My union dues last pay? 30 dollars. My union just got the government of Ontario, the shitbag conservatives, who tried to illegally withhold raises from us, and won. My union guarantees I get a set wage because they bargain for it.
Amazon anti Union propaganda
Submitted 1 year ago by STRIKINGdebate2@lemmy.world to mildlyinfuriating@lemmy.world
https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/43a85d08-4c68-4c31-9268-a715e74e65a1.jpeg
Comments
BonesOfTheMoon@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Potatos_are_not_friends@lemmy.world 1 year ago
My wife’s union costs her $8 a paycheck.
It also gave her 9 more PTO days, better healthcare, and negotiated to triple any outside-of-work calls because the company used to do a thing where they would send you home, and then call you back later. Wtf.
9point6@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Hasn’t Amazon been caught deducting pay arbitrarily from delivery drivers?
In fact, given a lot of them seem to be able to be terminated at a moment’s notice, so no guarantees of pay there either.
Oh and talking to someone paid by the company about your grievances Vs someone independent seems like a worse alternative than the final bubble.
Man, these guys really suck at propaganda
H1jAcK@lemm.ee 1 year ago
They suck at propaganda because the claims are unverifiable lies? That’s not really the point of propaganda. Did it scare a number of employees into voting no on a union? If yes, then they propaganda’d just fine.
Rentlar@lemmy.ca 1 year ago
I’m so glad Amazon guarantees I’m going to be cucked on wages and job security.
said no worker ever.
theneverfox@pawb.social 1 year ago
I’m not sure how you can spin to be convincing through your arguments… It’s a pretty indefensible position intellectually
This is actually part of a pretty valid strategy. The trick is to flood them with the conclusion - they don’t need to be able to recite talking points, they just need to think “a union could be troublesome”. I’d also spread stories about Union busting (not with a paper trail!) And have dozens of these posters with different, unmemorable arguments
If you convince someone “unions are bad because they have problems with corruption”, they can be sat down, shown the numbers, the transparency measures, and how members could democratically boot out leadership if things go wrong. Their concern is dispelled, and if they accept the argument they’re solidly on team union and distrustful of management.
If you flood them with weak arguments that make sense on the surface but fall apart if you think about them, they’re left with the impression of an argument against unions. They aren’t going to remember it, and if they do it’ll sound like it couldn’t be right to say it out loud, but they felt that way. And they’re smart, so they must have been convinced by a better argument they just can’t remember clearly.
This is what subliminal messaging actually looks like, this shit is evil
jimbo@lemmy.world 1 year ago
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The amount paid for dues is greatly exceeded by the benefits of having a union.
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You ARE guaranteed pay, benefits, and rules because you have a contract with the employer that covers those things.
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Are these morons suggesting that the union will take over for management?
Kimano@lemmy.world 1 year ago
No the usual ‘argument’ that references is that it you have a complaint or preference or comment or whatever about your work or job duties, you have to bring it to your union rep, rather than talk directly with your employers management. Somehow that’s supposed to be an argument against unions.
Schadrach@lemmy.sdf.org 1 year ago
Are these morons suggesting that the union will take over for management?
Some unions make disciplinary processes and who can be terminated under what conditions part of the contract. In the worst cases this creates a scenario where bad workers are functionally impossible to fire and the people there actually trying to get their work done have to deal with it, because the bad apple hasn’t been written up for identical violations on at least 3 different dates in the last 90 days, then been provided with explicit written directions of how not to do what they’ve been doing in a meeting with management and the union rep, then given another month before reevaluating if they’ve corrected the issue, then suspending them if they haven’t, then doing the whole process over again before being allowed to fire them. Passing the improvement plan evaluation resets the whole thing. Presuming what they’re doing isn’t an immediate risk of injury or death, that is (that has an expedited process).
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Chunk@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Boss: kids your age are so incredibly arrogant. You think you deserve the world.
Me: we are the same age.
Boss: huh
This actually happened.
