Comment on type shit
homes@piefed.world 6 months ago
if you lost a whole inch from your circumcision, they did it wrong.
that said, when I was around 18 or so, I really had it out with my parents over circumcising me. at 47, I’m still unhappy about it.
I didn’t even know I was circumcised at birth until like halfway through highschool and I didn’t really care after finding out. And having now seen penises that are uncircumcised, I’m kinda glad I was. From my perspective, it didn’t hurt and I didn’t even know until now. Everything works perfectly normally.
All of that was a buildup to a genuine question of why do you feel so upset by it? I don’t mean to be argumentative or dismissive, just want to see the point of view from someone else
we all have our own feelings about it. I’m not trying to say that the way you feel about your own circumcision is right or wrong, or how any man who decides - on their own, as an informed adult - is right or wrong to do so.
but would argue that it is an adult man’s decision to make, not a parent’s decision to make for their infant son– unless some medical condition makes it necessary to do so at that time. and, yes, I understand that there are religious considerations, but, as an atheist, I’m not so sympathetic to that, either, as I classify all genital mutilation in the same category, regardless of age or gender.
As someone who was circumcised for the ‘medical hygiene’ reasons when it was more popular I am sick and tired of seeing all circumcision lumped together as mutilation. Sure it was probably unnecessary as I am not aware of having a condition that made it necessary in my case, but it was well done and everything has been positive for me. Those that get it done for medical reasons being called mutilation would be offensive.
It certainly should end as a practice, especially as a religious practice done by non-medically trained people, but stigmatizing people who had it done as being mutilated is insulting.
Circumcision is and should only be a medically necessary procedure. I’ve never heard anyone say medically necessary circumcision is mutilation, but I’m from Europe where most men aren’t circumcised, so there’s that. Whoever says it’s mutilation when it’s medically justified is ignorant.
Even if it was ‘well done’, you have literally lost nerves and sensitivity in the region leading to an objectively worse experience.
The solution is obvious, don’t chop kids genitals for no legitimate reason. Doesn’t matter if you came out okay or whatever nonsense.
I am sick and tired of seeing all circumcision lumped together as mutilation
it’s the definition of the word. sure, it carries a lot of negative connotations that may not have affected you the same way, and you may have, personally, appreciated your circumcision, but that doesn’t invalidate the feelings of others. this isn’t some zero-sum situation where other people being upset about it somehow invalidated your experience.
Many people can feel different ways about things. That’s called society. A key part of civilization is our ability to all live together with many different people feeling different ways about things. In fact, a huge advance in civilization - no shit - is that, several thousand years ago, we stop killing each other over this very issue. REALLY.
In a much more contemporary context, it’s just not necessary. Most recently, as recently as the late 1970s and early 1980s, a now-debunked study pushed the idea that it was, at least “more hygienic” to circumcise males, but that was based on shaky and now-debunked studies. In modern medicine, circumcision is no longer recommended at birth except in rare cases of medical necessity of urinary or other birth defects. Exceptions also exist in some religions, Judaism most prominently, not for medical necessity, but as an alignment with a belief based on ancient mythology, not unlike the genital mutilations some women undergo in Islam.
Those that get it done for medical reasons being called mutilation would be offensive.
Right, because they weren’t mutilated, they had to have a procedure done for a medical reason.
Any non-medically necessary surgery to a child’s genitals is mutilation. They have no way to consent, and anything short of a medical necessity is the parent making massive changes to their child’s life based on their preferences. To make the point crystal clear:
How is performing a medically unnecessary surgery on a child’s genitals not mutilation? Again, you’re changing their body surgically without their consent for no reason aside from ignorant beliefs.
I was circumcized as an infant without my consent, and my mutilated dick wants you to stop downplaying the severity of its fate.
A piece of me is literally missing, and you want to say I’m not mutilated because that would offend you? Why, do you have uncomfortable feelings about your own situation that you refuse to examine?
As a follow on, is your username supposed to be “Holmes” but you decided to wing it on the spelling test?
