Lumping ‘always’ with ‘sometimes’ is cooking your results to meet your objective.
How is woke a religion?
Submitted 1 year ago by ruford1976@lemmy.world to mildlyinfuriating@lemmy.world
https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/d9dbcea5-1ef2-448e-a51d-92a32c7850e6.png
Comments
markr@lemmy.world 1 year ago
ZC3rr0r@lemmy.ca 1 year ago
That was the most infuriating thing about this whole post to me. Elon’s braindead take is on brand and expected at this point, but that chart (or worse, the reaserch behind it) is the true crime here.
ffolkes@fanexus.com 1 year ago
I like how they count “Nothing”, “No response”, and “Other” as being separate religions so that the chart looks nore intimidating.
phillaholic@lemm.ee 1 year ago
It’s by a right-wing / libertarian think tank. Spinning whatever bs they want.
bradorsomething@ttrpg.network 1 year ago
Study is done by “TheFire.org,” which is described as a competitor to the ACLU.
I know… why do we need a competitor to the ACLU?
Well, per Wikipedia: “FIRE has been described as a competitor of the ACLU. In 2021, the organization had an annual revenue of $16.1 million. FIRE has received major funding from groups which primarily support conservative and libertarian causes, including the Bradley Foundation, Sarah Scaife Foundation, and the Charles Koch Institute.”
Oh Charles Koch, you scoundrel.
ChaoticNeutralCzech@feddit.de 1 year ago
They have unmatched methods. Is there any other place on the internet with 2024 college free speech rankings?
Cort@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Fwiw, they do explain:
This year’s survey includes 55,102 student respondents from 254 colleges and universities.[1] Students who were enrolled in four-year degree programs were surveyed via the College Pulse mobile app and web portal from January 13 to June 30, 2023
Kinda like being able to buy a 2024 Kiacarnival since July.
Ranvier@sopuli.xyz 1 year ago
If this graph isn’t just made up bs in the first place, one thought I recall from every major college campus I’ve been to is random religious preachers camped out every day telling everyone they’re evil, subhuman, and going to hell. Guessing the atheists find that a little more annoying and worthy of shouting back at than some of the religiously inclined.
XanXic@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Nazi: “white power!” Normal people: “hey, stfu!” Cristian Conservatives: “hey I don’t agree with it but let’s hear him out. Some people might agree, his ideas deserve to be discussed and given a platform”
III@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Alternatively:
Reasoned person: “We should help poor people”
Christian Conservatives: “STFU you woke liberal piece of shit, I hope you die! Go suck Biden’s dick, loser”
Djtecha@lemm.ee 1 year ago
Ahh yes a graph without citation of research, lovely
Seasoned_Greetings@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Let’s go a step further and analyze exactly what this graph is saying:
There’s only about a 20% distribution difference in the “never” sections between Christians and atheists. So on average, 4/5 atheists would answer the exact same as Christians. All this graph says is that Christians are barely more tolerant than people who identify as atheist. Barely is the key word. If anything, this graph proves that tolerance levels don’t fluctuate that much for the individual between differing religions.
But Bible thumpers need any win they can get, so they don’t read the data for what it is, they just see one bar longer than the other and declare victory.
bradorsomething@ttrpg.network 1 year ago
I made a comment below, this is from a conservative research group funded by the remaining Koch brother, among other conservatives.
teft@startrek.website 1 year ago
There seems to be an innate need for religion.
For whom? Because I sure as shit don’t have any need to believe in fairy tales.
TheDoozer@lemmy.world 1 year ago
I think the biggest issue is religious people that can only view things through the lense of their own perspective equate any belief system with religion. And since we, as humans, categorize everything, everyone has a “belief system,” even if you believe in absolutely nothing (nihilism).
So “atheism” is considered a religion, believing in the scientific method is a religion, and believing in the inherent and equal rights of people is a religion.
money_loo@lemmy.world 1 year ago
So much this.