KiLlEr10312@lemmy.world 1 year ago
People really out here thinking that if you’re a supervisor you just get like 20 years older lmao
jmcs@discuss.tchncs.de 1 year ago
Is union life for you?
It depends. Probably yes, unless your employer pulls shit like this, in which case you should have joined yesterday
LastYearsPumpkin@feddit.ch 1 year ago
Yup, if your employer is so dedicated to making sure you don’t join a union that they make posters about it, then you definitely need to join a union.
Unaware7013@kbin.social 1 year ago
No guarantees on pay, benefits, or work rules
Uuuhhhhhhh, isn't that the current state and literally what unions are for? Setting guarantees for all that shit?
Filthmontane@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Yeah, the whole point is having a legally binding contract that sets wages, hours, and working conditions. Also the “going through your union instead of your manager” is super dumb. It’s like saying, “why talk to your lawyer when you can just confess to the police?”
CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org 1 year ago
No guarantee as in “theoretically, we could fold up our entire business instead of bothering to negotiate”. They won’t, of course, but it’s not liably false (IANAL) because there’s a valid weird hypothetical.
Lyrl@lemm.ee 1 year ago
Not a hypothetical: Hostess folded, as did Yellow trucking. Unions can’t save a business from bad business decisions or destructive market forces.
But businesses fold all the time, union or no union. When business is good, unions make sure the employees get a fair piece of that.
magnetosphere@kbin.social 1 year ago
They make union dues seem like a big deal, but not unionizing will cost you even more. A union will pay for itself when they negotiate a raise.
You have much fewer guarantees on pay, benefits, and work rules without a union on your side. Amazon can, and does, change policies at will. A union keeps them in check.
Bringing complaints directly to your supervisor or manager will solve nothing, and in the process, it will get you on their shit list. Sometimes, anonymity is priceless.
Rhynoplaz@lemmy.world 1 year ago
You have much fewer guarantees on pay, benefits, and work rules without a union on your side.
I disagree. Without a union, I CAN GUARANTEE you’re getting screwed.
Not_Alec_Baldwin@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Costco.
It’s not all companies that are trash. It’s just most.
Kilamaos@lemmy.world 1 year ago
I’m very pro union. But not all unions are good. My father’s union is so bad he might actually be losing money. They just roll over for management to fuck them, barely negotiate anything at all. Last time, they ‘negotiated’ an increase in pay, and the increase was actually SMALLER than the increase in union dues.
Oh, and they only defend the worst of the worst. Litteral thief, stealing, caught on camera, multiple times ? Well defend you tooth and nails. 'Til the management litterally had to get police involved for them to back down.
Unions in general are good. But for some specific unions, ymmv.
magnetosphere@kbin.social 1 year ago
100% agree. Some of my “favorites” are police unions, when they go to bat for obvious criminals. You or I would go to jail under the same circumstances, but those assholes don’t even get a reprimand, and still have authority over others.
Reddfugee42@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Not all anything is good. That’s not how real life works. There’s only statistics. And statistically speaking, unions are the better choice.
jimbo@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Oh, and they only defend the worst of the worst.
Naw, more likely people only hear about the most dramatic examples. The every-day, my boss is picking on me stuff rarely gets much attention and is generally resolved quietly.
Litteral thief, stealing, caught on camera, multiple times ? Well defend you tooth and nails. 'Til the management litterally had to get police involved for them to back down.
The severity of the accusation shouldn’t disqualify someone from their union defending them. Also, for a criminal matter, why didn’t they go the police to begin with?
jimbo@lemmy.world 1 year ago
That’s because too many union members treat their union like a service being provided to them instead of something they’re providing for themselves. A union is what the members make it, and if people aren’t participating then yeah, it will probably suck.
Not_Alec_Baldwin@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Costco is (afaik) not unionized, though the company is union friendly (there may be unionized stores?). They are publicly traded. And workers are paid better than a living wage and have a bunch of benefits.
The company chooses to do this despite their shareholder responsibility, and I will never shut up about it.
Once you’re getting a fair shake, if the company establishes trust, you can get rid of the union. And the company can save the money they spend trying to ruin your lives on something else instead. Not all companies are trash.
