I suspect distributing checks from the federal government that was not appropriated by congress would very much fail to qualify.
ulkesh@piefed.social 2 weeks ago
When there are no consequences, everything is an official act.
BradleyUffner@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
They won’t even let you stand outside a polling place and hand out water bottles to people waiting in line.
Salamanderwizard@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Not if you’re a Dem. Saw Maga groups outside our local voting polls last election. They were cooking and handing out water.
prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 weeks ago
Oh no lol that only applies to Democrats.
Nibodhika@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
It’s very different. One is “I will give YOU money if you vote for me” and the other is “I will give EVERYONE money if I win”. The main difference is that one is not discriminating against who people voted for. The first is buying votes, the second is a campaign similar to “I will retroactively lower taxes for this year if I win”, which I don’t think anyone would see as problematic but it’s exactly the same outcome as the one you’re finding problem with, i.e. give people money.
It’s a stupid campaign because anyone with half a brain understand that he’s not going to do it and that that money would have to come from someplace else, but it’s still a campaign promise similar to any other promise politicians make to ask you to vote for them.
BillCheddar@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
That’s the secret to Conservative power in America.
Step 1: Make everything illegal Step 2: Accept bribes to overlook crimes of allies Step 3: Punish the shit out of your opponents.
Congrats! America is now Russia, with better food and shittier fascists.
DarkFuture@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Step 1: Have money.
Step 2: Rape children (and adults).
Step 3: Put an “R” next to your name.
Congrats, you are now immune from consequences.
JustPlainDave@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
The law only matters to us poor folks. It isn’t applied to the rich.
Ioughttamow@fedia.io 2 weeks ago
This is what tips me over the edge, all in on maga now. I’m surely gonna collect the 5k from the dude famous for stiffing contractors and bankrupting casinos
lightnsfw@reddthat.com 2 weeks ago
If no one prosecuted you for it, it might as well be.
GreyEyedGhost@piefed.ca 2 weeks ago
There is a difference between “I will pay you to vote for me” and “I will pay you if I win.” The first is certainly illegal, the second should be. In some ways, the second statement reminds me of the phrase, “Will no one rid me of this turbulent priest?” Sure, no direct order was given, but the priest still died.
I don’t expect to see any response to this statement from law enforcement, just like there wasn’t when Musk actually paid people to vote for the conservative judge.
Snowclone@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
the funny thing about the priest quote is that the king DIDN’T want him killed and him being killing was a nightmare for the King and everyone knew he had him killed.
SolacefromSilence@fedia.io 2 weeks ago
Also funny that their king wasn't above the law... kinda sorta, but still actually had to answer for it to someone.
Akasazh@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
This turbulent priest
That’s a funny typo
Artisian@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
(I’ll note that even states refused to pursue Musk. It appears that you can claim to do something illegal for a few hours on the internet, reap the media rewards, and then edit the post. Political activists, do take note.)
oyzmo@piefed.social 2 weeks ago
Everything is legal when everyone let you write the rules.
Tja@programming.dev 2 weeks ago
Or ignore the rules that someone else wrote to prevent you from doing the thing.
RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Well he did make it so tha tnothing he does in office is illegal, even if it’s illegal.
hanrahan@slrpnk.net 2 weeks ago
do you have supreme court immunity?
Anti_Iridium@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
It’s also legal to give someone money after the fact for a job well done, and it’s definitely not a bribe.
TheNextMuon@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
He will not give the money. He makes a promise. He breaks the promise. Please people - don’t be stupid. Do not believe this idiot.
prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 weeks ago
It’s hilarious that everyone here is assuming he’s not just straight up lying about giving that money to everyone and not just the people who vote Republican.
smeenz@lemmy.nz 2 weeks ago
Nobody is getting any money
Thebeardedsinglemalt@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Oh people will get money. It’s just that the ones who will get aren’t the ones who need it
TheNextMuon@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
It is hilarious that every MAGA idiot and apparently you think that he is going to pay anyone that money. He has made similar promises before, breaking his promise time after time.
FiniteBanjo@feddit.online 2 weeks ago
Yes, but dipshit in chief is lying to you, but hypothetically it would be legal.
If the 5k were reliant on you voting for hin and not somebody else then that could be illegal, but his lie was that everyone would get the 5k just like he previously lied about 2k stimulus on multiple occasions.
But he is lying.
Biden promised to wipe out student debt and by god he tried it on three or more occasions. Is that illegal? Was it illegal for Bernie Sanders to campaign for free college and medical?
