Let's say hypothetically I wanted to leave the US permanently;

Submitted ⁨⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago⁩ by ⁨SippyCup@lemmy.world⁩ to ⁨[deleted]⁩

I am a tradesman with a lot of technical skills with some specialized skills in short supply (at least in the US) with a little less than a decade of experience. My partner is a skilled social worker with more than a decade of experience.

We cannot afford a golden visa in any country.

We are at least 3rd generation Americans, and do not have the right to claim citizenship in any other country without going through the immigration and naturalization process there.

Neither of us is very good at picking up a new language (lord how I’ve tried)

Where could we realistically look to go?

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neidu3@sh.itjust.works ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Most Americans I know who moved here (Norway) did so after landing a job that they moved here for. Moving here and then trying to find a job is a great method for going broke in a couple of weeks.

Plus, lining up a job beforehand makes the visa ordeal easy.

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- cabbage@piefed.social ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  To find jobs in Norway, try searching for the word “jobbportal”. At least some of these sites allow you to sort for English language jobs.
  
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  - thatradomguy@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    Thank you
    
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- MedicPigBabySaver@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  Can I just marry my 3rd cousin? Ha.
  
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  - DeathByBigSad@sh.itjust.works ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    I don’t think you can just randomly marry someone, you have to be actually in love, nor just marrying for the sake of immigration benefits, like they actually investigate if your marriage is legitimate.
    
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N0t_5ure@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Picking up a new language is much easier if you use the Comprehensible Input method, which is fun and easy. It’s essentially learning language like a child learns. You watch videos that are 100% in the target language. In the beginning, they are super easy, with lots of props, gestures, and other context that helps convey the meaning of the words. As you pick up more and more, you watch more difficult videos. It’s amazing how fast you pick up the new language. In about 3 months I learned enough Spanish to give me around 80%+ comprehension of normal conversation, and better comprehension if the person spoke slowly and clearly. Don’t count out learning a new language, as it is a lot easier than you might think if your only experience is with traditional methods.

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- Lemming6969@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  Most languages have zero resources for comprehensible input.
  
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  - N0t_5ure@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    Children’s television programming geared towards young children (e.g., Bluey, Peppa Pig, etc.) can fill this gap, and are widely used as comprehensible input content by adult language learners.
    
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  - blarghly@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    Really? No one is making vids in simple norwegian and throwing them up on YT for the ad revenue?
    
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AlternatePersonMan@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
You could always start by teaching English in another country. I recall that it pays quite well and is in demand in many countries. The requirements are also very low.

As for learning another language. You get better at it when you’re around it constantly.

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- CultLeader4Hire@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  This is probably the best option for the social worker partner since social work is largely about knowing the laws and culture which you won’t know as an immigrant
  
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Evil_Incarnate@sopuli.xyz ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
If you can get an employer to sponsor you, Europe is nice. In the Nordics if you stick to a capital city, you should have no problem using english for almost anything, and for everything else, there are translation apps.

A social worker would probably have to learn the local language anywhere they go, it’s a less transferable profession imo.

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- Dojan@pawb.social ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  You’d make it more or less anywhere. At least here in Sweden, English has been a core subject since 1952/1953. That’s over 70 years of mandatory English education.
  
  Some people struggle a little because they never used it, but as a foreigner, usually you end up struggling to speak anything but English. Lots of immigrants complain that they can’t learn Swedish because the moment someone clocks that they’re not a native speaker, they switch to English.
  
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  - watson387@sopuli.xyz ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    lol That would definitely make it hard to learn.
    
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HobbitFoot@thelemmy.club ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Australia and New Zealand have a points based immigration system that you can check online. That would be the first place I’d look.

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- Miarolitic@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  Australia also needs trades people and has a list of jobs with scarce skills. Check the list and see if your occupation is on it.
  
  immi.homeaffairs.gov.au/…/skill-occupation-list
  
  If your trade is on the list you can easily get a company sponsored visa to Australia. This is a good pathway to Australian permanent residence and citizenship.
  
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  - Miarolitic@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    P.S. I know many people who have done this. In the mining industry, the company moves your stuff and usually pays for about 3 months of accommodation so you have time to find your bearings.
    
    The company will bring you over on a long stay work visa which allows you to apply for permanent residence.
    
    There are then two options, you can go with a company sponsored permanent residence or an independent permanent residence visa.
    
    I personally have done the latter path. When I was on the work visa my company paid my health insurance and moving costs. The process of immigrating to Australia was very easy but a lot of paperwork.
    
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Zwuzelmaus@feddit.org ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

without going through the immigration and naturalization process there.

But why do you want it all without normal processes?

You say you are the most normal American. So the normal way is the way for you.

