Why are public school teachers so underpaid in the US?

Submitted ⁨⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago⁩ by ⁨glups@piefed.social⁩ to ⁨[deleted]⁩

It’s been a stereotype for at least the last 50 years. Why has this never changed? Why has organized labor not had a substantial effect for such an essential part of the workforce?

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running_ragged@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
The GOP is fully to blame.

They sell the American public on the idea that any taxes are bad, no matter what they are meant to fund. When they are in power they cut public services, give tax breaks to corporations, and schedule tax raises to occur when they’re out of power.

When they aren’t in power they yell about taxes nonstop to make sure democrats are too scared to re-fund them, so they don’t get voted out.

Cycle after cycle, and now there’s no money to give the teachers.

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- ArmoredThirteen@lemmy.zip ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  There’s also the feedback loop where they point at the broken underfunded public services and are like “see how shit public services are? They’re a waste of taxes. We could gut them to save you money”
  
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  - BranBucket@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    Absolutely intentionally designed to be that way by the GOP and blatantly obvious when you look at their voting records.
    
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- prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  They’ve conditioned people to be so against taxes that you have a significant portion of the public saying things like, “why should my taxes fund public schools if my children graduated 20 years ago?”
  
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  - clay_pidgin@sh.itjust.works ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    I’ve heard people say this with my own IRL ears. It’s completely indefensible.
    
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- BranBucket@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  One of their main arguments against taxes is that government will always waste tax dollars due to corruption and incompetence… Which is a self fulfilling prophecy, as they’ve proven to be some of the most corrupt and incompetent political leaders in history.
  
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Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
George Carlin said it best. We want dumb happy obedient workers. Smart enough to runthe machines, but not smart enough to realize how badly they’re getting fucked by the system. So don’t count on the schools to do much more than basic math, and basic skills. Because what helps the elite class screws over the working class. It’s best to start screwing them in kindergarten. Teach them the pledge of allegence, so they feel endebted to our system, and keep them there for their entire lives.

Paraphrasing here, but that’s the jist of a routine he had in the 90s. The important thing to note is that Carlin was NOT a time traveler. He didn’t predict the future. It’s just that we as a society have had the same problems for 100 years, and we never fixed our shit.

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- Jack@lemmy.ca ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  Maybe because 98.1% keep voting for either evil or the lesser evil; but almost none of them vote for the good like Nader?
  
  “Everybody complains about politicians. Everybody says they suck. Well, where do people think these politicians come from? They don’t fall out of the sky. They don’t pass through a membrane from another reality. They come from American parents and American families, American homes, American schools, American churches, American businesses, and American universities - and they are elected by American citizens. This is the best we can do folks. This is what we have to offer. It’s what our system produces: Garbage in, garbage out. If you have selfish, ignorant citizens, […] you’re going to get selfish, ignorant leaders. Term limits ain’t going to do any good; you’re just going to end up with a brand new bunch of selfish, ignorant Americans. So, maybe, maybe, maybe, it’s not the politicians who suck. Maybe something else sucks around here… like, the public.” – George Carlin https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBrbXOmnW70
  
  “It is infinitely better to vote for freedom and fail than to vote for slavery and succeed.” - Eugene V. Debs, Appeal to Reason, 1900-10-13
  
  “Wage-labor is but a name; wage-slavery is the fact.” - Eugene V. Debs, The Socialist Party and the Working Class 1904-09-01
  
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  - DagwoodIII@piefed.social ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    Please show me one time in the past 50 years that a third party candidate in the US helped the Left win an election.
    
    The GOP constantly funds and pushes for the Greens and Libertarians because they know those candidates sap the Dems.
    
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  - lmmarsano@group.lt ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    meme: bitches dont know bout my spoiler effect
    or primaries
    
    a spoiler effect happens when a losing candidate affects the results of an election simply by participating
    
    Vote splitting is the most common cause of spoiler effects in FPP. In these systems, the presence of many ideologically-similar candidates causes their vote total to be split between them, placing these candidates at a disadvantage. This is most visible in elections where a minor candidate draws votes away from a major candidate with similar politics, thereby causing a strong opponent of both to win.
    
