Because Donald Trump is above the law – laws simply don’t apply to him.
(Or at least that is how much of the country is acting, INCLUDING the US Supreme Court.)
If I threaten a politician to kill them like Trump did to Liz Cheney could I be arrested? If so how come Trump hasn't been arrested for it?
Submitted 6 months ago by Don_Dickle@lemmy.world to [deleted]
Comments
mcherm@lemmy.world 6 months ago
RobotToaster@mander.xyz 6 months ago
To give you an actual answer
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/True_threat
The true threat doctrine was established in the 1969 Supreme Court case Watts v. United States.[3] In that case, an eighteen-year-old male was convicted in a Washington, D.C. District Court for violating a statute prohibiting persons from knowingly and willfully making threats to harm or kill the President of the United States.[3]
The conviction was based on a statement made by Watts, in which he said, “[i]f they ever make me carry a rifle the first man I want to get in my sights is L.B.J.”[3] Watts appealed, leading to the Supreme Court finding the statute constitutional on its face, but reversing the conviction of Watts.
In reviewing the lower court’s analysis of the case, the Court noted that “a threat must be distinguished from what is constitutionally protected speech.”[3] The Court recognized that “uninhibited, robust, and wide open” political debate can at times be characterized by “vehement, caustic, and sometimes unpleasantly sharp attacks on government and public officials.” In light of the context of Watts’ statement - and the laughter that it received from the crowd - the Court found that it was more “a kind of very crude offensive method of stating a political opposition to the President” than a “true threat.”[3]
glimse@lemmy.world 6 months ago
That’s a banger of a quote and a feeling I can totally get behind. Oh, you’re gonna make me kill people? Then let’s start with you.
Dasus@lemmy.world 6 months ago
I love how the statement receiving laughter from the crowd was a point in showing how it was political commentary.
Johnmannesca@lemmy.world 6 months ago
So basically the shit-talker’s easy way out? I’m ashamed of, but not surprised, the fact that the Supreme Court was the one that came up with the coward’s way out to hate speech.
BumpingFuglies@lemmy.zip 6 months ago
What a simplistic, destructive take.
Nuance exists in this world. In a free society, a distinction needs to be made between real, credible threats and simple hyperbole.
Also, “hate speech” is a real term, and it doesn’t mean ‘saying you hate someone.’
Diplomjodler3@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Because you’re not rich. The repressive part of the US “justice” system is only for poor people.
surph_ninja@lemmy.world 6 months ago
And they don’t want to start a precedent of prosecuting politicians for threatening to or actually killing people. That would be bad for defense contractors.
DarkCloud@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Trump has Musk and Murdoch money behind him. Vance’s life up until this point has veen thoroughly sponsored by Peter Thiel… They all have Epstein connections… A whole lot of people should be in jail.
shalafi@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Simple, because he didn’t make a direct threat, didn’t direct anyone else either. Hell, he didn’t even call for her death. Trump’s using the mob boss language he learned in NYC.
“I think OP should have 9 guns pointed in his face for posting this.”
See how that works? All I said was that you should be threatened. Didn’t threaten action myself nor direct anyone else to action.
Speech like this is clearly stochastic terrorism, but the US really doesn’t have laws around it. I would hope there’s an incitement angle to this, IANAL, but our strong 1A rights make it sticky.
humanspiral@lemmy.ca 6 months ago
I heard the word “LZ should be executed” from “media report”.
Greyfoxsolid@lemmy.world 6 months ago
I hate Trump, but I also hate being dishonest. He didn’t threaten her.
Snapz@lemmy.world 6 months ago
“I hate trump, but…”
“I hate elon, but…”
“Look, in the last got to defend trump, but”
These aren’t the statements of people that hate these monsters. These are the beginnings of statements of apologists working to soften the blow.
He threatened her. No integrity in your statement. Even if you needed to classify threats on a spectrum, this registers in several spots on that spectrum, regardless of your attempt to spin here. This was decidedly a threat, even without context of who trump is, but ESPECIALLY with that context.
Greyfoxsolid@lemmy.world 6 months ago
I’m sorry, but no. He said she would feel differently about war if she were in the shoes of service men and women who have weapons pointed at them.
Do I agree with him? No, but it wasn’t a threat on her life.
TheOneAndOnly@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Like like someone thinks so…
Treczoks@lemmy.world 6 months ago
In the US, white, rich and influential people don’t get arrested just because they committed a crime!
NeonWoofGenesis@l.henlo.fi 6 months ago
bran_buckler@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Thank you for posting this! I immediately thought of this public announcement of sorts when I read the question.
humanspiral@lemmy.ca 6 months ago
Trump could be in military jail for either the documents theft case, and leak of attack plans on Iran, or nuclear secrets. Jan 6th insurection call. He could be in military jail for foreign interference “daily calls” with Netanyahu.
There’s 2 explanations:
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The DNC is a fundraising first organization as opposed to power first. It always selects the most zionist neocon candidates to get its fair share of fundraising, while not that concerned about losing to even more Israel first political opposition.
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Trump seems like the ideal candidate for Biden/DNC to run against. He lost last time, and has only gotten more unhinged. But an Israel crisis has meant massive money for him to help “finish the job” without concern for those radical left ideas about “genocide bad” or even keeping together the middle east alliance that props up Israel.