I’m also circumcised and find getting bent out of shape over it 18 years later to be… an unusual response.
aww, did that sound good before you posted it?
sybau
There are several possible reasons why other men might be upset, although your own equipment still works perfectly normally:
Just like women’s sexual responses differ, men’s sexual responses may differ, as well. I’ve learned from a friend, who’s had many male partners, that some men get intense pleasure from manipulation of their foreskin. Some can even reach orgasm that way. I’ve learned from several (intact) men on Reddit and Lemmy that their primary source of sexual sensation is their foreskin, rather than their glans. Losing a major source of pleasure could be upsetting.
This same friend also reports that, in his experience, intact men have better awareness of their own state of arousal, and better control of it. In brief, they can “last longer.” This is anecdotal, of course, but I seem to recall reading some research to back that up. That’s part of the reason why he’s upset by his being circumcised.
“Circumcision” is not just one thing. It ranges from the traditional bris (a small snip at the tip of the penis, so that the tip of the glans just peeks out) to amputation of the entire mobile skin system of the penis (about 15 sq. in. of adult tissue gone). I would imagine that men who have drum-tight skin on their penises, and must use lube to facilitate penetration or masturbation, might not like it, whereas a man whose glans was still covered when his penis was flaccid might not notice much difference.
The dorsal nerve of the penis can be severed during the procedure, removing sensation from the glans almost entirely, leading to erectile and performance issues, as well as greatly reduced enjoyment of sex.
The healing of the circumcision wound can go not-quite-perfectly, leading to adhesions, assymetry, tight frenulums, phantom pain, and scarring. Journalist Gary Shteyngart wrote an essay about the odyssey of pain that he was thrown into when a skin bridge (an adhesion) on his penis became infected. Worse, I recall a letter published in Savage Love from a man whose circumcision scar was so thick and inelastic that it caused the end of his penis to go ischemic, then necrotic, and then fall off when he was an infant. He’s left with a stub of a penis, and a pretty good reason to be upset about circumcision, I’d say.
So the problem is a lot of people think a circumcision is something responsible adults do to their children to help them avoid potential health problems. They also believe it serves no purpose and is one of those we evolved with it, but it is useless kind of things.
They dont know the truth that it actually has a large number of nerve endings and was originally pushed for to reduce the pleasure boys felt from masturbation, in the hope they would not masturbate. Because sex should only be for reproduction according to those who originally pushed for circumcision… It is like what is done to some women in muslim communities. Difference being woman have even more nerve endings in the clitoris and men can still experience some pleasure without the foreskin, but much less. This is why circumcision is often considered mutilation, except for those rare medical exceptions. Parents are unknowingly removing their childs right to sexual pleasure under the guise it is for their health.
It really needs to end as simple hygiene is all that is needed for the health reasons.
As a circumcised man, who was once a teenage boy, I’m surprised that generation after generation of men who’d also been circumcised teenage boys never acknowledged “ya know, this doesn’t do a goddamn thing to keep’em from beatin’ their dicks”. But science and logic has never been religion’s strong suit.
Well, we don’t do it the way Dr. Kellogg first subscribed it. You’re supposed to do it as a punishment the first time you catch them in the act. It probably only stops them while they heal, but it will stop them.
You probably don’t want to know what he subscribed for girls in the same situation.
What? I live in a traditionally Catholic region and I haven’t heard of anyone getting circumcized, now or in the past.
Guess it depends where. It is extremely common here amongst catholics in Texas.
I mean, you lost a significant amount of your sensory nerves in your penis, but you do you.
Anyway, I fucking didn’t do it to my kids because it is unconscionable to mutilate a child’s (possibly) completely functional penis for aesthetic reasons.
BTW, You are bragging that you happened to be lucky. Many are not.
Obviously most circumsised people have no issues with their dicks. And a lot probably sees it as a positive. I have heard a people claim that they look better.
Doing plastic surgery on babies is still a bit weird to me.
In my country, most men I know of feel satisfied with their trimmed tools, just there is more emphasis on having the length and being potent on bed. Likewise, local anti-circumcision activists are also a very small minority.
But here in this largely Western-progressive dominated fora, male circumcision is met with very strong if not violent negative reaction.
Because sometimes there are scars. Sometimes they cut WAY too much and the skin left is too thin.
Nature designed that weiner, no need for cosmetic customization.