But most are.
It’s absolutely vital for governments to promote workers’ ability to unionize and provide employees with rights to protect them from corporate greed.
Son_of_dad@lemmy.world 1 year ago
My union dues are tax deductible too where I live
Mothra@mander.xyz 1 year ago
My area of work doesn’t have unions.
That last paragraph is absolutely true. I’ve experienced it first hand.
Swedneck@discuss.tchncs.de 1 year ago
make it have unions
MargotRobbie@lemmy.world 1 year ago
The fact that they have it on this blatant of a propaganda poster means that unions work.
And going through union for what you need is much more effective and quicker than letting a supervisor/manager drag their feet and kick the ball around, and that’s what makes union dues worth it.
Not_Alec_Baldwin@lemmy.world 1 year ago
That’s because the manager is incentivized to not help you, while the union is incentivized to help you.
Unions are game-theoretically necessary.
Natanael@slrpnk.net 1 year ago
If employers have organizations advocating for them, it only makes sense for employees to have the same
Pipoca@lemmy.world 1 year ago
The fact that they have it on this blatant of a propaganda poster means that unions work.
Not necessarily.
A poster this blatant means unions are bad for management.
It doesn’t prove that unions aren’t bad for both workers and management alike. Business isn’t a zero sum game. To show that something helps workers, you need to demonstrate that it helps workers.
Which is to say, this poster is a bad argument for unions. The success of the writers strike, on the other hand, is a good argument of how unions protect workers from the bad deals management offers.
mo_lave@reddthat.com 1 year ago
“Dues deducted from paycheck” and “typically must go through union instead of your supervisor or manager” are true. At the same time, they’re minor inconveniences compared to what a bad employer does to you.
TheSanSabaSongbird@lemdro.id 1 year ago
As I said in another comment, my dues are automatically paid through my PTO account which in turn is paid into by my employer. So yeah, it’s still my money, but it’s not coming out of my paycheck at all and I honestly don’t even notice it.
At least in my area, most of your big trade unions have this as an option for members through the IBEW credit union.
therealrjp@lemm.ee 1 year ago
It’s not always necessary to ‘go through the union’ instead of speaking with your manager. For pay, conditions and other disputes, yes, you’d want the collective bargaining of a union to get the best deal. For other things, it’s not always necessary.
I had a fall at work a couple of years ago. I fractured my ankle and was away from work until it healed and I could work again. When I returned, the problem area that lead to my fall hadn’t been looked at. I raised it with management myself and they dealt with my concerns and rectified the issue. I informed my health and safety union rep of what I was doing and he agreed to take it up if necessary. It wasn’t.
The company I work for has a long history of working with unions. They obviously have their motivations to improve efficiency and profitability but generally aren’t arseholes about it. The toxic culture I see in other companies only comes about when bosses can get away with murder because employees aren’t able to stand together.
sverit@feddit.de 1 year ago
I personally prefer going through the union instead of my supervisor. Less stressful for me.
GiddyGap@lemm.ee 1 year ago
Typically must go through union instead of your supervisor or manager
Major plus in my book.
Garbanzo@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Very major, especially because it goes both ways. Hey Manager, if you got a problem with me take it up with my union rep.
orphiebaby@lemm.ee 1 year ago
“Get informed”
Bold of you to tell people to do something that dangerous, Amazon.
ElBarto@sh.itjust.works 1 year ago
Obviously that image is of a manager, you can tell by its over confident and under qualified stance.
Gorgeous_Sloth@sh.itjust.works 1 year ago
I’m from France where unions are kinda everywhere and workers rights well protected : what the hell is this ? Is it real ?
loie@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Can’t say if this particular one is real but this definitely tracks in the USA. I’ve worked for companies that have mandatory meetings where anti union consultants will play out this kind of propaganda in real time.
WeirdGoesPro@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 year ago
It’s real. Welcome to America! We rebrand the idea of slavery every 100 years or so to great success!
LemmyRefugee@lemmy.world 1 year ago
In Spain it’s mandatory to have unions for companies with at least 10 employees.
