Submitted 2 weeks ago by Modern_medicine_isnt@lemmy.world to games@lemmy.world
More and more games seem to suck on thier own, but can be great with mods. You have entire platforms like roblox where all the games are more or less mods. How long until the platform itself is community created and managed and the viability of games created by companies dissappears?
It’s been happening for years, almost decades at this point. In fact, I’d be willing to say that at least 50% of most games ever made were made by someone who used to mod other games for fun.
My friend, I regret to inform you form you those are not recent releases.
Also Phoenix Point, made by the team behind The Long War mods for XCOM.
Actually Phoenix Point was by the lead dev of the original XCOM.
Terra Invicta is the game you’re thinking of by the Long War devs.
I’d say maybe over 20 years ago?
The existence of engines like Unity and Unreal blurs this a bit. You used to see more full-conversion mods for games that make them into something else, because the engine was the hard part. Now that they’re available on very permissive terms, most hobbyist game devs will genuinely make a full game from an empty kit, and release it without players needing to mod a game like Half-Life or Quake.
But, having full ownership of that environment naturally means a lot of creators will want something back for their work. They have no choice but to shrug and accept it’s a free fan project when it’s built off a $60 game, but the story is different when that chain is gone. So most of this trend takes the form of indie game development.
Negative time, many games you know and love began as mods of other games.
Counter Strike, Warcraft 3 DotA, ARMA 3 PlayerUnknown’s Battlegrounds, Momentum Mod, … All of these were mods that became so big they became their own games.
If you’re strictly talking about platforms though, you need support from the original developers,or the source must be easily editable (like the minecraft java edition). At that point it becomes pretty common for huge mods to be made which eventually end up managing themselves. The problem is that you need a lot of money to actually make new feeling games. And developers can’t easily ask for money for mods, so development time is quite limited.
I am talking even lower. Like a made for modding framework that is totally open source. And yeah, that means games will end up with a somewhat common look and feel. But a lot of games end up that way anyway after mods. I am not sure that players need tons of unique games. I think they want games that are comfortable and replayable. In many cases they just want to hang out with friends, and the game itself is almost a pretext. Fortnight is actually a decent example of that. It leaned into that with lots of events that weren’t really much more than window dressing. But if it is completely opensource, you can end up with a ton of flavors to try and a lower learning curve for each.
Think you just described a game engine like Godot or Armory.
Ultimately that’s what you are describing there with such a free-form framework. The tools to make anything.
Even at a higher level engines like RPG maker and twine exist within genres.
And that isn’t a mod, so much as a game.
But going back to mods…
And why should that end up with a common look and feel? People have been modding the look and feel of games since the 90s.
Credentials: I made mods and maps in the 90s and commercial games in the 2000s.
Some have already tried that. There are some games where there’s basically zero base game and the devs want the players to fill in the content. Since such games start out with nothing, no one makes mods for them, and so the games die in obscurity. Ever hear of S&box?
That said, the people behind RPGMaker have a lot of this covered. They provide a good stock of assets to let people build stuff out of the box. This lets people create content quick, which eventually brings in the people that know what they’re doing, which results in good stuff.
I remember that Microsoft “sandbox” dev environment. That went nowhere.
Simulation games lean into this. E.g. Assetto Corsa’s base content is kinda meh, but there are thousands of mods for it, and it’s still the most popular sim racing game over ten years after release (helped by deep tinkering like graphics adjustment and weather modification).
Afaik BeamNG allows creating scenarios for challenges by programming widgets in Lua.
I was thinking more like RPGMaker. Some open source engine or what not that anyone can contribute to and read the code of that supports the easy building of games. AI can help with the graphics that most people good and design aren’t good at.
Factorio was created because Kovorax didn’t get a job at Minecraft…
IC2 modpack was a vibe.
Ya’ll talking about modded games, and no one mentioned Fallout London.
The developers got tired of waiting for Fallout 5 and made it themselves.
I’m not exactly sure if this is what you mean, but I have a couple examples of fantastic community powered fan games that arguably eclipse their inspiration.
Pokemon Infinite Fusion: fan powered remake of Pokemon Fire Red that incorporates a fusion mechanic and has something like 600,000 high quality fan created sprites. They’re now working on a version for Pokemon Emerald
Clone Hero: fan made guitar hero/rockband clone with support for tons of peripherals including drums and vocals, with a huge library of fan generated songs.
Honestly, this is how I wish more of my favorite IPs would go. Elder scrolls and fallout especially, Bethesda couldn’t write a story for a bad porno, let alone compete with some of the story mods in Fallout 4 and skyrim. Just streamline the developer tools into an easy to access plug and play system for mods and quit trying to sell us a $40 knock off of an existing mod on nexus.
Well, I started playing Skyrim about 3 years ago, and I now have over 200 mods. It’s almost as high quality graphics and sound as modern games, plus I have a huge choice of scenarios I can install. Wild stuff.
Cyberpunk 2077 might be next for me, unless I decide to play skyblivion!
Company-made games aren’t going anywhere any time soon. Its a different type of project than modding/creating for sandbox games like Gmod, Minecraft, Roblox, or VRChat. Making games within other games limits what you can do, because you have no control over the engine, and said engine is normally focused on an specific “base” mechanics set. For example, in Gmod, this is an FPS game. Modders can change this gameplay, but the further you push away from it, the less work is done for you, and the more you’re fighting the existing game. At a certain point, you may as well just make a game rather than a mod.