So, if you’ve every had to clean out the inside of your son’s penis, you might feel a little bit differently. Circumcision was considered a standard hygienic practice for decades. There are some marginal benefits to health and safety, particularly wrt transmission of STDs. But given the modernizations in health and safety (particularly condoms and milder skin-friendly soap) it definitely feels archaic.
I’m circumcized. I don’t think it’s a big deal. My son isn’t (largely at the objections of my wife who was much more anti-circumcision than I am). So far, he hasn’t seemed to mind having a foreskin. It strikes me as something people just like to get mad at. It has no discernible impact either of our lives, except in the case where I’m giving him a bath.
Compared to, say, the consequences of laws around abortion or modern contraception or vaccination, this seems trivial to the point of being a deliberately engineered distraction.
So, if you’ve every had to clean out the inside of your son’s penis, you might feel a little bit differently. Circumcision was considered a standard hygienic practice for decades. There are some marginal benefits to health and safety, particularly wrt transmission of STDs. But given the modernizations in health and safety (particularly condoms and milder skin-friendly soap) it definitely feels archaic.
It feels archaic because this is archaic bullshit. it takes about a second to pull back the foreskin and wash it with the rest of the penis/pubic area during a normal bath the bathing a baby/toddler, and teaching a child this very normal habit is very simple and easy. The vast majority of human males on Earth handle this very normal task, and have done so for the entire existence of humanity.
Just because the misinformation you just repeated was pushed by the American medical establishment for a few decades doesn’t make it fact, and it has been widely repudiated by the medical establishments everywhere else, and even here in the US in recent decades.
It is no longer widely recommended, even in the US.
And your personal preference isn’t really medically relevant.
The vast majority of human males on Earth handle this very normal task, and have done so for the entire existence of humanity.
Go ask around the medical community and you’ll discover quite a few didn’t handle it well. Kids don’t do a good job of washing. That area is easily infected, even setting aside STDs. The procedure was created precisely in response to these perfectly normal human conditions, along with a litany of other - now largely archaic - practices for avoiding illness and infection.
It is no longer widely recommended, even in the US.
Even that fact varies state-by-state. It is no longer automatically covered by health insurance, which has resulted in a large drop-off in the practice domestically. But then that’s been the US standard for medicine going on 50 years.
And your personal preference isn’t really medically relevant.
It’s highly relevant, since parents are the ultimate arbiters of their childrens’ health and well-being.
Go ask around the medical community and you’ll discover quite a few didn’t handle it well. Kids don’t do a good job of washing.
I have, and this isn’t true. it’s also not supported by the medical documentation available. Instructing kids, especially when you start from an early age, to develop proper hygiene habits is pretty easy. I’ve even borne witness to it many times personally, although I’m not necessarily offering my personal experience as proof.
It’s highly relevant
not when you’re making claims about everyone everywhere. what matters there is evidence to back up your claims, which you have yet to provide.
so, since you were the one who initially made such claims… please back them up from reliable sources such as the AMA, for example.
It’s highly relevant, since parents are the ultimate arbiters of their childrens’ health and well-being.
Precisely. Parents should protect their children from genital mutilation.
I think you are misinformed.
Published by Nature in 2023.
scholar.google.com/scholar?as_ylo=2022&q=circumci…
“What is the medical evidence on non-therapeutic child circumcision?”
We conclude that non-therapeutic circumcision performed on otherwise healthy infants or children has little or no high-quality medical evidence to support its overall benefit. Moreover, it is associated with rare but avoidable harm and even occasional deaths. From the perspective of the individual boy, there is no medical justification for performing a circumcision prior to an age that he can assess the known risks and potential benefits, and choose to give or withhold informed consent himself.
Doesn’t mind having a perfectly natural unmutilated body?!
Naturalistic fallacy aside, I missed that market when I got corrective surgery for scoliosis. I’ve also got a few tattoos and piercings that any proper orthodox Jew would find abominable.
My son spent three months in the NICU and had I don’t even know how many medical interventions during that time. His “perfectly natural unmutilated body” would have been a 1.5oz corpse.
We’re both way past circumcision as the defining issue of our lives.
One is medical necessity and one is religious bullshit inflicting pain and assuming consent. Go do something productive with your life… Vote or something.