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- Rhynoplaz@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  That’s not what they said. You ignored the beginning of the sentence.
  
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- greyscale@lemmy.grey.ooo ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  Its because their concept of immigration is sitting in Mexico waiting for 20 years to be allowed into the US finally.
  
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  - DeathByBigSad@sh.itjust.works ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    
    We are at least 3rd generation Americans, and do not have the right to claim citizenship in any other country without going through the immigration and naturalization process there.
    
    I read this as “We’d have to go through a lengthy bureaucratic process since we do not have citizenship claims anywhere else, so given this fact, how should I go about moving abroad?”
    
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agentTeiko@piefed.social ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
I mean the first step is just getting a job offer in any country you go to. Then you just go through the immigration process. Expected to have about 30k on hand to help with the immigration process. There are also a lot of Expat services that help walk you through the process. Just have to search expat and the location you want.

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fubarx@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Canadian ‘Express Entry’ program for those with Skilled Trades: www.canada.ca/en/…/federal-skilled-trades.html

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- Vex_Detrause@lemmy.ca ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  As a social worker your wife will find a job so quickly.
  
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rosco385@lemmy.wtf ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Australia publishes a skilled occupation list. If you have the skills needed, there is a pathway to permanent residency or citizenship.

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- jaschen306@sh.itjust.works ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  Unless you’re 45 or older. They don’t want older people
  
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jeffep@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
I think this is both easy on the sense that there are a lot of feasible options, and difficult in the sense of selecting the most suitable one for you. English alone opens up many places to you. But besides language, culture is a major factor. I remember a story about immigrants in Finland feeling excluded and had difficulties building social relationships. But in Finland, even the locals don’t have so many local friends. So, the way of life is just not suitable to many.

Other than that, try to see this not only as a negative thing, but also as an opportunity. Don’t just ask where you would do okay, but include questions like where you would feel comfortable.

Final thought: often the “most popular option” is not necessarily the best. In Europe, many countries that are not Germany or France are nice, sometimes the QoL is even higher. So, consider Austria besides Germany, for example.

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redsand@infosec.pub ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
No one has mentioned it but lots of countries you can get Visas with the puchase of land usually needs to be worth more than 200k but if you can get a loan or have the cash it’s an option

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- tamal3@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  What countries? I think Mexico is one.
  
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bitofarambler@crazypeople.online ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Hey there, I’ve been living abroad outside the US(my birth country) for about 15 years. If you guys don’t mind teaching English, you have a guaranteed job on or offline that’ll pay for a comfortable life. Rent/utilities/wifi/data/groceries can be had for about $500 in most countries, probably $800 for a couple, about $1000-$1400 in the housing-crisis countries.

Depending on your comfort level with traveling, it might be easy to start in Central or South America since it’s close, tickets are cheap and the language won’t throw you as much. As US citizens you have visa free or VOA in 180ish countries, so you can fly there as soon as you get the ticket.

South East Asia is also wonderful, and many people live there traveling from one country to the next every 3-6 months. A few countries have cheap digital nomad visas, but I find it much easier to move at the end of my visa time or do a visa run, where you leave the country briefly and then return, like taking a ferry from Thailand to Myanmar and back. Or visiting Cambodia for a week and then flying back.

You have many, many, options as a traveler, you don’t really have to worry about learning a new language although you’ll get along and probably feel more comfortable in new countries if you learn the basics.

Go check out the Travel community, the sidebar FAQs, many of the community posts go into a lot more detail and if you have any questions, reach out to me. I’m still living abroad right now and am happy to answer all your questions.

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zlatiah@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Not technically an American but lived in America for a long time, also not eligible to claim citizenship anywhere. I hope I’d be somewhat qualified to speak on this

There really aren’t that many countries which are a step up for an American IMO. Probably a good number of the EU/EEA countries, places like Canada/Australia/NZ, and mayyybe places like Singapore and a few more… Fewer if you have a strict limit on English, in that case maybe only places like UK & the Nordic countries; maybe also the Netherlands, but I’ve heard mixed information about language requirements there. This is a pretty short list, so I think you could probably have a passing knowledge of all of their basic immigration processes without spending that much time on it. But yeah you are right, for any expat/immigrant wannabe it usually goes like this:

Winning the “life lottery” (ancestry, asylum, or a literal lottery like the US) -> “Buying” your way in via Golden visa -> Love knows no borders so marriage -> Workers visa, aka getting sponsored to work

