Submitted 1 year ago by The_Picard_Maneuver@lemmy.world to startrek@startrek.website
https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/a4caeb12-f236-4b77-8f5d-6eb9e8421159.jpeg
It’s so bizarre to read this in the present, knowing how incredible TNG was, but I get it - the original crew WAS Star Trek to them.
The dedicated fans revived this series in syndication, well after it had gone off the air in 1969, and felt attached to the characters that they had obsessed over between then and the 1980s. Like modern fans, they thought that departure from what they knew would ruin it.
I wish I could go back and time and tell them that TNG is going to rock.
TNG > OG series any day, everyday.
It took me a long time to reach this conclusion. I love TOS, and the characters are cultural icons, but when I want to fanboy over the whole “philosophy” of Star Trek, I’m thinking of TNG every single time.
I’ll probably get wrecked in here for saying this,but I never liked TOS. It’s so campy and hokey. Even the movies with the original cast don’t interest me all that much. I respect them for paving the way for TNG, but I’ll never choose TOS over TNG.
That is very well said. Tng embodies the philosophy of start trek better.
Unfair advantage, TNG has Picard.
Picard is definitely the top card there, but seriously the rest of the cast was damn good too.
Star Trek: Picard has Picard too…
Season one of TNG was compared to TOS and TNG didn’t fare too well early on. The Naked Now? A copy of The Naked Time. Data trying to be human was compared to Spock. LaForge wasn’t like Scotty.
It wasn’t until the show developed into its own thing that it became great.
Laforge wasn’t the engineer season one, right?
It’s also funny that the article suggests that Laforge is the new Spock, and not obviously Data.
If you read the initial material, Data is drastically different. There is no explicit mention of being unemotional, just that he tends to speak more formally. He’s supposed to be more like the Ilia probe than Spock.
Worf didn’t exist at first, so Geordi the teacher with bionic vision would be the most “other” character. If they’d seen any of the early press material for Phase II, Spock’s replacement there was a very junior officer.
Wow, could you imagine the show without Worf? It just wouldn’t feel right.
I never got into original series (and I existed before TNG) but something about TNG clicked.
Picard was a man of culture, not some Macho man to sleep with aliens of different colours.
Riker really came into his own as a second and had a different personality and perspective that added to the show
Data explored the concepts of AI and sentience and that mankind could create a new being (The measure of a man episode).
Jordi Laforge was inspiring that people with disabilities could be important and high ranking and overcome those challenges.
Sure, OS has its charm with fake Scottish man and Sulu and the radical idea not all Russians were insane. But I mean, Bones was just such a cliche (dammit Jim) and never really grew on me the way I’m sure he did the generation that loved John Wayne.
Yeah, what was revolutionary in the 1960s (humans of all nationalities working together) wouldn’t have been enough in 1987, but I appreciate that it set the groundwork for the series as a whole.
The acting in TOS is over the top and often silly, but I try to watch it as a product of its time - audiences didn’t really want their shows to have an edge or get deeply philosophical back then, so Roddenberry and team had to sneak that type of stuff in where they could. I have a soft spot for TOS and the campy characters and still think it’s a fun lighthearted watch.
I mean let’s be real here they had every right to be concerned. TNG had serious problems in the beginning and had some pretty big flaws even as the show got going. Off the top of my head
I’m watching TNG now with someone who’s never seen it before, and that’s making me ‘see’ the show with fresh eyes. The first few episodes are so hard to get through. Some are straight up cringey. Many remember Code of Honor and Last Outpost as being horrible, but Naked Now is awful in its own way. Don’t get me wrong: TNG goes on to be an excellent, culture-defining show. When people talk about how good it is, they’re probably thinking about Measure of a Man, Inner Light, Darmok, and Best of Both Worlds.
Let me add that DS9, Voyager, and Enterprise got to build on the risks that TNG took. Those shows were more consistently good at their starts.
The Naked Now was a bizarre choice for such an early episode. It’s the very first one after the premiere, and it’s based on the crew acting out of character – before the audience has had time to learn what their personalities are supposed to be.
Completely irrelevant to the topic, but my personal head canon is that Janeway admired Worf’s S1 Hair and copied it when she was given Voyager to command.
She definitely wore it better.
Without any context, you could easily assume that Riker’s beard is what really made TNG work.
They straight up got rid of crusher for a season
I believe McFadden was fired, which was why she disappeared.
TNG had serious problems in the beginning and had some pretty big flaws even as the show got going. Off the top of my head
You’re not wrong. I think the only main character that really had any development in the first 2 seasons is Dr Pulaski, going from someone completely unfamiliar with Data, and conscious machinery, to being an ardent supporter of his. We had a little but in Data settling into being an emotionless Android trying to learn to be more human, and Geordi becoming Chief Engineer, but they were very minor background tweaks to the characters.
Everyone else barely changed at all in that time, except for Lt. Yar, who went from being a living breathing person to corpse.
