What does it mean “as left as they come”? When you’re interested in profiting from current slave labour and future concentration camps.
Am I a bad person if (as left as they come) I invest in American Private Prison contractors on the assumption that Trump will go through with his deportation scheme at least to some extent?
Submitted 2 weeks ago by Adderbox76@lemmy.ca to [deleted]
Comments
bungalowtill@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
droporain@lemmynsfw.com 2 weeks ago
Lol your hands are stained dirty dark red buddy, how many of your tax dollars were used to kill and maim innocent lives?
breadsmasher@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
tell me, how can anyone decide where their taxes go?
scbasteve7@lemm.ee 2 weeks ago
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You don’t know where they live, or what their taxes fund or funded.
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Assuming they are American (which is what I’m assuming you’re assuming), the other option is prison.
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Goodmorningsunshine@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
You don’t understand how paying mandatory taxes you don’t dictate and investing voluntarily is different?
bungalowtill@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
yes, but I’m not investing in it. Get the difference?
scbasteve7@lemm.ee 2 weeks ago
“listen. I don’t WANT Hitler to commit mass genocide. But I am going to fund the company of the gas chambers he plans to use. Because I benefit from it”.
It’s not a one to one comparison but um. Yeah.
SkunkWorkz@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Buying stock is not funding the company though unless the company is issuing new stock. The company already took the cash during the IPO. The only thing buying shares does is affect the price. So it will make some evil shit stain wealthier.
olafurp@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
It’s a bit more nuanced. Buying the stock increases the stock price which makes issuing stock a better deal for the company in case they want to expand operations. It also makes stock buybacks less likely.
So if they issue stock OP is indirectly funding the company. If OP prevented a buyback and the money went into investments such as a new prison OP has an different effect. Otherwise there’s no effect.
psyklax@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
I was coming to say that also.
The stock market is nothing more than gambling on the public (rich people) sentiment about how well that company is going to do. It’s similar to how there is gambling on who will win the presidency, and does not affect the outcomes.
Buying stock is not investment, the money that the company recieves comes from issuing the stock. Your money does not fund the evil things that the company does, unless you are paying for goods/services from that company. But, I have seen that stock price influences the decisions of leadership inside the company. Your individual action will not influence the stock price.
BowtiesAreCool@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
“I’m not a Nazi”
Said the Nazi, investing in the German military. I’m a friend to the Jews! But I might as we’ll profit off of their incarceration and death, I mean, it’s happening anyway. It’s not like I could instead of thinking only for myself in this time possibly use some of this extra capital I happen to have available to invest and actually do some good with it, but nah.
SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 weeks ago
Yes.
Etterra@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Yes. Doing so makes you a hypocrite. Don’t worry through, there’s no shortage of hypocrisy in America. It’s practically a requirement to be at least unwittingly hypocritical. Just by drinking Coke or tipping a waiter you’re contributing to a broken system designed to exploit people for maximum profit.
But here’s the rub. You can’t, in any practical sense, escape that crap, however, you can choose to not deliberately contribute to stuff outside your immediate wheelhouse. It’s one thing to buy a chocolate bar out of a vending machine, but investing in Nestle? That’s a choice, and one you could have easily skipped. You could skip the candy too, but it’s very, very hard (and impractical) to refuse every corporate product ever. Everything, from the materials in your electronics to your mortgage company, to most food from lettuce to frozen chicken, exploits people. But you don’t have to voluntarily make the problem worse.
And on the sliding scale of morality, investing in slavery - in this case the prison industrial complex is just greed and indifference to the cost in human suffering. Seriously research it, slavery in all but name has been part of the plan since the Reconstruction era after the Civil War. We never had a justice system; we have a punishment system that hungers for the labor of the downtrodden, especially of minorities.
So if you want to at least try and be a better person, and investing is something you want to do, look into the companies you’re investing in. See what their executives are paid compared to their workers here and abroad. There are companies that you can ethically justify investing in - small companies, co-ops, credit unions, pro-union companies, companies actually trying to solve problems or make the world better, like solar manufacturing, etc.
If you want to invest in human suffering, then you’re going to have to make peace with being a bad person and being judged for it. I’d advise at least trying not to. It’s a hopeless battle, but fighting honorably is its own justification.
lando55@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
There are not enough hundred dollar bills in the world to wipe off the stench of being branded a doody-head by the fediverse.
Thank you for your well thought out response to what might otherwise be dismissed as a trolling attempt.
aesthelete@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Yes
b161@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 weeks ago
“As left as they come”.
Doubt.
HootinNHollerin@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Yes
rc__buggy@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
“Would I be a bad person if I loaned the neighborhood pusher some money to re-up his fentanyl package?”
Ep1cFac3pa1m@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
But the ROI is just too good!
sharkfucker420@lemmy.ml 2 weeks ago
Yes lmao
njm1314@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Of course.
ChronosTriggerWarning@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
“I’m just trying to monetize human suffering. Am i a bad person?”
Actually no, you’re not “bad.” You’ve gone so far past bad that bad is just a dot on the horizon in your rearview mirror.
iAmTheTot@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
Yes.
ilinamorato@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
So first, you need to know that the definition of “genocide” is larger than you probably think.
The 1948 Genocide Convention defines genocide as any of five “acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group”. The acts in question include killing members of the group, causing them serious bodily or mental harm, imposing living conditions intended to destroy the group, preventing births, and forcibly transferring children out of the group.
Emphasis mine.
Second, hastily-built private prisons constructed for the purpose of keeping a group that has committed no crime in one place long enough to “dispose of” them? They also have a technical term: a concentration camp. If they’re also performing work, they’re a labor camp.
So what Trump wants to do with Latiné folks is a form of genocide.