Sure, but the engine. My understanding is that even the game companies often license something like unreal engine or what not. Those cost money. How long berfore modders create their own engines for the various common game mechanics that are very mod friendly?
There are free engines available, and many of the paid ones have cheap or free tiers available for smaller projects. Also, if you want to actually publish your mod, there are likely to be a bunch of costs, like buying licences to use copyrighted characters, settings, ect. Even more so if you want to publish your mod as a standalone product, where you need to buy a licence to resell the entire original game.
That said, prehaps it would help to think of the game engine as a foundation, and the games as a completed house. If you want to make something, you can look at existing houses and imagine putting an extention on, or a new coat of paint. If the house is particularly well contructed, maybe its even easy to do. Still, at a certain point, theres no more you can add or change without it being easier to tear everything down and start from the foundation, or entirely from scratch. Its not a limitation of the design of the house, its just an intrinsic fact when you’re working by building off someone else’s completed work.
Now, if we start from the foundation (engine) instead we have less to start with, meaning its going to be a lot more work than doing minor changes, but the hardest part is still already done for us. This is what most people do when making games. Its far more flexable than modding, esspecially because you have a selection of engines available at different prices, with different strengths, weaknesses and specializations. GameMaker for simple 2D games, RPGMaker for making jrpgs, Unreal for 3D action games, ect.
Finally, you could skip both these options, and design and build everything from scatch. Its the option that gives you most freedom by far, but its generally not worth it unless you’re making something thats very small, that is so unique that nothing else will work, or that you’re dedicated and what a perfect fit for.
Engines cost money for a reason. It means you get the tools while someone else spends the significant resources to develop and maintain it. There are FOSS engines available, but those aren’t as developed or widespread.
More and more games seem to suck on thier own, but can be great with mods.
What new games with proper modding tools are there? Nobody wants to mod Starfield compared to Skyrim, Most of you probably don’t even know that there are modding tools out for Doom Eternal. There’s gooner mods for Capcom games and VR plugins I guess. Indie game engines ate the modding community’s lunch.
There are in fact plenty of games with mod support.
Recently Nuclear Option has a mod scene that’s really popping off and it doesn’t even have official mod tools.
Well, recently I have played rimworld, 7 days to die, satisfactory, raft, and subnautica. They all have mods. I can’t recall the last game I played that didn’t. Now some of those didn’t suck on thier own, but seems like a lot do.
That’s fair. I am vaguely aware that sim and sandbox games do tend to have mod support. For reference, with a quick search into the 71 games mentioned in the 2025 Game Awards Show, ~5-10 come with significant mod support.
S&box is coming out in like a month so probably then
I’m both super excited and very worried about this project. It has so much potential but there’s so little hype around it that it might not have enough creators and users. It’s also going to be paid which might be a tough sell considering other platforms like Roblox are free.
I tried the dev preview though, it’s pretty rad.
I plan to get it for my kid, they love creating games. Hopefully it helps them connect some dots about art and such. I plan to play with it too, excited to watch all my wonderfully intellectual game opinions get torn to bits by actual game dev experience.
What’s that exactly?
A modern attempt at a Garry’s Mod sequel by the same developer, basically.
We already have this, it’s called a game engine. Godot does this fully, and Unity is company owned but offers a community store with its own ecosystem. Download one of them and start creating today! No company will hold you back.
There aren’t enough talented users like that. And no one will put in tremendous effort in for free. And almost no one will pay for a game twice.
I’m still curious how CDPR did away with Witcher 1 - whether they paid Bioware to use NWN engine or not.
They did.
So, add renting an engine to my list then.
You mean like Luanti? These platforms exist, but most people won’t know of their existance. Game companies invest heavily in advertisement to reach potential consumers
Aliens: Total Conversion - 1994:
So like itch.io?
No, not a platform to sell games. There are plenty of those.
I mean not super far away from what Sandbox seems to be trying to do, but I haven’t really looked into it so I don’t know for sure
Legion TD2 is a game that was originally a Starcraft mod.
ampersandrew@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Were you playing games through the late 90s and early 00s, by any chance? Because we’ve been here before.
UxyIVrljPeRl@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Didnt the whole moba genre start as mod?
ampersandrew@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
The third-most populated game on Steam right now is Dota 2. Dota 1 is a mod. Counter-Strike was a Half-Life mod. PUBG came from the designer of a Battle Royale mod for Arma.
LurkingLuddite@piefed.social 2 weeks ago
Started as Warcraft 3 custom maps before Dota 1.
Modern_medicine_isnt@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I did in fact play games then. But back then, modded games weren’t anywhere near as common as they are now. And the games that were modded to make new great games were great to begin with.
Now adays we seem to start from trash and use mods to make it playable. Soo, do we need the trash?
ampersandrew@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Roblox gets mods and UGC because people wanted to be there to begin with. Mostly children, but still people. I don’t know how to make an apples to apples comparison about how prevalent modding was back then, because there are just way more games out today in general; but there were still tons of mods. Elder Scrolls and the mod community have always been intertwined, and once again, people like what’s there in the first place. Even with the reputation of Elder Scrolls being a game you install mods on, it’s only something like 10% of players that ever install them. I have never modded Elder Scrolls.