My little brother is religious AF and I’m an atheist, and that whole tidbit was one of the more frustrating things to argue against.
He’d INSIST that if I didn’t have faith in God, I must have faith in something, because it’s human nature to believe.
It’s like, naw bro, maybe that’s just YOUR nature, but it’s like he just couldn’t think outside that type of thing.
ByteWizard@lemm.ee 1 year ago
For whom?
Generally the uneducated or low-iq who simply can’t be educated. They don’t understand science so to them it might as well be another religion. In that case why not pick the religion that gives them a nice afterlife? Something they can fall back on and blame when they make poor decision after poor decision.
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world 1 year ago
I make my own up. There’s a giant space crab coming to devour us all WORSHIP THEM
teft@startrek.website 1 year ago
Lonnie123@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Thats just what people say when people want to categorize some idea as a religion. “wokeness” or even atheism itself is called a “religion” because it makes the religious feel better about believing in their own beliefs for which there is no basis.
barsoap@lemm.ee 1 year ago
On the most fundamental level: For everyone. That’s because every world-view bogs down to a logical system and all logical systems are grounded in circular reasoning, paradox, or assumptions not provable in that system.
People believe in all kinds of things, e.g. that the judge who’s sentencing you to prison is more than a human in fancy clothes. Or that the social reality that gives them that power doesn’t exist. Both stances are, ultimately, insane, and so are we all.
teft@startrek.website 1 year ago
all logical systems are grounded in circular reasoning, paradox, or assumptions not provable in that system.
That’s a hell of an assertion you have there. We have mathematical papers that prove 1+1=2. What logical system are you saying is grounded in circular reasoning, paradox, or assumptions? Because modern peer reviewed science sure isn’t.
III@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Is science a process or a world-view? That fact you apparently can’t tell the difference is the problem here.
Izzy@lemmy.world 1 year ago
What does it mean to “Shout down a speaker”? What are they speaking about and what is the purpose of shouting at them?
kent_eh@lemmy.ca 1 year ago
When the hate preachers show up on campus with a bullhorn and try to tell everyone that they deserve to burn in hell, they don’t want the reat of the world to tell them to STFU.
Izzy@lemmy.world 1 year ago
I see. If someone is yelling obscenities at you then its probably ok to yell at them too although I wouldn’t bother personally. I don’t think this poll can mean anything though as I imagine everyone has different understandings of what a “speaker” is and is doing.
ninjan@lemmy.mildgrim.com 1 year ago
These open questions are always kinda crap to draw conclusions from because we don’t know how the question was interpreted by the people answering. In this case we also don’t know the sample size of the groups. Could also be a multitude of other variables at play like location because there are few places where you can find all these religions while getting a good sample size and controlling for other variables like income, education, age etc.
Turkey_Titty_city@kbin.social 1 year ago
They go to the lecture and just scream so that that person can't present.
Microplasticbrain@lemm.ee 1 year ago
Bro these people stand in common areas shouting about how everyone is going to hell. They dont have a case and dont deserve any respect. If anything they deserve some counseling from a medical professional.
tburkhol@lemmy.world 1 year ago
And does it apply only to verbal, podium speech, or also to written books and speech by people in [drag] costume.
crackajack@reddthat.com 1 year ago
The questioning is stupid. There is no nuance on the categorisation of frequency because “always” and “sometimes” are put together. They do not mean the same thing! “Always” means “all the time”, “sometimes” means “on occasions”. I am an advocate for free speech as much as the next person, but there is limit to that right because history has shown what can happen if free speech is absolute-- which led us the Holocaust and the Rwandan genocide. Therefore, “sometimes” you COULD shout down someone depending on the content being spouted. So, on a case by case basis, “on occasions” you could shout down someone.
As another poster pointed out, the company who made the survey is conducted by conservative group, FIRE, which is Koch-funded so obviously there is clear bias in the framing of the survey.
