Solar thermal is kinda obsolete I thought, now China is churning out PVs for pennies.
Turbines are our friends
Submitted 2 months ago by morto@piefed.social to science_memes@mander.xyz
https://media.piefed.social/posts/JY/1E/JY1EDziM4M0FcX0.png
Comments
Alcoholicorn@mander.xyz 2 months ago
freebee@sh.itjust.works 2 months ago
But t solar boiler can still be useful in some cases. Where heated water in “solar” on the roof is used immediately for shower etc.
Redjard@reddthat.com 2 months ago
Modern solar into a modern heat pump is gonna be more efficient than heating water. It’s also more versatile and convenient, cause it maintains that efficiency when you pull power from the grid at night. And of course lets you use the power for other purposes.
megopie@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 months ago
Solar thermal has some distinct advantages when you start talking about really big instillations. Especially when considering power storage, molten salt systems can store heat and allow the generators to keep working even at night. Much cheaper than batteries at very large scales.
Thermal solar systems are generally very efficient when the goal is heating something, not just generating power. So say, you want to run an ammonia plant without burning natural gas, or if you want to melt down metals for recycling. There are so many industrial applications where it’s a better way of doing it than using an electric heating element.
oneser@lemmy.zip 2 months ago
I mean it seems the more complex solution in deployment for sure, but its design could still have use in low heat industrial uses (sub 250°C, e.g. food prep, textile, sanitation etc.) where it is used heat -> heat rather than heat -> electricity -> heat. Maybe these replace thermal collectors eventually.
But that is not the point of this article, just my thoughts.
rumschlumpel@feddit.org 2 months ago
IDK, heat pumps are basically multiplying the electricity they use.
VibeSurgeon@piefed.social 2 months ago
For heating I’d guess it can still be relevant. As a means of producing electricity though? Yeah
megopie@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 months ago
I really like the concentrated solar systems that use molten salt, where rather than heating water directly, molten salt is heated and stored In large insulated tanks and tapped off to a heat exchanger to run the turbines, thus allowing power generation to match demand and continue at a constant rate even when light level very (such as at night).
One interesting idea is to use a concentrated solar system to run an Einstein–Szilard refrigerator, or some other absorption refrigerator cycle.
rothaine@lemmy.zip 2 months ago
What are the tanks made of? “Molten salt” sounds like it would fuck up most materials
megopie@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 months ago
Various common steels with a bunch of insulation around it usually, sometimes with a thin coating. The potassium/sodium/calcium nitrate mixes that are used with concentrated solar systems operating in range between 200 C and 600 C. So like, yah you don’t want to touch it, but it’s not gonna do much to steel. It can be somewhat corrosive, but, this is fairly easily mitigated by design.
Molten salt for heat transfer and thermal storage is a pretty mature technology that goes way back before we started using it in concentrated solar systems.
I_am_10_squirrels@beehaw.org 2 months ago
As a first guess, I would use glass fused to steel tanks. I would need to do a detailed look at material compatibility, talk to vendors, and run some bench scale studies before I moved forward with anything.
Source: am licensed engineer
oppy1984@lemdro.id 2 months ago
It all boils down to steam…
johnefrancis@lemmy.ca 2 months ago
why are there 2 people in suits?
Noodle07@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Mandatory clothing in our utopian solarpunk society of course
WhiskyTangoFoxtrot@lemmy.world 2 months ago
The third guy was busy that day.
NutWrench@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Human sacrifices to the Turbine Gods.
lightnsfw@reddthat.com 2 months ago
Have we even tried powering our turbines with CEO blood?
Soup@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Stock assets to show scale, probably.
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world 2 months ago
gotta dress up to visit the machine god
PolarKraken@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 months ago
Your machine god likes fancy shoes 😂 Embarrassing.
These generic suits are sacrificial “meat candles”. They do what they sound like, and everyone knows shoes just kinda get in the way and slow things down. Simple as. Power don’t flow quite right without a few of these suits startin to sizzle just right, oughta have yer meat candles primed before ya start 'er up.
Fancy shoes! The things ya read on the Internet, by golly.
OldChicoAle@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Someone needs to take credit for the work of engineers and manual laborers.
AffineConnection@lemmy.world 2 months ago
men in black
m3t00@lemmy.world 2 months ago
johnefrancis@lemmy.ca 2 months ago
even the Mormons are solar now?
humanspiral@lemmy.ca 2 months ago
This is old technology that is more expensive/complicated/maintenance-ey than PV. An economic falacy is that if you have oil/fossils you should use that instead of solar. It’s always better to use cheapest energy. Export the fossils, import solar. It is more jobs to have solar as well, and in fact most of the deployment costs are local work/materials (wiring/support structures).