The first three obviously don’t apply to you or me TBH, so work sponsorship it is: either international transfer via a large international company (does that happen often for trades people?), or finding a job in your target country. I think others have mentioned this, but since you will likely be immigrating via work, secure a job first. Don’t even think about anything else without a solid job offer. I didn’t follow this advice myself and literally got screwed; I spent several hours learning German everyday during a really busy time of my life, wrecked my mental health along the way due to stress, and never ended up finding a job in Germany in the end… Don’t be like past me

tradesman with a lot of technical skills with some specialized skills in short supply

Probably your biggest asset. Some countries like Canada and Australia/NZ publish their skill shortages, so if your skills are on them you’d be in very good luck. There are subreddits and discussion groups on these topics so I’d look into them

Note that in Australia, allegedly the real job shortage can be quite different from the published list. This doesn’t hurt your chances of moving there per-se, but can make your life difficult after moving in, especially if you don’t have a large amount of savings

Also, I’m not sure exactly what trades you are in (for the sake of privacy I prefer not to ask), but different countries may have different regulations. It is possible that you may not be allowed to work in the EU without local certifications for example. I don’t think it is an impasse per-se, but I’d definitely investigate this beforehand

But anyways, if you are interested why not try and apply for a few jobs first? You never know :D

Neither of us is very good at picking up a new language (lord how I’ve tried)

To be honest… that doesn’t sound very good. Comes without saying that most places expect workers to speak fluently or at least B1 in their native language (which is also required for immigration purposes for most countries), and the English-friendly places (such as Ireland) can have extremely high demand, which can cause other societal complications

I am taking what you said at face value, since I have seen first-hand how much my boss (German) struggled with learning French and had to settle for learning Dutch instead lol. Nevertheless, for most people it isn’t that hard to at least get a passing conversation skill level in a target language in a few years especially with full immersion & government/employer-sponsored language classes, so I wouldn’t completely rule it out just yet! If you’re able to deal with other languages, there are lots of EU countries that have plenty of opportunities; maybe even some more developed parts of Africa would do as well

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- corsicanguppy@lemmy.ca ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  
  I didn’t follow this advice myself and literally got screwed
  
  literally got screwed
  
  Casting couches, am I right ?
  
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HubertManne@piefed.social ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
yeah. hypothetically.

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scytale@piefed.zip ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Make a list of countries that speak English or at least allow you to get by with speaking only English. Then look up their work visa categories and see if your skills fall into any of those categories. Once you narrow that down further, check if they allow working holiday visas, where you can fly in for a limited amount of time to look for a job. If there’s no such option, you’ll have to remotely apply for a job that is willing to sponsor your work visa so you can move there. You can also do try countries with digital nomad visas, but that’s temporary and you’ll have to leave and go back every couple of weeks/months or so.

Another option is a student visa, if you are willing to go back to school and can afford the tuition.

Those are pretty much your only options aside from marriage or asylum.

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BlackLaZoR@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
IMO go for UK. Same language and pretty loose immigration requirements.

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- BigTwerp@feddit.uk ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  Lol, I’m from the UK and employ quite a few overseas people. Immigration requirements are categorically not ‘loose’.
  
  A properly qualified social worker might actually have a chance of being on the occupational shortage list but I can’t think of any trades where and employer would be able to prove they need to hire from abroad and be willing to sponsor the employee.
  
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  - BlackLaZoR@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    AFAIK UK had largest increase of immigration after Brexit since decades. How come?
    
    statista.com/…/net-migration-figures-of-the-unite…
    
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Siegfried@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Most countries that you would probably label as “acceptable”, will accept you without any problem as an US citizen provided that you get a stable job.

It’s that easy.

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- Tollana1234567@lemmy.today ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  the problem is getting a place to stay, a bank to transfer funds from america,etc.
  
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CallMeAl@piefed.zip ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
If you have skills that are in demand in a particular country then there will be a path to residency and possibly citizenship. Many trades are in demand in many places. In some places the demand is so high you can get by speaking English. There may even be incentives offered to people with qualifying skills to move there, like low or no income tax.

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pewgar_seemsimandroid@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
what languages do you know?

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Fizz@lemmy.nz ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
There are a ton of countries who would take you. Pick your top 5 and apply.

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thatradomguy@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
What I’m always wondering is how I realistically manage to still keep my money in the bank without losing access whilst in another country? Also what about my retirement? It’s like a grave fear of mine to lose my life’s savings just because I can’t prove I still live in the US.

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- Bloodyhog@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  Just talk to your bank, you are not alone in this situation! If the deposit is sizeable enough, they will transfer your account to their international operation. If not - why do you even care? Just take it out as cash, or wire it to a bank in your new place.
  
  On the retirement savings - there is also a mechanism of transferring it to your new country of residence.
  
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Skullgrid@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
What languages can you speak?

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jenesaisquoi@feddit.org ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Canada

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