Gamey@feddit.de 1 year ago
You freedome ends where someone elses starts, otherwhise noone except you will be free, I don’t get why Americans often have such a hard time with that!
crackajack@reddthat.com 1 year ago
The US never, in its history, had a collective trauma of unstifled free speech that led to any mass hate speech which then led to genocide. That’s why many Americans are absolutists. But considering the Jan 6 capitol attack two years ago, being instigated by the words of Donald Trump, I think sooner or later a worse incident will come eventually. And the country will come reckoning with their absolutist approach to free speech.
aidan@lemmy.world 1 year ago
No one has a freedom from someone saying something mean about them
qyron@sopuli.xyz 1 year ago
Hear hear!
YouSuckLikeLatte@lemmy.world 1 year ago
The Holocaust and the Rwandan genocide didn’t happen because of absolute free speech. Quite on the contrary: freedom of speech was heavily suppressed
crackajack@reddthat.com 1 year ago
Hatred had been allowed to flourish in the run up to both genocides and eventual stifling of free speech, precisely because the undemocratic forces took advantage of freedom of speech to gain power themselves and then stifle any dissent.
The Rwandan genocide in relation to media and free speech is slightly different. It is the government affiliated radio station that encouraged to hate the Tutsis by constantly calling them cockroaches. Interestingly, there was a debate in the US government at the time to block radio signals from the radio station, but decided not to for “commitment to freedom of speech”.
Staccato@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Yeah this is an example of “lying with graphs 101”.
The data probably didn’t fit the narrative when they separate “always” and “sometimes”
Notorious_handholder@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Wait what’s the difference between Atheist, No response, and Nothing?
Also why is there a generic Christian but then also Protestant, Catholic, and Orthodox? But then they just Muslim and not it’s different denominations? Why even have different denominations when you have the generic catch all and the Other category?
This graph categorization makes no sense!
PM_ME_FEET_PICS@sh.itjust.works 1 year ago
Atheism are people who are activly against religion. Nothing are Irreligious people I assume. No Response are those who’s religious identity are unknown. Could be any of the others or none of them.
wildn0x@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Also unfair in the questioning. From my own experience im going to assume the person speaking at the campus is someone yelling how all are damned and calling women whores. Sadly, very few people other than atheists speak up.
ThirdNerd@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Also why is there a generic Christian but then also Protestant, Catholic, and Orthodox? But then they just Muslim and not it’s different denominations? Why even have different denominations when you have the generic catch all and the Other category?
There are kinds of Christian that don’t fall under Protestant, Catholic, and Orthodox by their own measure (which doesn’t care how the Big Three want to categorize them). Perhaps this was why? (Probably not.) Graph should have just lumped them all together as “Christian”.
Mrs_deWinter@feddit.de 1 year ago
Basically, “every opinion I don’t like is a religion.”
ruford1976@lemmy.world 1 year ago
even if it is a religion. So what? does that degrades it’s value? what happened to them preaching about christian’s tollerence?
if it was ever there.
ghostBones@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Or, another way of looking at it is, they’re embrace of deceit and delusion means they periodically have to fabricate new imaginary dragons to slay. The problem with turning victimhood and grievance into a cult is that you need persecution for it to work. Hence, fabricating opposition. Wokeness is just a way for the elder elite to heap hate on the youth that will inevitably replace them. Constantly reminding everyone that you are a patriotic Christian is just a means to try to seize the higher ground for cultural warfare.
Buddahriffic@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Personally, I didn’t stop believing because of the intolerances. I stopped believing because it was an obvious ancient attempt to control people that worked to various degrees but still has the dumb shit people thought was plausible back when they didn’t understand much and didn’t think there was any way to disprove their claims.
aidan@lemmy.world 1 year ago
I think that is most people, I just asked why is everyone automatically accepting this as true. But there are two groups of religious people that I understand moreso: people who feel they witnessed or directly saw a miracle and people who like the experience of a religious group and being around the people in it.
Reverendender@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Good lord this man is stupid
woelkchen@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Atheists: shout at people.
