I mean, there’s nothing wrong with improving yourself for the sake of improving yourself.
Anon has a warning for incels
Submitted 3 weeks ago by Early_To_Risa@sh.itjust.works to greentext@sh.itjust.works
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Comments
Ilovethebomb@sh.itjust.works 3 weeks ago
Psythik@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
But what if you improve yourself and then become a better person for nothing? :P
mycodesucks@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
Then you’ll be more valuable to your corporate masters. Everybody wins!
oce@jlai.lu 2 weeks ago
Surprise, surprise, you reached Nirvana.
RaivoKulli@sopuli.xyz 2 weeks ago
Robots arms it is
mycodesucks@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
conicalscientist@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
Incels hasn’t been about that in a long time. It’s already evolved into “self-improvement” by adopting far-right extremist ideology. In particular that of being a hyper-masculine conservative man.
It’s surely been some sort of cult brainwashing. Tear you down with crab bucket mentality. Then build you up according to their doctrine.
shalafi@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
There are some women who want exactly that kind of man. OTOH, even around the reddest part of Florida, most women put something on their dating profile to reject those men. Dated more than ever during the pandemic, yeah, weird, I know, and here’s what I saw and heard.
- Profiles outright saying MAGA can fuck off.
- Profiles saying either they’re “not political” or “no politics”. That’s a dog whistle for no MAGA (more on that).
- Plainly stated liberal views, again, no MAGA.
- Laughingly told one woman before we went out that I was pretty redneck. “Uh, just how redneck?” “I fucking loathe Trump if that’s what you mean.” "OH! Whew. OK."
- More than one date told me guys either went OFF about Trump or went off on THEM about Trump, on the first date.
- Either they gently probed me on politics or flat out refused to speak of it, at least until they knew for sure I wasn’t MAGA. See note about about first dates.
Despite being a middle-aged white guy, my looks and profile were clearly, to me anyway, liberal. Did quite well! LOL, friends and neighbors were making fun of me regarding all the women in and out the house. (That wasn’t on purpose, most just didn’t work out.) As I said, there were a handful of profiles saying “conservatives only, no liberals”. Given the politics of the region, those were shockingly rare.
I can only imagine that going red ain’t working out so well for incels. And the downward spiral continues.
kassiopaea@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 weeks ago
They took “self-improvement” to mean physical health while completely ignoring mental and emotional health.
ilovepiracy@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
physical health is great for passively improving both of those
chunes@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I would even say don’t worry too much about self-improvement. It’s a vague concept that encourages you to be perpetually dissatisfied (possibly to sell you stuff).
You can always be satisfied with who you are. Remember how Mr. Rogers likes you just the way you are? You can extend that kindness to yourself. Once you’ve done that, then you are in the right headspace to lose some weight or improve your income or whatever.
blarghly@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I don’t think you are totally wrong here, but I also want to push back a bit. I’ve seen this kind of take before, and heard it in a different form when I was struggling in my dating life. It took the form “you need to figure out {internal issue} before you start dating.” And the more I read it, the more frustrated I got, because the advice seemed to boil down to “you will only be ready to date once you have committed to a bhuddist monastery, meditated for 10 years straight, and achieved enlightenment. Once all desire has left your heart - including the desire to date someone - you will be ready to date.”
Which is, of course, ridiculous. Overcoming your internal struggles or learning to love yourself is a process. It is a process that almost everyone is engaging in. And no one (or almost no one) really reaches the destination permanently.
Furthermore, we should recognize that overcoming your internal struggles can’t happen in a vacuum - or at least it will be a lot harder that way. Like, really, what should our incel friend do with their time? Literally the exact same thing they’ve been doing their whole lives, except they go to therapy once per week? If that is really all they can manage, I totally support that and applaud them for putting that effort in. But realistically, that needs to be a first step that leads to further action if they ever want to see significant changes in themselves and their lives.
If they have social anxiety, to overcome it they must go out into the world and talk to people. And by actually going out and doing something with the intention of improving yourself and your life, you learn to love yourself more. In this case, you might learn that people are generally nice, and will be nice to you. You might be proud of yourself for overcoming your fears and doing something that was difficult for you. And you might love yourself more because you have experienced that you have the capacity to change and become more like the person you want to be.