But Trump is lying to you.
PwnTra1n@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Saying “I’ll increase quality of life” is not the same as “I’ll give you cash” the first is a normal political promise and the second is a scammer. What everyone else has said and done is not to be compared to this trash bribery. You are right that trump is full of shit but very wrong with your shit both sides argument.
FiniteBanjo@feddit.online 2 weeks ago
Saying “I’ll increase quality of life” is not the same as “I’ll give you cash”
It is when you have to spend money to get quality of life such as education and healthcare.
skisnow@lemmy.ca 2 weeks ago
People are downvoting based on what they want the law to be rather than how it actually is. Trump’s promise is functionally the same as promising tax cuts, it’s just that he knows how to phrase it in a way that makes people feel more directly connected to it.
Malica@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
Law means nothing in a coup
Devial@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
If I stand outside a voting and promise to give each person 1000$ a month for the rest of their life of they vote for a candidate I like, that’s illegal.
It I stand om stage at a campaign and promise that, it’s called Universal Basic Income, is a legitimate policy suggestion and perfectly acceptable campaign promise.
So where’s the line ?
VitoRobles@lemmy.today 2 weeks ago
Holy fuck this is the stupidest take I ever heard. Congrats! You’re so fucking stupid.
Devial@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
So you’re saying my comment is a worse take than literally everything MAGAt and Trump have done and said over the past years ? Really ?
Devial@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Yes, UBI gives people much, much MORE money than a one time bribe.
If it’s so stupid, explain to me what is legally the difference between a politician promising to pass a UBI law of they’re elected, and a politician promising to pass a law governing a one time government payment ?
flandish@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
direct payment in exchance for a vote.
the former in your example benefits even those who do not vote for you.
phoenixz@lemmy.ca 2 weeks ago
One difference is that you’d be lying avputbthe former whereas the latter would be a political thing you’d kinda have to do
Devial@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
A) who says I’m lying
B) in what utopia do you live where politicians never break campaign promises
BlindFrog@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Can’t tell the difference between “I will pay you to vote the way I want” vs “I will fight for progressive policies to set a minimum standard quality of life”, smh
Devial@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Did you even read my comment ? I never even came close to claiming the two things are morally/ethically the same, I literally state exact opposite explicitly more than once.
But legally both situations are a politician promising to pass legislation that gives voters an unconditional direct financial benefit, if the politicians win their election. How are the situations differently LEGALLY ?
isleepinahammock@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 weeks ago
Yeah I agree. There’s a lot of campist motivated reasoning in these threads.
nanometer1625@thelemmy.club 2 weeks ago
No, it’s not legal, but at this point there are no federal officials left who are willing to enforce the law when Republicans break it.
Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Two centuries ago, a somewhat obscure Scotsman named Tytler made this profound observation: ‘A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury. After that, the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits with the result the democracy collapses because of the loose fiscal policy ensuing, always to be followed by a dictatorship, then a monarchy.’
Artisian@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Yes it is illegal for you to do that, as it would be for Trump. But no, Trumps proposed 5k checks to all adult citizens, as I understand it, is legal. I’m pretty disappointed in the other answers. A few relevant points.
- Remember the model for sending checks to folks: CARES. Both Biden and Trump have previously done this.
- Congress can legally amend and pass laws. Note that the law that makes bribing for votes illegal is not in the constitution, so it requires only the usual legal action to amend it.
- I note that the policy Trump proposed isn’t discriminatory on who you vote for; your hypothetical does. (I suspect this is irrelevant for the legality, but certainly helps the optics.)
Karmanopoly@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
itisileclerk@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Also if you have sex with a minor is illegal but if you are the President then it’s OK.
newton@feddit.online 2 weeks ago
There will never be a payout of 5 k ,from taco, all lies
Naive@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Welcome to America
Rhaedas@fedia.io 2 weeks ago
Laws are as good as they are enforced. Look at speeding in a car. If you don't get caught, if everyone else is doing it and the few cops around aren't bothering to pull anyone over, it's still illegal. Yet it doesn't matter.
Or more comparable, someone of high importance is caught speeding, but when the cop sees who it is they let them go with a "warning", i.e. do nothing. Still illegal, but okay for them to do apparently.
isleepinahammock@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 weeks ago
This isn’t an enforcement problem. What Trump is doing isn’t illegal and it shouldn’t be illegal. There’s nothing wrong with running for office promising to pass legislation establishing a government program if your side wins. You’re arguing for a standard that would have made it impossible to create Medicare, Social Security, or any other government program. Those all started as promises of, “if my side wins, we’ll pass a law giving people money.”
