Submitted 8 hours ago by lystopad@mbin.twink.men to [deleted]
since kids aren't usually allowed to train with guns... were they all training with their parents before? or is it not that hard, so can any person with no expirience technically just pick up a gun and start shooting people?
(asking not 4 myself obvs, just out of curiosity)
I shot my first guns in kindergarten. My uncle’s handgun and my grandpa’s shotgun. Lived on the farm, it was just normal. But it was just in the farm, supervised of course. The moment my cousin and I were old enough we were in a firearms safety course so we could go hunting. Hell we used to help make ammo (just reloading shells).
Guns are really simple to use. Reloading for most guns people will ever encounter outside the military is simple. You got the safety switch and the trigger and it’s really point and click at that point. I tell you the hardest part is learning how to hold it correctly. We’ve all seen videos of people holding a gun wrong and shenanigans ensues when they lose control of it. imgur.com/gallery/shotgun-fail-odC6s
The most successful gun designs are those that could be put in the hands of teenagers to turn them into killing machines
They just aren’t that hard to use.
As Thelma says, “can’t be that hard, idiots use them all of the time”.
my friends and i played with guns as kids in a completely unsafe manner with no experience or instruction. chamber a round and pull the trigger. they’re designed to be simple
It takes real, practiced skill and/or quality equipment to hit a bullseye at long range, or to kill an armed opponent at short range quickly and cleanly enough to not give them the chance to shoot you back. It takes no skill to hit an undefended, person-sized object at <10 meters, the distances involved in most indoor locations.
since kids aren’t usually allowed to train with guns
What?
I went to a rural school, and everyone had a “hunters education” class in like 7th grade. We never touched a gun but we could legally go hunting.
A shit ton of kids hunt, and most ranges are fine with kids if an adult is with them too.
Like, it varies state to state, but in lots of areas it’s weird for someone to graduate highschool before shooting a gun.
But besides all that, guns aren’t difficult.
so can any person with no expirience technically just pick up a gun and start shooting people?
So yeah, pretty much.
I went to a rural school, and everyone had a “hunters education” class in like 7th grade. We never touched a gun but we could legally go hunting with a gun after.
That’s crazy. I had no idea anyone had a class like that. We’re basically training kids to be school shooters… at school?
You can’t expect parents to do everything.
Hunter’s ed is basically the opposite of what you stated. It’s not part of the state curriculum. It’s similar to drivers ed courses for people to be able to get a learners permit before they turn 18. Similarly below a certain ages, most states require completion of a hunter’s education course to be able to purchase a hunting license and legally hunt.
The courses go over topics like property rights, how to carry a weapon making sure it’s not pointing at anyone, what high vis clothing is required, always knowing what is behind an animal before even aiming, rules about how a weapon must be unloaded when in a vehicle, and they strongly urge keeping an interference lock in the action of any firearm in storage.
Hunter’s ed doesn’t teach kids how to shoot, they teach kids how to not be idiots when hunting.
Sounds like an elective class. My ex-wife’s niece was in an after-school shotgun club. I gather it was more target practice than hunting.
I’m of the opinion that familiarity with actually shooting is more of a deterrent to the school shooter mentality than fetishizing guns. I’m basing that mostly on the idea that these school shooters can’t seem to handle a weapon, given that kills are the goal.
As they said, you really dont need to know much to operate a semi automatic weapon. Everything you need to know is public knowledge that can be found on wikipedia, youtube, etc.
You dont need to be a very good shot if you shoot at 5m distance…
I learned how to shoot a shotgun when I was 13 at school. We were in the shooting club. It was just shotguns and skeet shooting, but still.
Even without much education, I was a geek in a rural location, one time a friend’s dad put a cigarette (half 3/4 done or so) on a fence cause we were having a competition and we hit them all. Mean the cigarette was only say 15 - 20 feet away but I I split it in half with a BB gun (yes no kick of course), probably luck but I was hitting the targets too and the dad figured no one would hit that one. It wasn’t a long range but I figure someone with access to a rifle should shoot fine enough if they practice even a bit if I can without access. I only shot a gun maybe a dozen times in total.
The hardest parts of gun use are aiming at long range and proper maintenance. Neither of those are a concern for someone planning to shoot at close range and not live another day.
Shooting is like driving a car. A baby could do it. Few can do it safely.
Using a gun is really easy. And I suspect school showers aren’t particularly concerned about safety, so that’s not an issue for them
The point of guns was to make warfare easier
It’s not like using a gun is hard.
I learned to shoot at Boy Scout camp when I was about 13. We shot .22 long rifle and 20 gauge shotguns. Many of my friends hunted (never appealed to me) and learned even earlier.
You can learn how to use almost any gun in about five minutes. Have a friend or family member that lets you take some practice shots in their backyard? Now you know enough to be dangerous.
Even without practice shots, every gun has the capacity to be dangerous no matter the extent of the users knowledge.
One might even say that a firearm becomes more dangerous in a less knowledgeable person’s hands.
I am from Croatia, we have 1 rifle at home (hunting) and as a child I remember we will sometimes put plastic bottle and aim for bottle, so I guess similar is in USA? In rural places specifically. Of course it was all done with multiple of adults nearby. But I was always bad at it, and I am still scared to go near guns (intrusive thoughts)
I’ve been shooting twice. From my experience it’s shockingly easy the only kinda complicated thing is loading it. I’m sure YouTube has guides on anything that might be complicated.