The Ferengi
they were awful, but they did give me a good basis for imagining wolf-of-wall-street types
Sigh.
Ok, let’s hear what you think the racism and sexism was.
well when I googled “racism in star trek tng” i got “code of honor” so maybe start there
Have you watched season 1?
Did you skip over Code of Honor? Wouldn’t blame you if you did, of course.
I love the first few episodes, I prefer babyface riker, and I think Dick Picard was a cool badass who I fully support.
But they should have kept Crusher, and the political conflicts were a ridiculous joke epitomized by the cartoonish ferengi. S3 gave us much better aesthetics and politics (though the new character driven storytelling might be a matter of taste).
Haha, Spock wasn’t really placed by LaForge. Spock was replaced by Data.
Somehow every character except the black man has a name, and every actor except the black one gets a serious headshot. hmm.
Wdym, Burton has a normal photo and the character is named among the others. Stewart’s picture is from a performance, so also different.
Also funny how you’re complaining about someone not getting named, and you’re just referring to him as a black man.
Yeah, who even thought that for a second?
I grew up with Next Generation first, sitting on my dad’s lap watching the show with him.
When I first watched TOS I remember seeing Spock and saying, “oh yeah, the original Data”.
Especially since Spock was often described by Bones as being a walking computer, and Data was described as an Android. It would be less of a logical leap than having Geordi be the new Spock.
I remember thinking, “I don’t wanna watch a Trek without Spock,” and then Data came along and I was hooked.
Was that part of the marketing at the time, or just some bizarre leap from the author? I’m having a hard time finding any good comparisons between La Forge and Spock. In season 1 Geordi wasn’t even an engineering officer, let alone the science officer. He was a helmsman, so in that sense more comparable to Sulu or Chekhov, and he certainly doesn’t have anything like the relationship with the captain that Spock did.
Is it just because he was a recognizable name at the time? It’s just a weird leap to make.
It’s always funny looking back at stuff like this. I remember looking at old articles about Catherine Tate becoming a companion in doctor who and people were furious - and in retrospect not only was she one of the best companions, but that was probably the greatest era of the show.
Heath Ledger is another classic example. I remember the Internet being so confused and mad about the choice. ‘The 10 Things I Hate About You guy!?’
Same thing with Michael Keaton as Batman. He was still Mr Mom at that point.
I came here to post this. I remember someone insisting it was like casting Gary Coleman as Two-Face.
Although the response wasn’t as strong, there were fans who were also convinced that Robert Downey Jr. was a poor fit for Tony Stark.
Nobody dislikes Star Trek as much as Star Trek fans.
I thought that was a Star Wars thing, but I guess it’s just a thing in general. For reference I like it all, Star Wars, Star Trek, TOS, TNG
“LeVar Burton: The new Spock” 👀
There were Star Trek fans at the time screaming from the rooftops about how TNG would ruin Star Trek. Before TNG even aired. But, there were also Star Trek fans who, while disappointed to not have the TOS crew back, were curious about what TNG was going to bring to the table. And, really happy to have a Star Trek series again. But, “Curious Trekkies Wait to See What’s What with TNG” wasn’t going to sell as many papers and stir up as much drama.
“Bad Trek is better than no Trek” was the begrudging opinion for the first season of TNG.
Lol. That was it. I’m glad TNG had more seasons, getting better and better as time went on.
Want it 20 years later too? I mean the og crew probably didn’t want to come back
Yeah. The TOS cast did movies, but there’s a difference between doing a film and doing a weekly series. TOS was comfort viewing, and fans were going to fan in wanting more of the same.
There were Star Trek fans at the time screaming from the rooftops about how TNG would ruin Star Trek.
Is this what people had to do to spread their word before the internet?
Clickbait certainly existed well before clicks did.
Well, they probably have one point - how many modern Trek fans have even watched TOS?
Surely most, right?
I’m a millennial, and TOS was my first introduction to Trek.
A lot, I think. At the time of TNG’s initial broadcast, TOS was omnipresent in syndication. And outside of TAS, the only Star Trek series at the time. Star Trek fans watched the heck out of TOS. Then, the Star Trek movies with the TOS cast. The first four films were released before TNG.
I’ll bet that any TOS fans who were furious at the time probably did not go on to like the show. If they were looking for that witty love/hate triangle of Spock/Kirk/McCoy they didn’t get it.
But as the name suggests, TNG reached a totally new generation of fans. American culture had changed a LOT between these two shows and anyone attached to the old one was either old themselves or hooked on reruns.
TNG didn’t slap big right away, either. It took time to get good and find its audience. But I’m so glad they succeeded.
I say all this to point out that angry fans weren’t actually wrong. The Trek they knew was never coming back. It became a whole other thing for a whole other group of people.
The difference between this and, say, the Star Wars sequels is that those sequels disappointed fans AND failed to find a new audience that was just as dedicated and even larger.
