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Anon expects more

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Submitted ⁨⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago⁩ by ⁨Early_To_Risa@sh.itjust.works⁩ to ⁨greentext@sh.itjust.works⁩

https://sh.itjust.works/pictrs/image/90206b40-fd34-406f-8c48-cce4905b05a0.jpeg

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  • mormund@feddit.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    So Belgium isn’t a western Nation? Or who does Anon think made Baldur Gate 3?

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    • Deceptichum@quokk.au ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      And Japanese AAAs don’t under deliver?

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    • kartoffelsaft@programming.dev ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      Usually whan people make this argument with BG3 as evidence it comes with the implicit assumption that Larian is a AA developer, not a AAA one. I haven’t done enough research on what constitutes AAA vs AA and where Larian fits in that so I don’t know if that’s reasonable, but that’s the argument.

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      • Blackmist@feddit.uk ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

        I’m not really sure on which planet they think Larian is a AA developer. BG3 was certainly north of $100 million to make, and had like 300 people working on it.

        Ubisoft recently coined AAAA games in order to justify price rises on their latest mediocre drivel, and the only games I’ve seen that deserve the term AAAA are BG3 and Red Dead Redemption 2.

        To me, that’s a product where absolutely no compromise has been made.

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    • jonne@infosec.pub ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      They probably bought into the propaganda that all of Europe is overrun by Muslims.

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      • edinbruh@feddit.it ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

        Europe is what? How does one even come up with that? Who says it?

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      • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

        I thought that was only France? Or have they expanded their intolerance now?

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    • papalonian@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      Aren’t the “Western AAA developers” the ones complaining? Not the ones that made the mentioned games?

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      • mormund@feddit.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

        Then my question becomes what Larian Studios is, if not a AAA game dev.

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  • megopie@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    I think it’s less that they intentionally under deliver, and more that how the actually run leads to bad products. The executives and consultants brought in try and run studios like they’re software companies. Which, yes, technically video games are software, but they’re more than that.

    With a lot of software, a short turn around is important if you want to make sure your product isn’t outpaced by a competitor before it even launches. bugs can be patched out over time so shipping with a few bugs is fine so long as you’re getting to market as soon as possible. Breaking the project up in to lots of small items that can be independently worked on without interfering or relying on other items means you can expand the team easily to keep up with deadline.

    On a video game, consumers care more about the experience of the released product and less about it being the most technically advanced. Huge bugs at release mutes any excitement, even if the issues are patched out later. Multiple teams working on a bunch of items in parallel will struggle to make a cohesive experience and the design guidelines put in place to make this possible will mute creativity. A handful of cohesive long quest lines makes for a better RPG than a 100 little independent quest scattered over the map.

    Better to have smaller teams that work over longer time frames and release a product when it’s ready, 150 million dollars will make a much better product with a 100 person studio over 6 years than a 300 person studio in 2 years.

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    • dragonfucker@lemmy.nz ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      What about games that take 6 years and still suck? Like Halo?

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      • SaharaMaleikuhm@feddit.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

        Microsoft is just a small indie company, cut them some slack. More likely they just have no idea what they are doing and are just fumbling it all.

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      • addie@feddit.uk ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

        Halo: Combat Evolved sucks? That’s a hot take - been a few years, but I did enjoy playing it, massive controllers and all. Or did you have a specific one in mind?

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  • queermunist@lemmy.ml ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    Not just admitting they under-deliver.

    They’re admitting to market collusion and lashing out at the companies that betray class solidarity.

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  • conditional_soup@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    I think it’s down to western studios being so investor driven. The devs estimate it will take five years, so the PM tells the C-suite it will take four years, so the c-suite tells investors it will take three, who then pressure the C-suite to make it two. Then everyone is shocked, shocked, when the end product is buggy, slap-dashed slop.

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    • JDPoZ@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      Former game studio guy who got out and into general software dev and doubled his pay back in like 2012 and haven’t looked back…

      This is correct… that plus a couple other things :

      1. Western game studios have ZERO qualms burning through people because they believe an endless fresh crop of 20-somethings can be brought in to burn out by forcing 96-hr work weeks for garbage pay

      2. They got rid of the bonuses / profit-sharing you used to get when a game was successful and just fire people after the games ship… which means if you ever want to be a home owner, or have time to set aside for a family, you’re kinda screwed.