    That the US voting system lacks the sincere favorite criterion is mathematical fact: lesser-evil voting is necessary to avoid practically certain loss. Denying that is like denying laws of physics. You can’t coerce logic & causality to your will. Just because you don’t understand that doesn’t mean others don’t. Primaries exist to select better major party candidates.
    
    Viable 3rd party candidates requires voting reform, which again requires passing those reforms through the current system.
    
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bridgeenjoyer@sh.itjust.works ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Let me tell you a story about a man named Ronald Reagan.

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- BigBananaDealer@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  the actor!?
  
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  - jtzl@lemmy.zip ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    Who’s the president in 1985?!
    
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- SippyCup@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  Please, go on
  
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GreenBeard@lemmy.ca ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Knowing what you’re talking about is considered elitist by most Americans. Under-funding education is effectively a DEI program for idiots.

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mysticpickle@lemmy.ca ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Image

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Nemo@slrpnk.net ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Because (public) education isn’t valued and we insist on the idiotic practice of funding schools primarily through local property taxes.

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disregardable@lemmy.zip ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
In the US, public schools are funded by the local tax base. If the local tax base is broke as fuck, their services will be broke as fuck. That means you’ve got crumbling sewer systems to worry about more than having well paid teachers.

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h54@programming.dev ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Forget what it says on the tin. To truly understand a society, look at its institutions.

Education isn’t valued by the sociopaths that run the US.

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- Bakkoda@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  Clarification: Education is so dangerous to the ruling class that they are attempting to remove it.
  
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- MerryJaneDoe@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  It hasn’t been for some time.
  
  “Education” is indoctrination. That’s why kids are forced to recite the Pledge of Allegiance. It’s why I was taught about Columbus. It’s why I believed that “Honest Abe” fought for the rights of slaves.
  
  All bullshit, but each was a small building block to believing that somehow the US was a special place, a blessed nation, where personal expression and equality and opportunity were valued and hard work meant success.
  
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  - h54@programming.dev ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    
    And the sad thing - even at its worst, the US is still a better place to live than 80% of the world.
    
    I’d say it depends on what you value. If one is born of a certain caste (or above) and wants to accumulate stuff, I’d say you’re right.
    
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MrSelfDestruct25@fedinsfw.app ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Because if public education pumped out smart kids, no one would vote Republican.

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AlecSadler@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
All the other answers are correct.

Republicans / conservatives in the US are a poison. Delusional, evil. Either opportunist pieces of shit or certifiably the dumbest people in the world.

Their existence is a net negative, period, full stop. Their non-existence…well, take that as you will.

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evasive_chimpanzee@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
There aren’t always. There are plenty of places that pay teachers well. The problem is that the qualifications for a school that pays really well are pretty much the same as the qualifications for a school that doesn’t. Schools that pay well have 1,000 applications and never any vacancies, so new teachers have a hard time finding a well paying job. Public school employee salaries are public information, so you can actually look them up.

Average teacher salaries in Massachusetts dont look bad to me. profiles.doe.mass.edu/…/teachersalaries.aspx

Obviously, it’s not universal.

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phoenixz@lemmy.ca ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
That’s by design

A dumb population is easier to control, which is why Republicans since Reagan have been slashing education whenever possible, trying to inject theocracy on there as much as possible, because religious dumb fucks are even easier to control

That cutting salaries helps them with their greed is just a cherry on top of the vomit cake

L

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- daychilde@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  
  That cutting salaries helps them with their greed is just a cherry on top of the vomit cake
  
  L
  
  /r/redditsniper OH SHIT THEY’VE HIT LEMMY NOW
  
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MerryJaneDoe@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
The answer is always greed.