Religious disciples: shoot people.
amio@kbin.social 1 year ago
Getting infuriated over this stupid prick's bullshit, mildly or otherwise, just isn't worth it.
phx@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Also, what is the relation of “a speaker” to religion? If somebody comes in to speak and starts talking about how we need to gas more jews, stop women from voting, and put the blacks back out in the cotton fields then fuck yeah I’m gonna support cutting them off and sending them packing.
archiotterpup@lemmy.world 1 year ago
I have questions about this survey.
Commiunism@lemmy.wtf 1 year ago
The word woke lost all meaning due to far-right wingers constantly using it as a catch-all term for everything they don’t like.
Also, I love how they made it so the top 3 bad guys are atheists, agnostics (which are pretty much the same thing) and the jewish. They’re not even trying to be covert with propaganda.
AnyProgressIsGood@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Theres a few problems with this random graph. Wouldn’t be surprised if it was just made up
IHaveTwoCows@lemm.ee 1 year ago
Conservatives continue to be absurd little pussies desperate to deflect
Zeth0s@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Non-American here. What is Christian and why Catholic, protestant, and orthodox Christians are not Christians?
This doesn’t make much sense
CharlesDarwin@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Well, it seems the same ding-a-lings claiming agnosticism and atheism are religions are also prone to claiming science is a “religion”, following evidence is a “religion”, and so on…
smollittlefrog@lemdro.id 1 year ago
Why is there a “Nothing” under the beliefs? Wouldn’t that fall under “Agnostic”?
krayj@sh.itjust.works 1 year ago
TIL, my belief in calling out bullshit when I see it is considered a religion now.
Steve@communick.news 1 year ago
I thought the point of Atheism was to escape the alleged intolerant nature of religion.
No. Atheism has no point. It’s merely the default, catch-all, left-over position. Anyone who isn’t convinced of any religion’s gods, becomes atheist automatically, simply for a lack of any other option.
The Jedi and Sith, are both atheist.
zeppo@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Who the fuck knows. Stupid shit like this that barely even makes sense is why Elron is famed for being an incredibly pretentious but dim tool.
MooseBoys@lemmy.world 1 year ago
He’s not wrong in the sense that everyone has their own worldview, and humans need a worldview to process the immense amount of information we are exposed to on a daily basis. Some people incorporate organized religion into their worldview, while others do not.
madcaesar@lemmy.world 1 year ago
The speaker in question? Some right wing Christian lunatic!
starman2112@sh.itjust.works 1 year ago
Always/sometimes is one answer? Isn’t that incredibly awful survey taking practice?
empireOfLove@lemmy.one 1 year ago
“Ree my free speech”
pomodoro_longbreak@sh.itjust.works 1 year ago
Wow so he actually talks like that
Swedneck@discuss.tchncs.de 1 year ago
reminder that every time people complain about wokeness they’re literally just complaining about being conscious about systemic racism, because that’s what woke means.
Just replace “woke” with “being a decent person” and it becomes pretty clear what these people want.
IchNichtenLichten@lemmy.world 1 year ago
“Woke” started out as a simple acknowledgment that a person is conscious of the systemic oppression of various groups. Now the right wing has got its claws into the term it’s been effectively neutered. Now all it means is, “stuff that right wingers don’t like”
It’s like “defund the police” which quickly became “abolish all policing”.
It’s a useful strategy for them and it works to prevent honest discussion on how to solve societal problems by preventing people from having a shared understanding of the language needed for such discussion.
AlternatePersonMan@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Ugh, “defund the police” is a terrible phrase if you actually want the movement to succeed. I wish they would have gone with something along the lines of “police reform”. Immediately every conservative glommed onto “now they want to abolish all police!”
We do need a massive overhaul to police. Unfortunately that means better marketing of the idea of it’s going to happen.