Of course, if you are truly dedicated to leaving the wheel of samsara, then certainly, focus all your attention on learning to love yourself. But my personal experience is that when I improved myself, my life got better, and I became happier - even if that initial spark of wanting to improve came from feelings of inadequacy or self hatred or frustration or rage. And through the process of improving myself, I was forced to confront my inner demons in a far more visceral way that helped me overcome them. And now that I have improved myself and my life, I am in a much better place to work on my internal world and learn to love myself more.
It’s okay to chase the dragon of self improvement, or of achieving worldly desires. The bhudda is equally found on the meditation mat and in the snake oil in the GNC pre-work out aisle.
chunes@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
You’re right. I probably phrased that a bit poorly, especially with respect to “do ___ before ___.” The point I was trying to get across is that this push for self-improvement is often extrinsic and possibly unnecessary.
If chasing money or muscles (or whatever) is something that genuinely excites you, then by all means do that. But if you’re doing it because others tell you that’s what you need to find contentment, then I just want people to know how bullshit that is.
lightnsfw@reddthat.com 2 weeks ago
Like, really, what should our incel friend do with their time?
Can’t speak for every incel friend but the one in our group needs to be working on regulating his emotions and not spending so much time on incel forums. Getting comfortable with himself and the fact that not every woman who is nice to him is going to be interested him romantically. He’s in his 30s and still acts like a fucking teenager when he gets rejected. At least 3 of us at different points in time have had to pull him aside and have a talk to him about how his behavior is making the women in our group uncomfortable and explain that if he doesn’t get that shit under control he’s not going to get invited out anymore. Even when he does take up a hobby or work on himself he talks about it like he’s checking off a box so that he can finally deserve to get laid. Then, when that doesn’t work out for him because he reeks of desperation when he interacts with women, he goes back to his bad habits.
Gullible@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
I agree, in that “self improvement” is a fairly nebulous concept and acceptance of the self is a positive trait, but they should probably still look to improve themselves. Exercise, volunteer, pick up a hobby outside the house, cut off your toxic community and find another. Volunteering and community tend to go together, from my experience.
architectonas@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I like the idea of self-improvement in the sense of becoming even more yourself. I believe there is some kind of path(s) in each of us. It takes effort to recognise it – you can say: accept it – and even more to actually pursue it filtering out all external influences that do not suit. We all have ideas, dreams and wishes, but we have to listen carefully to hear them.
lemmur@szmer.info 2 weeks ago
Isn’t self-acceptance considered self-improvement?
TwoBeeSan@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Very well said.
Love from others comes after a love of self.
gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.de 2 weeks ago
The same is true on a political level which is a crab bucket when they tell you that things can’t improve and that you shouldn’t even have any hopes.
Whats_your_reasoning@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Whenever there’s a post about a protest, or a politician actually works to block a Trump bill, there’s always someone who pops into the comments to go “iT wOn’T cHaNgE aNyThInG.”
It’s pretty clear who’s never taken any sort of political action before in their lives. Those that participate in activism know that change doesn’t happen in one big event, but momentum snowballs over time. Discouraging people who put effort into change only works to empower those who oppress us.
QuentinCallaghan@sopuli.xyz 2 weeks ago
“Misery loves company.”
RaivoKulli@sopuli.xyz 2 weeks ago
Stephen King’s Misery 2
cRazi_man@europe.pub 3 weeks ago
If anyone hasn’t seen Femcel spaces, you could always go and browse reddit.com/r/femaledatingstrategy
CancerMancer@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
It’s about the same as incel shit really. It’s tolerated because men are not a protected class.
DarkSirrush@lemmy.ca 2 weeks ago
Which is why the Lemmy equivalent has banned that type of thinking/posts.
jumping_redditor@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
thinking is overrated anyways
MisterNeon@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
Jon Arbuckle dances to the lyric “I’ll either live or die alone”.
lessthanluigi@lemmy.sdf.org 3 weeks ago
Banger!
rtxn@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
Actually, Jon scores 2 by the time The Survey is conducted.