      So what this means you’ve got a bunch of people who largely have ZERO experience on each project, and are in survival mode and learning as they go, making usually games that are worse than their previous entries as far as tech goes (see Far Cry series where they show the tech used in FC1 vs newer entries), and when it’s done, they are fired and have to struggle to find another job somewhere else… or they bounce… like I did.

      The only outliers are game companies outside the U.S. and a handful of ones in the U.S. (whose games I guarantee you love) and - surprise surprise - when you look at their teams… they’re a bunch of guys in their 50s and up who’ve been making games since the 90s and aren’t being fired after each thing ships or being asked to stay at the office and work over the weekend until Sunday at 3am for the entire 4th quarter of the year.

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  • LucidNightmare@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    Baldur’s Gate 3 gave me one of the most appealing experiences I’ve ever had playing a video game. It literally felt like a breath of fresh air coming from the rest of the industry. I tried to get into Divinity, but hated the combat so much I stopped playing as much, and then dropped it. I still didn’t love the combat in BG3, but damn, the rest of it literally blew me out of the water. The cinematics of interactions with NPCs, the freedom to do what the developers didn’t intend for you to do, but still allowed it anyway, and so much more. An actual amazing game that seemed to push what SHOULD be the norm for games going forward (RPG wise), but that requires actual writers, actual planners, and actual people who care about video games. That’s not something the big “AAA” studios like to have on their teams, because that costs money.

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    • leftytighty@slrpnk.net ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      DoS is an adjustment after BG3, but I’ve come to prefer the combat and character build mechanics. I bounced off it soon after BG3 and got really into it after trying again later. If you thought you might enjoy it, worth another try.

      I hope their next game is DoS 3 (or a Shadowrun game if I dare to dream).

      For more D&D combat and mechanics I also highly recommend Solasta, and Solasta 2 will be coming out this year.

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      • bitjunkie@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

        I think Shadowrun would struggle to find an audience after Cyberpunk. But I’ve heard all the attempts at Shadowrun vidya since the SNES one in the 90s were a bag of wet ass, so I kind of hope it does get its due eventually.

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    • OmegaLemmy@discuss.online ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      The more I read about BG3 the more I wonder if I fucked up somewhere that lead me to not liking the game…

      It’s literally not as enjoyable as drawing a map, thinking about myths or just reading stories

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      • LucidNightmare@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

        I understand, but it could just not be the game for you. I almost exclusively play RPG games, and this is THE game newer RPGs will have to compete with for me to give them anything over a 5/10.

        I should mention that I played it from release to completion before they even released patch 3-4, and still enjoyed the hell out of it. Now they’ve included a few more classes, fixed a ton of bugs (that I never ran into surprisingly!), and have official mod support now. I can’t wait for me and my SO to play together to make our own story, as mine was nothing but good guy vibes the whole time, while SO is a little more chaotic than I am, and I am wanting them to be the main character so I don’t just do the same stuff all over again like I would if I played it singleplayer.

        If you don’t mind me asking, what game has made you feel the way I feel about BG3? I’d be interested in looking into it!

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  • CidVicious@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    Making smaller games isn’t a bad thing. Every game being a BG3 would be completely unsustainable. Sure, that game was a great accomplishment, but also imagine if they’d made the game that size and it was bad. It would’ve probably sunk the studio. I’m all about more A and AA games. Not everything needs to be a 300 person effort.

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    • Revan343@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      You appear to be agreeing with the meme; it didn’t say anything about the size of BG3, only the quality

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      • CidVicious@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

        The back and forth on twitter/bluesky over this topic was pretty wide ranging, and size/cost definitely was a topic discussed. And besides a lot of the “quality” of BG3 was the fact that it supported endless paths through the game, something which requires a lot of development effort.