The supreme court gave wide leeway to use executive power to deal with “enemies within”. DNC/Biden response is “let’s hope for a fair election against a fascist” but not use those powers ourselves.
There is still a 2 month period after election under which to jail and epstein him. That should have been done in 2021.
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Eczpurt@lemmy.world 6 months ago
I know it’s different from a call to arms which is illegal. Maybe it’s assault? Like another user said, money and power makes a difference in what you can get away with.
johannesvanderwhales@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Look guys, the law is not code. It is not if(strcmp(speech, “kill”) then return guilty();. There’s this whole concept of mens rea which means a required element of the crime is whether or not he meant it as a threat to her, which you will note requires human judgement (by a jury!) to evaluate. It is highly unlikely that anyone would take this rhetoric, violent and gross as it may be, as a plausible threat against Liz Cheney by Trump.
JusticeForPorygon@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Some guy in Alaska threatened to assassinate six of the justices on the supreme Court and he was pretty quickly arrested.
Weird how that works.
Signtist@lemm.ee 6 months ago
Would you be arrested? Probably not, but you’re more likely to be than Trump. See, committing a crime isn’t the only factor that influences whether or not you get slapped with the punishment for that crime, even if it’s plainly obvious to everyone you committed it. Another major factor is whether or not someone is going to go through the effort of ensuring you get punished - if nobody does, or if they try, but can’t get to that finish line of getting a judge to declare you to be guilty in court, then you walk away scot-free.
So, the thing that’s keeping you from being arrested is your relative insignificance. You’re just some person, so it’s unlikely that anyone will go through the trouble of ensuring you receive the punishment for the crime you committed, even if it’s a relatively easy thing to do. Now, if you were to go on TV and say it, that would significantly increase your risk, since now more people are seeing you and someone who gives a shit might decide to go after you. That would be damning for you, since it would require very little effort to punish you - you clearly committed the crime, and you have no way to influence the court to make you harder to punish.
For Trump, his protection isn’t insignificance - there are plenty of people who would like to ensure he’s properly punished; instead, his protection comes from making it really difficult for someone who wants to punish him to be successful in that endeavor. He has a lot of money and influence, so he can hire good lawyers that can drag out the expensive legal process - something he can afford, but a lot of people who might try to go after him can’t. His lawyers are also good enough to find loopholes in the law to avoid punishment, so even if you can afford a cheap lawyer for a long time, he’ll likely still walk away unscathed. He’s also shown that he has the ability to influence what judge gets put on trials he’s a part of, which is another factor that influences whether or not he might get punished for the crime.
Ultimately, you’d have to have a rock-solid case presented by a team of very good lawyers working non-stop for months to years in order to bring Trump to justice, and the only people who reasonably have that power are almost exclusively on his side to begin with. Trump has knowingly committed multiple major crimes, and has shown that he has the ability to prevent them from hurting him, so he knows that he has virtually no chance to be punished for minor crimes, and commits them openly all the time.
RedditRefugee69@lemmynsfw.com 6 months ago
Depends on the exact wording, medium you said it through, and jurisdiction you said it in.
foreignlivesmatters@lemmings.world 6 months ago
Trump will not get arrested because the democrats needs him as a strawman.
kSPvhmTOlwvMd7Y7E@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Lol you mean like painting someone as a mentally challenged felon, fraud, a menace to democracy & basic decency, while that someone actually doesn’t deserve it? … Oh wait, he does deserve it
foreignlivesmatters@lemmings.world 6 months ago
Of course he does deserve it, the dude is calling a genocider to prevent peace talk. That’s conspiracy to commit genocide, a capital offense.
Then how comes he’s allowed to run and not in jail? The dems want him around.
eran_morad@lemmy.world 6 months ago
unless harris wins this, the law doesn’t apply to trump.
sho@ani.social 6 months ago
If you have to ask, then you clearly don’t understand how politics works. It’s real simple. Laws are made for the citizens, not for politicians. Politicians get diplomatic immunity becasue they are the ones left in charge. So this means they are either immune to law or it just doesn’t apply to them. That’s government for ya.
whotookkarl@lemmy.world 6 months ago
It’s also a violation of his probation, check with his probate officer when the warrant will be issued
nondescripthandle@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 months ago
What’s your net worth?
iAmTheTot@sh.itjust.works 6 months ago
Money. The answer is always money.
gravitas_deficiency@sh.itjust.works 6 months ago
Rules for thee, but not for me
Sho@lemmy.world 6 months ago
My theory to all of the BS he gets away with is because he knows who was in Epstien’s black book and who visited his island, but snuffing out an ex-president would be a bad look. So they protect him in the hope he doesn’t squeal.
pearsaltchocolatebar@discuss.online 6 months ago
Possibly, but I believe that Putin has a ton of dirt on all of them from the GOP email hack.
Sho@lemmy.world 6 months ago
True, possibly also all of that evidence that went missing from Epstiens house when Chump delayed the U.S. from seizing it all for 4 days.
K1nsey6@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Laws are only for the plebs
Randomgal@lemmy.ca 6 months ago
He’s is rich and in the US.
Sundial@lemm.ee 6 months ago
Because you’re not rich and powerful enough to have lawyers and public influence sway the judge to be more lenient to you.
spankmonkey@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Nominating judges that will throw out your cases on fictional grounds helps too!