Mandy@sh.itjust.works 1 year ago
Wait so…having to go through your supervisor and manager is listed as a plus??? america or not, aint noone likes going through that, usually
float@feddit.de 1 year ago
The “effective due” is probably even negative because the extra money they’ll fight for will be more than the due.
MTLion3@lemm.ee 1 year ago
Always love it when the people in charge know something is bad for THEM but good for US and they just throw a tasteful graphic spouting some bullshit on a page to change minds. They did this in Columbus about Issue 1 like a month ago, saying how upping the Majority Vote to 60% for state bills was just a good thing, even though it was just to prepare for issue 1 in November to repeal backwards ass Abortion Laws. It was obvious too since it was like all the pamphlet talked about
CitizenKong@lemmy.world 1 year ago
There’s no guarentee you will get more money! Get the same money or less guarenteed instead!
VikingHippie@lemmy.wtf 1 year ago
Why sleep in cotton sheets on a spring mattress for $1 in dues when we can offer this manure-soaked bed of straw for only $5 in wage theft?
not_exactly@feddit.de 1 year ago
go through union instead of your supervisor or manager
So they’re threatening workers with a good time? Interesting strategy.
Bonehead@kbin.social 1 year ago
The union dues from my last pay period was $32.
My pay and benefits were hard fought for and won by my union, including back pay through arbitration when we got stiffed of pay for a particular part of our job for a few years.
When I have a problem, I go to my supervisor. Usually things get fixed. If they don't want to fix it, I go to my union rep and things usually get fixed fast. If they don't, I go to my union grievance officer and things definitely get fixed fast. The last thing my supervisor wants to do is deal with the union rep, let alone the grievance officer, so having those 2 backing me up goes a VERY LONG WAY over just dealing with my supervisor by myself.
Don't believe the propaganda from people with a vested interest against your rights as an employee...
heavyladder63@lemmy.world 1 year ago
If you want to join a union: join-a-union.github.io
ChaoticNeutralCzech@feddit.de 1 year ago
I sharpened the QR code. It reads:
Very surprised they didn’t put
?campaign=qr,/qror other such crap in it to measure its effectiveness as opposed to the printed URL.(Saved you a click: domain is on sale, not really used after 2022. Archive)
HerbalGamer@lemm.ee 1 year ago
Very Infuriating.
norgur@discuss.tchncs.de 1 year ago
Wait… are they saying that I could have sent my employees to the Union instead of endless discussions about next year’s pto distribution? Could you not have said that sooner?!
tdawg@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Should be illegal. Vote for pro union protections people!
MoonRaven@feddit.nl 1 year ago
Disgusting.
NathanielThomas@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Ask! (Whether borderline slavery is for you)
EnderMB@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Given how big a shitshow Amazon is, both in fulfillment and corporate, I’m shocked that they weren’t the first tech company to fully unionise.
Well, I say that knowing that there are lots of people that are extremely anti-union, even those that have suffered due to RTO/RTT, or Amazon’s infamous PIP culture.
And I say this knowing that Amazon workers could happily form a union with 250k workers, and Amazon would happily fire them without a thought, even if it actively harmed them.
HuddaBudda@kbin.social 1 year ago
Dues deduct from your paycheck
So does every other subscription "service.", but we don't talk about the vileness of a Netflix subscription do we?
No guarantees on pay, benefits, or work rules
This is just a lie. I cannot find another angle to it.
Even without a union, there is no guarantees on pay, benefits, or work rules. So the point is moot. It's like saying "Anything is possible" and walking away like you said something sagely.
Typically must go through union instead of your supervisor or manager
Most people wouldn't understand why this matters unless you've been apart of a job where your manager has defended you against your supervisors. Very few people have had this happen, but the idea is that you will have people that DEFEND YOU from your supervisors getting power hungry.
It's not even like your supervisor can't bring accusations against you, it just means that complaints would have to have merit.
