Submitted 3 months ago by nicknonya@lemmy.blahaj.zone to science_memes@mander.xyz
https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/pictrs/image/452b0d95-7570-4a6c-adb1-88efa5c9465b.webp
like you go to the not-believing-until-seeing convention with lies and what? expect to get away with it?
My father in law (prior to his passing) worked for the National Science Foundation and his job was to investigate grant fraud like this. Apparently it happens all the time.
Bo’'om left is a great reaction image
Fuck capitalism!
We need housing and food for everyone, then we can all chill out and focus on advancing further.
This hamster wheel of shit is going to kill us all.
but think of the bajilionaires! how will they afford their yachts without stealing value from people!?
With their bootstraps! And hustle! And so much work that they do 10 days a week!
Before I decide you’re cool or not you have to pass a test.
How do you feel about NATO?
Not the person you asked but I’m interested if I’m passing the vibe check
I hate that NATO exists, but I see that it has currently a purpose because other forces would and did overpower countries that aren’t included in a military alliance with mutual support obligations.
I want NATO to be a thing of the past as soon as possible but that doesn’t mean dismantle it and be helpless again. It means we need to get rid of the need for a NATO.
Based. We need more NATO members, except Turkey cause fuck Turkey trade them for the Armenians. I also aint much of a fan of Hungary.
Simple - does anything threaten the housing and food? If yes, can NATO stop it? If yes, then yay NATO. Any other case? No thank you.
Demilitarizing the world won’t happen in a night, but we all know NATO won’t agree to it, so it will have to go eventually.
Uhhh… how will you get that food into childrens mouths before it spoils? how will you store it?
Dignified?
There is a housing crisis in every developed country, millions of people are homeless while there are multiple times more empty units just because ‘investments’.
Where is dignity in that?
And for food, we need to support local produce, ideally something like hydroponics, so we can sustain everyone for as little work as possible, leaving the option to pursue better options at their leisure.
Because some people just treat it like a silicon valley start-up: say you’ve got results from your smoke and mirror show and then hope someone actually gets the results.
These are fantastic documentaries BTW, highly recommend if you liked Mayday, NOVA, Life, or any long form investigative journalism.
Good ol" BobbyB does not miss, thank the gods. Memes aside, his work is indeed phenomenal.
Money corrupts absolutely everything: science, politics, people…
I don’t fully understand the field of course, but I appreciate this comment FWIW.
From the outside it’s not obvious how many variables influence scientific research that have absolutely nothing to do with science or the pursuit of knowledge and truth.
Being scientifically literate is insufficient. We must also be highly sceptical and apply critical thinking to the work of other scientists, particularly when large sums of money are involved and the inevitable conflicts of interest that entails.
People with money are able to fund research but they will never be scientists because they are only interested in what is true to the extent it will make money.
This kind of behavior would still exist without money. People would still fake stuff for the clout.
Sure but money motivates more people than clout alone
Nah. Money is simply the mechanism that reveals true character.
Wow, that’s a crock of shit, classist take
That is absolute nonsense. Where does the idea that the nastiest expression of desires is the truest come from? It’s a completely absurd and unverifiable idea.
People do stuff, putting people in power over others tends to result in the people doing worse stuff. The variable we can tweak here is the power.
I mean, science doesn’t pay for itself. You need libraries, you need universities, you need equipment. Only a mathematician can get by with a $5 black board and stack of chalk, and even then not very well.
And he needs a calculator, because without one he isn’t going to be very fast with his research.
I mean thats pretty out-right fraud, but plenty of scientific fraud is more… idk if I would say nefarious, but certainly as damaging. There is so much pressure to get “certain” results. Its much much more work to detect either intentional or “self-delusioned” statistical fraud. Science is already incredibly difficult when you don’t have the pressure on you to generate specific results.
In Paleoanthropology these days, you will not find an article about a hominid fossil discovery that doesn’t include some variant of the phrase “forcing Anthropologists to rethink their assumptions”. This all derives from the “Lucy” find that truly did force Anthropologists to rethink their assumptions. Before Lucy, it was assumed that the two most unique aspects of humans - our big brains and our bipedal locomotion - evolved together, but the fact that the 3.9 myo Lucy (since revised to 3.3 myo) was fully bipedal despite having a chimpanzee-sized brain threw this assumption out the window. The career successes of her discoverers and analysts prompted everyone else who finds a bit of thigh bone to make similar claims of significance, despite the fact that no other discovery has had any real earth-shattering significance like that.
No fraud but just massive overstating of importance.
“tRuSt tHe sCieNCe!”