Teachers tend to like teaching. It’s a rewarding, “feel good” career. You know that you are helping kids, you get to watch them at their best. And, yes, sometimes at their worst, too, but that’s part of the deal - like watching your puppy chew up your couch and shit on the floor. Still worth it.

Since teachers tend to be passionate, they put up with a lot of bullshit admin/management. Moreso than you might at a soulless corporate job. This isn’t limited to teachers, either. Consider other careers where people put up with bullshit, and you’ll see a lot of parallels.

Art is a great parallel example. Everyone loves great art, artists love making art - but many people don’t want to pay for art. That’s why there’s so many passionate actors and musicians, but so few of them manage to eke out a living as a true professional. The passion is there, they are driven by their love of art, not by the material rewards.

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Strider@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Not raising the education of the public is an easy control method and also easily keeps up the myth of the USA being such a great country while completely obviously contradicting itself.

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Sunsofold@lemmings.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
There’s a wild spread on both pay and the requirements to work as a teacher. Some places require barely more than a pulse. Some places require years of schooling. Some places pay teachers no better than shelf-stockers. Some pay a decent wage and/or have a decent pension/benefits system. It’s definitely not a monoculture.

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DrFunkenstein@sh.itjust.works ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
To add to the (absolutely accurate) commentary in the rest of the thread, this hits on a something Grabber talks about in Bullshit Jobs. Almost universally, the jobs that are the most important to society actually functioning are the ones that pay the least (with the one notable exception of physicians). There’s this idea that you should be “grateful” to have such an important job, and that’s in a way almost part of your pay. See also nurses, elderly care providers, daycare employees, anyone who works for a charity. People in charge use this “moral capital” as a way to convince you to take less actual money

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- TubularTittyFrog@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  physicians in primary care are the lowest paid doctors.
  
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- MerryJaneDoe@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  
  (with the one notable exception of physicians)
  
  Not an important job to a functioning society. As evidenced that most Americans can’t afford to see a physician except on rare occasions, yet we are still alive.
  
  Please don’t misunderstand - I think access to healthcare should be emphasized more, and healthcare workers should be fairly compensated. But all the physicians in the world could disappear today and the effect would be minimal compared to all the truck drivers disappearing or all the nurses disappearing.
  
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gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
The US government wants people to be stupid so they can be manipulated more easily

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AA5B@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Supply and demand, along with historic sexism.

teaching (up to high school) has historically been predominantly women. And yes women used to be paid much less. That gap has narrowed a lot but “women’s work” still tends to pay less

there are hundreds of thousands of teachers. There are huge numbers. There’s always another

while it takes a lot to be a good teacher, it’s not so much to “teach”

So I think we have a history of low pay, the vast number militants against that changing, and to appearance anyone can be a “teacher”

Don’t get me wrong my family has significant history in the field and deep respect for the importance and to the huge impact a good teacher can make on someone’s future. But when my kid wanted to teach, after saying I would be so proud as would the vast array of ancestors, I added that you need to be aware of poor pay. To translate to video game, it’s doing life in hard mode
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Modern_medicine_isnt@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
There are two parts. First, they aren’t as underpaid as most people think in most cases. The union isn’t dumb. When they negotiate they look at the long term. A career teacher (30 to 35 years) can retire at about 55 give or take depending on the district. And they will get something like 80% of thier salary for the rest of thier life. They will also get subsidized health insurance. And in some states, all of that is tax free. That is a ton of money and a ton of security. And for many, they can retire, collect pension, and go get another job at the same time if they want. I make more than double what teachers make best case, and my wife works too for a 6 figure salary. I can’t possibly retire at 55, let alone feel secure doing so. I also have been laid off twice over the last 30 years, where as most teacher don’t have to worry about that after 10 years. Now, I get to take vacation anytime of the year, I can change jobs or move and not mess up my future benefits. I don’t have to deal with parents. Lots of intangible benefits to not being a teacher. But the point is the union ensures those less obvious benefits, which keeps the current salary low. This keeps the optics of drastically underpaid teachers so that the union can still negotiate for more with public sentiment on thier side. So while they are still underpaid, it isn’t as drastic as it would appear.