NSFL. Seriously.
southsamurai@sh.itjust.works 3 weeks ago
I mean, so unreal and non hetero.
Anon didn’t even suggest incels and femcels trade virginity
steeznson@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
What makes someone’s personality attractive (there are limits to what you can do about appearances) is self confidence and giving the impression that you have something interesting going on. Essentially you need to seem exciting to be around. That doesn’t even mean like skydiving but just having hobbies you are passionate about.
Self-improvement might be one way of getting there but it’s mainly a case of being comfortable in your own skin. I think this is why so many incels get confused about going to the gym not immediately making them desirable.
Lastly, you need to be genuinely interested in any potential partner as a person. People can sense when they are talking to someone with ulterior motives. This might be the biggest hurdle for hetro mysogynists who don’t see women as people.
j4k3@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
why label and tribalism. just be you and do you things and if that intersects with someone else or not, who cares, you’re just you as your true self. Leaving that space to find someone is silly nonsense that probably won’t work out well because that person is not the real you. Pursue your curiosities until it takes you to your happy place
sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
Idk, if “doing you” means never leaving home, you’re not getting chances to actually find someone that you intersect with. You do need to make a conscious effort to put yourself out there so you have those chances, and you should put some effort into improving your confidence to maximize your chances. Don’t change who you are to please someone, but do shower and put on a clean shirt.
j4k3@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Not really the point of what I am saying. I am speaking for the other person too without bias or assumptions and I am not pushing anyone to conform to some stereotype. If you’re happy wearing dirty shirts, not showering, and staying at home, that is perfectly valid. You can and should just be yourself. If you feel the need to be someone else or wear any mask of assumption or conformity, you’re potentially hurting someone else and offering a fake version of yourself. If you’re lonely, pursue your curiosity in spaces where other people interact. Don’t just go to where you might find people. You do not exist in that space; that is not you. On a subtle non obvious level, going to a space for not you reasons like this is predatory.
I am actually saying, you’re allowed to be happy or content with whatever state of self awareness and intelligent engagement you push yourself to achieve. The pursuit of raw self motivated curiosity is the only way to expand self awareness from within and grow. When motivated purely from within one’s self, one will eventually achieve one’s true potential while being true to self.
No one deserves to partner with someone that later never showers and never leaves the house after they remove the mask of their true self.
So you see, I’m saying the same thing but with the nuance of the best interests of all parties involved. Don’t tell people to conform to combat loneliness. Make an attempt to inspire their curiosity and self growth if you feel like you’ve spotted some inadequacy, but ultimately let them be themselves so that they are not masking to hurt someone else.
Relationships certainly can and do change people, but let those that want to change someone find their query in the true depths of the coal mine if they choose lest they unwittingly find themselves on an impossible journey to the center of the Earth.
RBWells@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
You know - the only thing you can really control at all is yourself. So it can be true that the world sucks, but making yourself suck is not going to do anything except hurt you, yourself.
So regardless of the outside circumstances, the best action is always to work on yourself. Generally speaking that does make you look differently at your circumstances too, so that you might be able to improve your situation with some action but even if those circumstances don’t change you are still better equipped to deal with them.
iamdefinitelyoverthirteen@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Goddamn right, Bob.
WanderWisley@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
Based anon
Apytele@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
Seems like a good time to bring up that I just created !DIYMentalHealth@lemmy.dbzer0.com.
lessthanluigi@lemmy.sdf.org 3 weeks ago
Damn. I know the community tab here says I’m not suppose to agree with anon, but damn, I have to
neukenindekeuken@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
This was a test. You failed.
And by that, I mean you passed.
oce@jlai.lu 2 weeks ago
This tab seems to be written for the mod to deflect accusation of supporting the Lemmy-unapproved dark sides of 4chan that may come up in green texts.
sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
You… bothered to read the rules… in a 4chan focused community?
lessthanluigi@lemmy.sdf.org 2 weeks ago
Yes
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