This is a joke of course…well kinda. When science is done well it can change the world. Who would be against that?
I don’t like the phrase because while the process of science seeks to be as factual and unbiased as possible those in the scientific community are still human. They are fallible, corruptible and can do things for their own personal gain or profit. So to me it could mistakenly misunderstood as “trust science blindly”
But “Trust the science that is validated by multiple reputable sources” just doesn’t roll off the tongue as nicely
Trust the process maybe? This post is about the process of science correcting errors after all.
I agree, that phrase seems to be a little misleading with the “trust in God” crowd because to them, that is the ultimate answer, and no other answer would come close to being “right”. But “trust the science” is not meant to be the ultimate answer, just a sign pointing you in the right direction, so that you can then check the science to see if it’s reliable. So, the science that you’re trusting is not theirs, but yours.
"We did our research!"
you can then check the science
Me and what degree? Science is so far beyond what I can understand without spending years of my life studying a single topic that I, and generalizing to we, need to take things on faith as much as anyone in a church.
Actually it’s more on faith than in a church because anyone can pray and see what that results in.
Anyone have the Patron?
It really is incredible that we have a way now to fund the jobs that can only be created and performed by a select few individuals. We don’t need a corporation to create the job for us, someone with a specific skill shows up and society says “yeah we need one of those.”
Somebody gonna tell her that she’s famous AF on Lemmy? 🙇🏽♂️🔥
Anyone have the Patrone?
That photo of Richard Eckert looks like the Leo reaction image; like he’s thinking ‘Oh my God I can’t believe they’re still buying this shit!’
I thought that so much I took a screen to post to comments. I’m glad I found your comment here. His expression is part smug, part guilt, part wainker.
I’ll never forgive him for what happened at Black Mesa.
I’d say there are three pieces, each feeding into the next.
At every step, the incentives involved in the production of science are, ironically, rewarding un-scientific behaviour and ignoring – if not outright punishing – actual science. Until replication is seen as an equal to novelty, this regime will persist.
Yeah, if you’re foolish enough to go into research, you still have to pay rent.
The thing that gets me is that these people are all really smart. If someone is willing to lie and do math, why not work at an unscrupulous pharma/finance company? They’d make way more money and do way less work. I’d even argue that fraud in the private sector is less unethical - if investors give money to a fraud they deserve to lose it, and regulators take an adversarial stance and have whole orgs (in theory) policing fraud like the SEC and FDA.
It takes a really particular kind of scumbag to seek a position of public trust, make a bunch of trainees financially and professionally dependent on them, accept money intended to help cancer patients, then commit fraud.
Very few people start with big transgressions. Usually stuff escalates.
It’s why need systems that don’t put humans in situations where bad behaviour is incentivised. Also why we need to be forgiving when someone comes forward with a small transgression, so people don’t get stuck in escalating cycles.
I’m sure this guy did some solid research once upon a time.
I don’t know about this specific case, but it’s common for the big name researchers not to do any actual research or play any direct part in generating their images. That’s often done by kids - 25 year old grad students, even 20 year old undergrads - or other trainees. Those people may not appreciate how easy it is to detect image manipulation and are still learning what kinds of ‘refining’ of imagery and datasets is acceptable, while the PI that pays their stipend or sponsors their visa rages at their inability to get an expected outcome or replicate a previous result.
Not saying there aren’t people out there just flat-out frauding, but these are group projects with a structure of trust and pressure that can muddy assignment of culpability. Like any committee or corporate action, it can be tough to say that any one individual is the guilty party or which people where just going along with the group.
I don’t think it is a “and then commit fraud”. They only got caught for the recent stuff.
Oftentimes payed by insurance companies or have other financial intrests
Pretty simple reason. Money.
This reminds me of der rote liste, the big directory of all pharmaceutical drugs. during the 90s I read the details of ~200 drugs and concluded that maybe 1/50 are truly beneficial.
The amount of grands they get is enough to understand how one might be inclined to continue/prolong the research project they are doing. On the other hand there is the sunk cost fallacy. They spend all this time and effort on a research subject basically staking their whole carriers on it being right or giving results and they can’t give up. I’m guessing most is doing it because of the sunk cost fallacy.
Daniel Suelo should do science
Lemminary@lemmy.world 3 months ago
I used to follow her on Twitter. She’d be constantly berated by some guy in France. Like, dude, if you’re arguing with a buster because she combed through your shit and found louse, you’ve lost twice this game.
needthosepylons@lemmy.world 3 months ago
Not any guy, our very own Didier Raoult. Unethical, gross, money hoarding, conspirationist and overall public danger Didier Raoult.