Its OK to move past the trauma, it’s not OK to assume everybody should go through that progression just because you did.
But the point is you wouldn’t tattoo your child before he is of age and without consulting him. This practice is not necessary
You just compared a normal.body part to a deformity
I certain mind having the body I got.
You are probably old enough to consent to changes and to take responsibility for your decisions for the rest of your own life.
It has no discernible impact either of our lives,
Then why would you chop it off?
Just for starters, you’re not “chopping” anything.
Past that, again, it’s for a marginal benefit in hygiene.
You should probably cut your earlobes off too then, you don’t really need them and it’s possible they could get infected. And I’m sure you shave your and your children bald regularly, right? You don’t need hair and it removes the possibility of lice which can carry blood-born diseases.
I think you’ve got a very weak argument for it. It seems sensible to me that elective procedures should have clear benefits to outweigh the corresponding risks of performing it; there are always risks with performing medical procedures.
And w.r.t. you comment on no chopping — it’s a piece of skin that is attached to a human body, it doesn’t just fall off by itself. You do have to cut it. Choppy choppy.
I’m uncircumcised and my son is uncircumcised. Really goes a long way on understanding how to deal with a normal uncircumcised penis. Cleaning it doesn’t take any extra effort.
Unfortunately for you the information on how to care for a normal uncircumcised penis on a younger child is not easily available because of the expectation that all American children are circumcised.
You are not supposed to retract the foreskin until later in life. When? Well it’s different for everyone but can be as late as age 10 or more. Until that time it’s “self-cleaning” just wash the outside. Tell the kid to keep trying to gently retract it when he pees or baths, if it doesn’t pull back easily it’s not ready.
You don’t need to get soap up in there until it starts retracting on it own, the skin begins to naturally separate. If you force it, you can cause scaring and damage, you’re literally ripping the skin from the glans. Once it retracts, pull the foreskin back wash the glans and ta dah… clean dick.
It’s made out to be this big inconvenience and believed by men with their foreskin removed. It’s not at all an inconvenience. You also don’t have any idea what your missing out on by having a circumcised penis.
Anyway thought I’d share before you mess up your kids dick. Lot of doctors I’ve talked to I had to correct on the proper way to take care of an uncircumcised child’s penis, it’s very unsettling and you might have got incorrect information yourself.
Lucky for me a have the proper equipment to know what I was talking about.
here are some marginal benefits to health and safety, particularly wrt transmission of STDs.
Bullshit.
Yeah, I believe the STD myth has been debunked
You know we’re on the internet and you can just look stuff up instead of making it up.
you aren’t supposed to use soap on genitals
Maybe you don’t lose an inch of penis length, but perhaps you do lose an inch of skin.
But I agree this is stupid because 99.99% of people are going to think “penis length.”
This is perhaps the dumbest circumcision awareness sign I’ve seen. And I support the cause.
Get over it, wuss
slaacaa@lemmy.world 6 months ago
It’s unconsentual genital mutilation of babies, a beyond cruel excercise - unless there is a clear medical reason
applebusch@lemmy.blahaj.zone 6 months ago
thethunderwolf@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 months ago
“it gets gross if you dont wash it” THEN FUCKING WASH IT IDIOT
mr_satan@lemmy.zip 6 months ago
In my twenties I’ve caught a fungus down there. It caused some scarring on the foreskin. Basically it got tighter, so much so that undoing (what’s the term??) it during erections was painful.
The doctor said I needed to be circumcised, so I got the surgery. Healing was not too bad and I can’t say it had any lasting impact (in sensitivity or otherwise).
PoliteDudeInTheMood@lemmy.ca 6 months ago
Balanitis, doctor told me the same thing. I said fuck that, managed to stretch the skin back into functioning properly. Painful as fuck but worth it.
Blander_Rurton@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Yep, right on. There can be a need for it when the foreskin is too tight during puberty, but it doesn’t fully pull back until that time in a boy’s life anyway so the circumcision is not necessary from birth, apart from maybe in the case of a rare deformity.
fred_garvin@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Are you sure you are not a chick though?
applebusch@lemmy.blahaj.zone 6 months ago
thethunderwolf@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 months ago
what??? how is this relevant