Rhaedas@fedia.io 2 weeks ago
I see your point. If he was arguing for a law or program. Saying everyone get a check without anything more isn't the same. For one, it isn't going to happen because it would need legislation, which means a bill and a plan to fund it. And it's Trump, so it's not going to happen because he just says things.
Now if he said he's going to propose and make Congress pass a law that gives every adult $1000 each month that is funded through tax increases on higher brackets... suddenly he's pushing for UBI, and that's a great idea. (or the start of one, I think it needs to be more complex than that for cost of living variations)
Steve@communick.news 2 weeks ago
They’re two very different things.
In one case you’re handing people real money on the street for their vote.
In the other your making a “campaign promise” that everyone knows isn’t actually real.MarieMarion@literature.cafe 2 weeks ago
Question from far away: do even the basic, illiterate, red-capped MAGAts not believe it? Or is the fanbase waiting for its manna?
Steve@communick.news 2 weeks ago
Believe it truly literally? No
It’s a concept known as Kayfabe. A special kind of pretending, where both performer and audience act as if something is real, when both know it isn’t. It started with American professional wrestling. Wrestlers would greet fans after the show and sign autographs as their characters, not as themselves.
So no, even his MAGA supporters don’t literally believe he’ll give them $5k, they just accept is as a promise that he and the republican will do good things for them generally. They like the sound of it, even though they know it’s not real.
Murse@slrpnk.net 2 weeks ago
I think they know Trump is full of shit, they just don’t care so long as he’s ‘hurting the right people’.
They’d let Trump shit in their mouth if it meant a ‘librul’ would have to smell it.
0x0@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
It’s not a campaign promise. He’s already elected!
Steve@communick.news 2 weeks ago
He’s campaigning for the Republicans generally during this midterm Republican “convention”.
Campaigning for ones-self isn’t the only time or way to campaign.
tired_n_bored@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I hate the orange turd but your comparison is not 100% right. He’d gift 5000$ to everyone, not just who voted for him. I think that’s still illegal tho
DrQuickbeam@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
It’s not illegal. He gave out those COVID dividend checks and it was the most popular thing he’s ever done. It’s just a gross incentive for votes. The government needs that money for governance activities. It’s like ripping the bathtub out of someone’s house and gifting it to them “for free!”
DrQuickbeam@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I mean it’s probably not typically allowed under any normal laws and regulations, but they can always find a loop hole to do something like that in a legalish manner (like under a state of emergency, or with an executive order SCOTUS upholds, or hijacking a program meant for something else).
TheNextMuon@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I hate the orange turd and your observation is about 100% wrong. He will not pay anyone. He will keep the money himself.
tired_n_bored@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I didn’t mean he’d give a dime to anybody given the fact that he’s a pathological liar but he didn’t say “I will give 5000$ to those who vote for me” but “I will give 5000$ to everyone”
RandomHugs@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I mean, There’s also the more direct approach if one wants to give out bribes in return for votes… Remember this? Tell me more about how amazing and just the Western Democracy is.
Formfiller@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
He’s been doing multiple crimes a day for most of his life. The thing about a “law” is that unless it’s enforced it doesn’t mean shit
Kolanaki@pawb.social 2 weeks ago
It’s still illegal; it’s just that nobody will enforce the law against the orange bastard. The motherfucker was literally convicted of 34 felonies and hasn’t paid any fines or faced a minute of jail time, FFS.
kkj@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
He had a whole goddamn sentencing hearing where they sentenced him to nothing. Explicitly.
FiniteBanjo@feddit.online 2 weeks ago
Was it illegal for Bernie Sanders to campaign on free medical and college?
Rather than tilt and rave let’s approach this from another angle: Trump promised funds from DOGE and balanced budgets on multiple occasions and you’re never going to see any of it. He is a liar.
Kolanaki@pawb.social 2 weeks ago
No because that would have been done through normal policy change and actually a thing an elected official should try and do. What Trump is doing (even if it is a lie) is bribery. It’s not even remotely the same, and it speaks volumes of your character that you would even try and equate them.
the_q@piefed.social 2 weeks ago
What a moronic take. Line genuinely.
spankysalmon@fedinsfw.app 2 weeks ago
rofl imagine being the fucking clown pretending free medicsl and college would be a bad thing.
Again: Fucking. Clown.