Third, there are multiple levels of supporting a genocide, from being a member of the society that created the out-group, all the way up through pulling people from that out-group from their homes. Somewhere in the middle of that list is “voluntarily providing aid to those committing the genocide.”
Fourth, each level of support bears a different culpability, and each individual within the levels bears a different culpability based on their knowledge and understanding of what’s happening, their intentional decision to participate or not, and the amount of protest they raise at the treatment of the out-group.
So, knowing all of this, where would you put such a decision?
IDKWhatUsernametoPutHereLolol@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
There are other investments that are less… morally questionable…
Like, even investing in real estate is still less morally wrong than literal prison labor.
VeganCheesecake@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 weeks ago
Yes. Regardless of the second part. Don’t invest in private prisons, even if it’s sums that would seem inconsequential to the industry as a whole.
GissaMittJobb@lemmy.ml 2 weeks ago
Don’t do it, friend.
The better investment generally is to invest in index funds anyways, which makes your hands at least a little bit cleaner.
xmunk@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
I don’t think so - the stock market is extremely detached from fundraising in the modern world and if that company decided to fundraise it’ll mostly do so on the back of mutual funds and uni endowments.
I personally find divestment is a pretty ineffective personal action in terms of individuals.
sharkfucker420@lemmy.ml 2 weeks ago
You are benefitting from incarceration and forced labor
xmunk@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
The stock market is so detached from reality that the impact you’re having is nearly nil. You’re much more directly supporting forced labor and incarceration when you buy a t-shirt, Chinese garlic, register your car, eat pretty much any fast food, enjoy chocolate, or do literally anything connected to Walmart.
My point in the comment above is that Divestment (outside of retail investment) has almost no impact. If you live in America you’re already evil as fuck and profiting from the misery of millions. The stocks you own are some of the least evil shit you’re doing.
inclementimmigrant@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
So is every other American.
schwoens@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 weeks ago
I’m a bit confused as to why you would have to ask this if you truly are “as left as they come” but… yes of course??
Dorkyd68@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Fuck it, imma say it. Some questions are hella stupid
Noel_Skum@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
Needed to be said. I honestly thought I was in Onion territory at first…
Noel_Skum@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
Apparently the left stops somewhere about right of centre - what a quaint political system the US has.
Mango@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Yes. Bad.
hypeerror@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
Do you remember the part in Schindler’s list where his factory’s weapons and ammo were all out of spec and couldn’t be used?
foggy@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Depends on how much you’re investing. Is it an amount that is not a drop in their bucket? Congrats, you’re evil.
Is it chump change to any millionaire? Don’t sweat it. You’re literally incapable of changing the course with your buy in.
Buffalobuffalo@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
Short freedom
kitnaht@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I think you’d be awfully surprised calling yourself “as left as they come” on here. There are some people who are so far out in left field that they come back around on the right again.
OprahsedCreature@lemmy.ml 2 weeks ago
There are some people who are so far out in left field that they come back around on the right again.
Hi there! Did you know that horseshoe theory is complete and utter bullshit? A quick perusal of even Wikipedia will quickly inform the uninformed.
kitnaht@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
You should read your own suggestion there bub.
Dead_or_Alive@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
If you think you see an opportunity go ahead and invest and don’t feel ashamed. Many of the Hispanic immigrant communities that will adversely be affected by mass deportation had high levels of Trump support.
I say fuck it and make a buck. May those who voted for Trump get exactly what they voted for.
Phen@lemmy.eco.br 2 weeks ago
The world won’t be any better if you don’t. The only difference is what you’d feel about it yourself.
alquicksilver@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Anyone voluntarily participating in the US for-profit prison system is, almost assuredly, a problematic person with questionable morals.
It’s literally making money off of slavery. If you would not be proud to call yourself a slave-owner, I’d hope you would also not be proud to invest in slavery.
Royal “you,” by the way. Not OP, specifically.
Lauchs@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
In a culture where almost everyone is wearing clothes made by children working 14 hour days who occasionally burn to death because fire exits would cost too much, this seems to me, an odd line to draw.
Might just be me but I’m not sure I see much of a difference between slave investor and wearing slave labour.
Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I think the difference is, you can CHOOSE not to invest in slave labor. If 100% of the clothes are made by slave labor, what are the other options? Be naked? You’ll get arrested, and now by US law, YOU’RE the slave labor.
Whereas nothing is forcing you to invest in slavery.
alquicksilver@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I don’t disagree with you that slave labor is bad regardless of who, what, where, how. I disagree, however, that there’s not much difference between purchasing products you need and investing in a business.
Some folks can’t afford anything except cheap clothing/household goods from overseas, where they are often made in sweatshops with slave and/or child labor; it’s not their fault that they can’t afford to purchase ethical products. No one needs to invest in a business, though, so choosing to invest in one that deals in slavery is that investor’s fault.
For those of us who can afford ethically-sourced/made items, though, I agree that it’s quite similar. I have no excuses other than people are, as a whole, not good to each other. :(
Grimy@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Huge difference between not being able to afford the right thing, and being able to afford the right thing and instead investing in the really bad thing.
Kind of like how I have to gas up but I would never invest in the oil industry.
IDKWhatUsernametoPutHereLolol@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
Difference is, if you invest in Apple and find out they use slave labor, you are still primarily investing in a phone production industry. Investing in prison labor is just that, slave labor. A phone company can eventually stop using slave labor, but prison labor is always slave labor.
Kolanaki@yiffit.net 2 weeks ago
There is no ethical consumption under capitalism.
Lauchs@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
*yawn
phoenixz@lemmy.ca 2 weeks ago
Orlly now?
Yeah, there are a lot of big cheaters right nowz doesn’t mean All of it is