People like to use this article to show that angry fans are just idiots- always there and usually wrong. But the TNG miracle hasn’t been repeated many times, if ever, by any of these other franchise rehashes that a Hollywood has shoved out to grab for cash.
I’ll bet that any TOS fans who were furious at the time probably did not go on to like the show.
As a TOS fan who wasn’t too happy with what I had heard before TNG came out, I would bet against you. Most of them probably became TNG fans eventually, because the most impactful thing a show can do is simply to be great. Canon complaints are mostly about nostalgia, and if the show is compelling (especially if it’s compelling in a similar way to the old show), nostalgia can’t compete. If anything I’d guess that the people in this article were more likely to become fans of TNG, because it would have exceeded their expectations, which can make things seem better than they would otherwise.
Were you really a Trekkie if you thought TNG was going to be good in 1987?
Kidding, sort of. But I remember thinking it was going to be a cash grab, and I still think I was right to think so at the time. Keep in mind, you couldn’t go on the Web and instantly know everything about an upcoming TV show. I think I learned it was in production from the back of a cereal box. I didn’t even know Gene Roddenberry was involved. The Enterprise-D design was pretty weird, and the cast of characters was more than a bit out there–a Klingon? On the Enterprise crew? Come on.
As a kid, I saw a contest on a box of cheerios(?) where you could be an child extra in one of the first TNG episodes. So for most of the first season, I sincerely thought Wil Wheaton/Wesley was the winner.
Anyway, the first few episodes during season 1 were not great, but I was content to finally get some new material. I’m glad TNG had enough time to “find its own groove”.
Man, that cereal box really launched Wheaton’s career. Haha
It’s fair to have expected TNG to be a cash grab. I’m sure TNG was a cash grab among all the other things it was. We all want to get paid, after all. I’m just glad it turned out to be so much more as well.
I’m reminded of the letters page of Aquaman in the issue after he lost his hand.
“To those of you saying we did it for the shock value, we have this to say for ourselves: we sure didn’t do it for the boredom value.”
If you’ve seen the original Battlestar Galactica you’ll know why they were worried.
Only good thing about that show was that in space, bras were unpopular.
That’s because, according to renown space expert George Lucas, wearing a bra in space would strangle the wearer, which is why Princess Leia jiggled her way around the Death Star. So, it’s not that they were unpopular, just that they were a safety issue.
I mean, she wasn’t jiggling. Carrie had often complained about how tightly bound she was, he specifically didn’t want that look either. Nothing at all in that outfit would have honestly made a huge difference in how the whole thing felt I think, at least in hindsight it would really cheapen it.
Help Geordi is staring into my soul.
This is why I don’t pay attention to the initial nerd reception
Angry neckbeards never change. Check out the reaction to the casting of Burton’s Batman
Levar already looking blind in his photo, he must’ve been researching the role
Apparently the most recognisable name was Levar Burton, being in Roots and Reading Rainbow.
Might be wrong but I think they used a picture of Bronson Pinchot instead of Brent Spiner. Now I really wanna see Data acting like Balki from Perfect Strangers.
The perspective is interesting and enlightening. For me, TNG was MY Star Trek. The first episode aired when I was 5 years old and I watched every episode with my dad over the seven year run.
Part of me grew up on the Enterprise D!
Leave it to the founder of Wendy’s to do a Star Trek hit piece
I wish I could go back in time and tell them that TNG is going to rock.
Don't worry, they know now.
I recall this being posted ad nauseum on r/startrek, and the comments were always full of people using it to dismiss any and all criticism of Discovery and/or Picard. Nice to see that not being rehashed here.
I still remember when they Poochied the lesbian security guard.
That’s some tasty retro-nerdiness.
At least it reads like they were upset about diversity
“The Reading Rainbow guy on MY Star Trek?! Oh god, is he gonna read a book to the shields to get them to hold?”
How the hell does Gates McFadden look better now than she did 20 years ago
ramble81@lemm.ee 1 year ago
“unknown British Shakespearian actor…” Wow, I never thought I’d hear Patrick Stewart described that way.
GreenMario@lemm.ee 1 year ago
I think he was just an extra in the movie Excalibur before TNG, outside of stage.
daikiki@lemmy.world 1 year ago
How dare you disrespect Gurney Halleck like that?
Xbeam@lemmy.world 1 year ago
The picture in the article is him as Gurney in Dune.
theodewere@kbin.social 1 year ago
lol he wasn't an extra.. he had a hugely important role.. he was Guenevere's father for crying out loud, they fought a huge battle at his castle and everything.. he tries to draw the freaking sword itself!!
Todd_cross@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 year ago
He was great as Sejanus in I, Claudius.
AngrilyEatingMuffins@kbin.social 1 year ago
He was in I, Claudius. He’d been in stuff.
Pipoca@lemmy.world 1 year ago
He wasn’t well- known, but had had a bunch of assorted roles on TV and movies.
Amazed@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Shlock shock journalism to sell issues.