Kids know computers and just like guns it is a point and click interface
I heard they make them pretty simple now. Some are even just point and shoot /s
Not to blame video games but genuinely having never even held a real gun I could definitely work out how to operate one from the thousands of hours I have interacted with them digitally lol. They ultimately are designed ground up to be user friendly and simple. Yes I would be a terrible aim etc but still not the point, an idiot can still cause chaos.
This is the US we’re talking about, so there’s no shortage of guns or people willing to teach other people to use guns. Sure, I doubt an eight year old could rock up to the local range and lease a weapon, but… there’s always a crazy uncle. Besides that, there’s no shortage of instructional material to be found online and elsewhere. Guns are not particularly complicated devices. Fill magazine with ammunition, insert magazine, pull and release charging handle (or slide), disengage safety (if any), point and pull the trigger. It’s not particularly difficult. Hitting something is a different matter though.
I mean, I’m Danish, and guns are not exactly commonplace here, but I used to shoot pistols for sport in the indoor range beneath a local school starting when I was eleven.
Taught my kids the basics at 9 and 11. They need to understand the lethality of guns, what is safe and not safe, and maybe most importantly, how to recognize someone who is not being safe and get the hell away from them.
Plus, took the mystery out of the whole thing. Now they just don’t care much.
I mean, my dad took me hunting when I was young...
I knew how to operate a hunting rifle by the time I was 12, and I’m not even American.
And if you can operate a hunting rifle, you can operate an assault rifle to a reasonable degree. Not much training needed.
When I was in the army, ...
Consider, too, that the military needs every sack of meat to be able to shoot straight, load mags, clear malfunctions, clean and maintain. By extension, the light arms they use are designed to be as dead simple as possible.
As someone on reddit once pointed at, the AR-15 platform is designed such that the dumbest 18-yo recruit can use it.
1st time i have so many comments on a post... in an hour@
Learning the manual of arms (procedure of loading, firing, unloading a type of firearm) is a YouTube video away and isn’t hard. If you can use a drill or a stapler you can make a gun go bang.
The difficult part is technique that makes the bullets go where you want them to. Shooting fast is easy, just mag dump in a general direction and you’ll eventually hit something. Shooting slowly and accurately is way more effective. Basic marksmanship takes a bit of time to hone but anyone can do it, including you reading this.
But shooting fast AND accurate is a skill that takes consistent practice to hone. That’s what makes competitons like USPSA so challenging and the acting in movies like John Wick so impressive
It’s not like they’re complex devices to operate. and the internet has tons of resources.
Plenty of guides online but also it just isn’t that hard.
I’m actually for this. No, it shouldn’t be necessary, but it is and that’s that.
Taught my kids guns at 9 and 11. Took them out to our camp and shot a bunch of different .22s. Now instead of guns being these mysterious things “you should never touch”, well, they’ve touched and just aren’t really interested. LOL, that was 100% against my custody agreement, but I was terrified the kids would find someone’s gun one day and have Hollywood perceptions. Their mom didn’t say a word, which was really strange, so I believe she agrees.
One interesting thing I showed then was shooting an empty can with a .22. “See how that made a little hole of both sides? That’s what many people think guns do. But people are juicy, so it looks more like this.” They shit kittens when I shot a can full of water and it absolutely shredded. I think that was impactful. :)
I taught them never to pick up someone’s gun for the same reason even professionals won’t do so. “It’s not because I think you’re dumb kids, but you don’t know anything about that particular gun. What if there’s something wrong with it? How can you tell if it’s loaded? When you’re older, never accept a gun from a person who does not first clear it and show you the empty chamber. Even professionals do this. If they don’t practice this simple etiquette, they are not to be trusted and you need to get away, and stay away from that person.” Later overheard my son telling his big sis, in great detail and with great authority this rule.
Gonna suck when they’re teens. If they’re emotional wrecks like I was, they won’t see a gun in this house.
Glad to hear you doing this. My daughter refuses to learn, but I keep telling her it’s so when the dumb boy pulls out a gun at a party, she can ask to see it, and clear the chamber, take the clip, safe it, and hand it (minus the clip) back.
Hand guns are difficult to be accurate with if you’ve never shot one, and still not easy if you have. Nobody is going to fire one for the first time and be good at it, but within 10-15’ the difference is probably just if the shot was lethal or not. Anything with a longer barrel like a shotgun or rifle, as long as you’re pointing in the general direction it’s as simple as pulling the trigger. The recoil is easier to deal with and it’s easier to aim. Loading could take a second to figure out, but that’s something that can be worked out before ever pulling the trigger.
I think the fact that most school shootings don’t end up with dozens of kills is because it’s not super easy to be skilled with all aspects of a firearm, but it’s easy enough for quick damage.
YouTube videos?
count_dongulus@lemmy.world 40 minutes ago
It’s not exactly hard to operate a firearm. They are designed to be used by the lowest common denominator of person - total morons.
count_dongulus@lemmy.world 39 minutes ago
Or alternatively (historically), expendable peasants that you don’t want to finance painstaking archery training on.