The other reason is simple. There are a lot of teachers. Like a lot a lot. And schools are generally built to a higher standard of saftey, so they are much more expensive than other building types. All of this adds up to a very high cost. Education is typically one of the largest expenditures for a state budget. Poloticians could dump more money into it, but it isn’t likely to be enough to make a difference that will get them reelected. So they put money other places that will get them votes.

That’s your reasons why.

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preschool236@lemmy.wtf ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Agree with most of the other commentary I would say this isn’t super universal. The pay gap has gotten less egregious in states like New Jersey where you can make a relatively comfortable living when you factor in the benefits received compared to private sector workers (i.e. real pensions and good healthcare)

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- innermachine@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  Being on my fiance healthcare vs paying private party is saving us 1k a month each. Not to mention dental, vision, and life insurance. She easily gets near 3k a month worth of benefits, although her take home pay isn’t great. My job has no benefits but pays more, she sometimes feels as though she doesn’t pull her weight and I have to remind her how much were NOT spending due to her benefits! If she lost her job I would have to quit mine and scramble to find one that would offer benefits to cover both of us.
  
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  - preschool236@lemmy.wtf ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    it’s really the best of both worlds when you have a partner with state benefits
    
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webkitten@piefed.social ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Because about 90% of legislators are rich and went to private religious schools.

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protogen420@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
are they not underpaid everywhere else too? I don’t think this is a USA only issue, all public teachers where I live with the exception of teachers for universities complain about low salary

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- TubularTittyFrog@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  No, in many Euro countires it’s a good-paying middle-class job with reasonable hours.
  
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- polysexualstick@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  In Germany it’s just primary school teachers. For secondary school teachers, I think the wages are solid. The working conditions are still absolutely shit which is why I turned away from the profession (at least for now). But the wages are not the problem there.
  
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TubularTittyFrog@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Teaching isn’t considered a professional job in the USA. It’s considered to be part of the service industry, thus the low pay.

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- MojoMcJojo@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  Teachers are not lazy. The institutions charged with supporting teachers are lazy.
  
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  - TubularTittyFrog@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    all the dumbest people i know became teachers because they wanted a minimal effort job.
    
    not every teach is crappy, but you are ignorant if you think every teacher is some hardworking dedicated person.
    
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- Lemminary@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  I can’t recall ever having shitty teachers in public schools up until uni. In fact, I got amazing teachers who cared and sometimes went above and beyond. None of them came to school drunk, save for one uni teacher who was also named the top surgeon in my city. 🤷‍♂️
  
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  - TubularTittyFrog@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    sounds like you went to school in a rich town. yeah, in rich towns they tend to be much better.
    
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The_Almighty_Walrus@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
When I was in 8th grade, my school district furloughed over 100 teachers at the same time the superintendent was getting a heated marble driveway installed at his house.

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HobbitFoot@thelemmy.club ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Part of it not said in any of the other answers is that schools are managed at a very local level and get a significant amount of their funding through local taxes. So, you get a lot of towns that don’t have the local tax base to raise revenue or you have a local tax base where the wealthy few would rather pay for private school than the taxes to pay for a better public school.

The problem with organized labor in this case is that the organized labor is generally fighting the government and a lot of states don’t want an effective union network getting built or spreading.

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Xanthrax@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Republicans have taught Americans to resent public education. Also, most teachers are Women, so I’ll let fill in the blanks.

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theuniqueone@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
The others hit on big ones private school support, want for not too educated workforce and so on.

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edgemaster72@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

Why has organized labor not had a substantial effect…

Organized labor is working about as well here as funding public schools. Which is to say, not very well at all.

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Dearth@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
School budgets are tied to property taxes for the district the schools serve.

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MonkderVierte@lemmy.zip ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Not just in the US.

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