LazaroFilm@lemmy.world 1 year ago
I still have a hard time how “woke” is bad. Woke means your not asleep, it means you are not guided by others. How can people turn this into a bad thing. I’m proud to be woke.
teft@startrek.website 1 year ago
Same happened to the terms “political correctness” and “social justice”. The meaning gets twisted into something grotesque by think tanks and then it’s shipped out to talking heads so Billy-Bob can regurgitate it at the water cooler.
Neato@kbin.social 1 year ago
theyre_the_same_picture.jpg
But yes. The right has polluted yet another word and tried to turn it into a pejorative.
Uranium3006@kbin.social 1 year ago
"It’s like “defund the police” which quickly became “abolish all policing”."
It's actually the other way around. The radical demand got watered down but it didn't slow the fearmongeringbl even a little bit
Turkey_Titty_city@kbin.social 1 year ago
Lots of 'woke' people are shitty people. I've had way too many experiences in the past few years with 'woke' people screaming at me about how I need to read more women authors or I'm a shitty awful human being. Or other equally absurd things, like I'm a bigot if I don't ask you what your pronoun is. If you have a pronoun preference, how about you tell me? Just like you tell someone how to pronounce your name if it's non-standard.
I know lots of progressive people, and I am progressive. But I would never say I am 'woke'. People who self-identify 'woke' tend to be mentally ill crazy people in my encounters, and use their politics as an excuse for abusive and hostile behavior just the way right-wing nazi nutbags do.
Hell I even had a transwoman assault me verbally one day while I was just reading a book in a cafe. Comes up to me and demands that I give her my table because I'm a white cis guy and I should give up my 'privileged' to her. My small business has been harassed by 'woke' activists who demand we give them money or they will say we are anti-black/lgbt+, etc. That's not woke, that's blackmail.
Most 'woke' people I meet are basically 20 sometime trust-fund types who need a cause to give her their miserable lives purpose, because god knows they can't get their shit together and do something positive with their lives. If they did maybe they'd stop being such awful abusive people who threaten and harass others.
IchNichtenLichten@lemmy.world 1 year ago
I’m betting this never happened.
scrubbles@poptalk.scrubbles.tech 1 year ago
I’ll take “Things that never happened” for 600, Alex
archiotterpup@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Most of those people are the types to virtue signal because they know they benefit from an unjust system but won’t work to dismantle it.
I’ve never known someone to identify as “woke”.
SaltySalamander@kbin.social 1 year ago
Yea I don't believe any of this. =)
SuddenlyBlowGreen@lemmy.world 1 year ago
That transwoman? Albertina Einstein.
FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 1 year ago
You do sound like a shitty awful human being if I’m to be honest.
neanderthal@lemmy.world 1 year ago
That’s worse. That sort of shit turns ignorant and gullible people anti-LGBT and makes their already difficult lives even harder.
Tell them to fight global warming. It is the problem that makes all other problems all but irrelevant in comparison.
doleo@lemmy.one 1 year ago
I honestly can’t believe that using this word unironically has caught on. Everything I think is just a stupid joke on the internet turns out to be the internet reflecting just how idiotic humanity really is.
Either that, or just an unpleasant shock at just how ‘mask-off’ some people have become.
Maeve@kbin.social 1 year ago
I’m going with the “mask off” probability.
LazaroFilm@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Atheism is refusal of forced ideas upon someone. Which means one has to use critical thinking to determine their path in life. The problem is that it’s much harder to control the masses if that population thinks for themselves.
CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org 1 year ago
Hey! It’s “being a decent person in a way not sanctioned by their local culture”. If you’re decent to the correct people with enough pandering imagery that’s fine.
Blamemeta@lemm.ee 1 year ago
Except woke people aren’t decent. Some woke people have good intentions, sure, but they aren’t decent. Being woke means being evil.
Swedneck@discuss.tchncs.de 1 year ago
this is actually incoherent
Carighan@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Well, do explain then.
Jimbo@yiffit.net 1 year ago
Haha oh yeah I’ve seen your around. Fuck off.
Daft_ish@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Kinda like being against anti-fascists… aka fascists.