SARGEx117@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Legit had someone from my last job start going on a break room tirade about how “those damn unions just want your money” but strangely had no rebuttal when asked why giving them 2% of your paycheck is a bad thing when they negotiated your RAISE to be 15% and your health benefits add up to an additional savings of around 20%.
I’m SO SORRY you’re getting extra money and healthcare rather than the NOTHING you had before.
Spuddaccino@reddthat.com 1 year ago
For union dues, I’ll sometimes bring up strikes. People know that when unions strike, they aren’t working, and when they aren’t working, they aren’t getting paid. What they don’t realize is that most unions pay the employees during strikes, and that money has to come from somewhere.
SARGEx117@lemmy.world 1 year ago
You’re literally partially making sure you still get PAID when shit happens.
Very good point, and I honestly wonder how common that knowledge even is.
Then again, almost all anti-union propaganda hinges on people not knowing enough about the subject to call it out. As with most propaganda.
magnetosphere@kbin.social 1 year ago
I honestly did not know that. I’ve been wondering how, for example, UAW workers can afford to strike for weeks.
CurlyWurlies4All@slrpnk.net 1 year ago
I know this might not apply elsewhere as I’m in Australia, but I always bring up that your union fees are totally tax deductible so you get it all back at tax time.
dojan@lemmy.world 1 year ago
It’s the same people that don’t get socialised healthcare. Union fees are like a tax that’s used to pay people to do work for you, in the case of worker unions, people that negotiate working conditions, benefits, and wages, in addition to lawyers that can both offer legal advice and representation should you be in need of it.
Here in Sweden we have lots of different unions. We have a tenants union that negotiate rent increases, ensure that landlords do their end of the contract, and will help you with legal proceedings should it be required.
There are also various “customer owned” institutions, like my bank, insurance company, and the grocery store I get most of my groceries from. The goal isn’t necessarily massive profits, but enough to sustain and develop the services, with surplus going back to the owners, that is the customers.
It just makes sense. We all make use of schools as children, so funding that with taxes makes sense. It ensures everyone gets a good education, and at least one good meal per day. Same thing applies to healthcare.
SARGEx117@lemmy.world 1 year ago
My mother WORKS IN HEALTHCARE as the intermediary for the hospital network and the insurance companies.
She literally sees the Financials of people every fucking day.
And still she thinks socialized Healthcare would tank the entire US. I’ve shown charts, studies, anecdotal evidence out the wazoo (which is where anecdotal evidence usually comes from) But no, I can’t possibly be right about this, it would mean someone who got stabbed will have to wait on 600 people with the sniffles to be seen by a doctor in 6 months. Because I guess in socialized medicine, triage doesn’t exist? You can’t logic someone out of a position they didn’t logic themselves into.
Nioxic@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 year ago
I will gladly pay a union.
Always worth it. Workers unite! ✊️
STRIKINGdebate2@lemmy.world 1 year ago
And if the US educational system continues the way its going then you all are going to get more people who turn their noses up at unions because they lack the intellectual capacity to release that the short term loss in revenue will lead to long term benefits.
SARGEx117@lemmy.world 1 year ago
I’ve had to explain how tax brackets work to my parents multiple times. And my mother was a math substitute teacher for over a decade before quitting because educational work isn’t worth the bullshit for little pay.
I will always vote for increased education budgets.
subignition@kbin.social 1 year ago
Pretty sure it's been in that territory for a dozen years or two already. 😞
BeefPiano@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Can you provide a link to the cards so we can print them too?
SARGEx117@lemmy.world 1 year ago
When I get home, I’ll work on making a normal printable version!
I have a few hobby machines that do special things, so I have it scattered into a few files to make it go from one machine to the next.
AtariDump@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Hoping that you find them.
cybermass@lemmy.ca 1 year ago
I found the best comment on lemmy
intensely_human@lemm.ee 1 year ago
Did your union negotiate you a 15% raise?
SARGEx117@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Did my union I joined when I got the job get me 15% more than the others already working there?
No.
Did I immediately get a little over 15% compared to similar job listing’s in the area, AND more than 18% more than my previous job?
Yes.