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  • FenrirIII@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    Starfield was the biggest letdown ever for me

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    • MDCCCLV@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      It was honestly the design choice to make it procedural generation and then leaving the universe as a new game plus. That killed it completely.

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      • Psythik@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

        That and the horribly boring story. Emil Pagliarulo should have been fired over a decade ago.

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  • uis@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    Atomic Heart, Metro, STALKER. It is american studios that underdeliver. And Ubisoft.

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    • Zoomboingding@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
      [deleted]
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      • NOT_RICK@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

        Which dev is US based?

        Elden Ring: Japan BG3: Belgian Atomic Heart: Cyprus (pretty much Russian though) Metro: Austria Stalker: Ukraine

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    • Natanox@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      Or CD Project Red from Poland (The Witcher series, Cyberpunk, GOG.com). Or Larian Studios from Belgium (Divinity Series, Baldurs Gate 3). Or Platinum Games from Japan (Bayonetta Series, NieR:Automata, Vanquish, Astral Chain).

      You’re correct, it’s the unhinged US turbocapitalistic corporatocracy that just produces more and more trash. Won’t change either, best is to just treat names like “Ubisoft”, “EA” or “Microsoft” printed on games like huge red flags and avoid them, no matter how good the manipulative marketing is. Saves money and nerves.

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  • SharkEatingBreakfast@sopuli.xyz ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    The release of BG3 makes absolutely cackle to think about how the Elder Scrolls series can’t get away with recycling their old tricks anymore.

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    • mke@programming.dev ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      BG3 might not be a healthy reference for videogame development for different reasons, but it’s definitely remarkable how nothing has made me less excited for ES6 than Starfield.

      I can’t predict how long it’ll take until it releases, but I’m doubtful it could be enough to fix whatever mess is already making its way through production—if they even planned to fix it, that is.

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      • SharkEatingBreakfast@sopuli.xyz ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

        As far as characters & engagement goes, I think it’s fair to now want more from the Elder Scrolls than their typical surface-level cutouts they’ve given players so far.

        I play games for the characters and environments. Sure, good ol’ Bethesda doesn’t have to copy BG3 as a template, but I’d be lying if I said that I didn’t raise my expectations for them now, after seeing what other games have shown what can be achieved. Y’know?

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    • ICastFist@programming.dev ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      Hell, even Divinity Original Sin 1 would put the storytelling and roleplaying aspects of Elder Scrolls on the floor.

      Then again, Bethesda learned nothing from FO76, which resulted in Starfield being what it is (devoid of meaning, story or anything other than space dungeons). I doubt they learned anything from it, either.

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    • djsoren19@yiffit.net ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      Kinda a weird take, because BG3 is just Larian recycling their old tricks, and Elden Ring is just FromSoftware recycling their old tricks. Seems gamers don’t have too much of an issue with companies making similar games in a niche.

      Think the issue is more that Bethesda has never had a clear vision for Elder Scrolls as a series and changes the formula up for each game, as opposed to iterating. Elder Scrolls has lost more mechanics than its added over the years. I think Elder Scrolls 6 would be a lot more interesting if old tricks like spellmaking and levitation were brought back.

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  • UltraGiGaGigantic@lemmy.ml ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    starts digging the 10,000th dwarf fortress

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  • JayObey711@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    I feel like the death if the AAA industry has been dragging on for a while. Every time the “only indie studios can save gaming” feeling hits me a new God of War or Knack 2 or Doom comes out.

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    • Zementid@feddit.nl ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      Knack 2 was a blast in coop… we spouse and me played it in December on cozy winter nights, maybe it’s garbage but scratched an itch.

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  • JackbyDev@programming.dev ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    Didn’t exactly one small developer say this in a tweet and even then everyone took it out of context?

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    • bitjunkie@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      Straw men don’t have security details

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      • JackbyDev@programming.dev ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

        Huh?

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  • paultimate14@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    These “Western AAA studios”… Are they in the room with us right now?

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  • BetaBlake@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    Shareholders, it all comes down to public companies

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    • Natanox@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      The best culture will always come from cooperatives, when artists are fully invested in what they do and not just salary men building stuff based on soulless profit metrics.

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