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world 2 months ago
now hear me out. what if we just boiled water in it. why do we have to get all fucky with it.
CapuccinoCoretto@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Punches below the belt. Right in the photovoltaics.
Bombastic@sopuli.xyz 2 months ago
They can’t keep getting away with this!!
AdolfSchmitler@lemmy.world 2 months ago
fubarx@lemmy.world 2 months ago
OwOarchist@pawb.social 2 months ago
At least hydro and wind power are still safe from the boiling water…
morto@piefed.social 2 months ago
Still safe so far
bstix@feddit.dk 2 months ago
Hydro is the OG boiled water.
Sun heats water. Water evaporates. Go up high. Falls down. Turn turbine.
Wind power is a side effect of the same process happening on a rotating globe.
OwOarchist@pawb.social 2 months ago
Water evaporates.
Evaporation =/= boiling.
BeatTakeshi@lemmy.world 2 months ago
It’s called CSP en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concentrated_solar_power
EmptyAsparagus@piefed.social 2 months ago
guys its literally in fallout, so its canon.
Skullgrid@lemmy.world 2 months ago
EmptyAsparagus@piefed.social 2 months ago
nice, thanks!
A_Chilean_Cyborg@feddit.cl 2 months ago
Yes, Everything, always turns back to mechanical enginnering.
Quill7513@slrpnk.net 2 months ago
carcinization but for steam engines instead of crabs
panda_abyss@lemmy.ca 2 months ago
With all the solar mirrors, won’t we overhear the sun shooting all that light back?
chromeleon@lemmy.world 2 months ago
there’s a silencer on its gun, so we probably won’t hear much.
nutsack@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 months ago
ah yes the bird blaster
pedz@lemmy.ca 2 months ago
I know this is a meme community but I was curious about this. It seems some birds do get burned, but not blasted. It varies a lot depending on the installation and it can also be mitigated. Also, the amount of birds dying from this is significantly lower than just the amount of birds hitting windows. For the benefit of other curious people, I’ll try to condense the relevant information from wikipedia and the sources.
In more general terms, a 2016 preliminary study assessed that the annual bird mortality per MW of installed power was similar between U.S. concentrated solar power plants and wind power plants, and higher for fossil fuel power plants.
How it was calculated for fossil fuel
Sovacool estimated avian mortality from fossil fuel power plants across the United States as a result of collision with infrastructure, electrocutions, pollution and contamination, and climate change. In addition, Sovacool estimated climate change-induced avian mortality (in terms of habitat loss and changes in migration) predicted to be the result of fossil fuel power plant operations.
A preliminary assessment of avian mortality at utility-scale solar energy facilities in the United States: www.sciencedirect.com/…/S0960148116301422?via=ihu…
Review of Avian Mortality Studies at Concentrating Solar Power Plants: www.osti.gov/servlets/purl/1364837
sexy_peach@feddit.org 2 months ago
wait these could be built with co2 turbines as well, right??
megopie@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 months ago
Yes, super critical CO2 turbines can work in such a system. As can sterling engines. Or thermoelectric solid state couples.
Any system that uses a temperature differential to generate power can be used. It’s just a matter of what you care about in a given situation. Upfront cost, mechanical reliability, noise/vibration, and availability of needed components play in to what makes the most sense.
DarkSpectrum@lemmy.world 2 months ago
heat transfer fluid is circulated
solar battery pumps?
Aeao@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Spaceman meme
“It’s just boiling water?”
“Always has been”
mindbleach@sh.itjust.works 2 months ago
Seems iffy outside of totally clear skies.
queerlilhayseed@piefed.blahaj.zone 2 months ago
It turns out spinning things is really useful and boiling fluids is a convenient way to spin things.
state_electrician@discuss.tchncs.de 2 months ago
It’s still funny that so much boils down to steampunk with a fake mustache.
rants_unnecessarily@piefed.social 2 months ago
Wait, it’s all steampunk?
Always had been.
f314@lemmy.world 2 months ago
I see what you did there!
fluffykittycat@slrpnk.net 2 months ago
“I’ll try spinning! That’s a good trick!”
queerlilhayseed@piefed.blahaj.zone 2 months ago
Wisdom from a Jedi born to bring balance to things.
llii@discuss.tchncs.de 2 months ago
But spinning is so much cooler than not spinning!
youtu.be/g9XrrEaZ7Y4?t=188