Female approached by man

Submitted ⁨⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago⁩ by ⁨feelings67@lemmy.world⁩ to ⁨[deleted]⁩

I was just sitting at the mall taking a break from mall walking. A man walked over to me when I wasn’t even looking up. He said "I haven’t seen you here before. " I said I wasn’t really here to talk to people and got up and walked away. He said he would leave, he may even have said sorry. I said I was ready to leave anyway. In retrospect I think he may have just been slightly mentally challenged so I wish I had been a little softer, he did not turn out to be aggressive. Looking for suggestions on something still clear and firm but more polite? This scared me for some reason, I think how fast he walked up and sat down near me.

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celeste@kbin.earth ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
I think it's good you listened to your instincts and were firm. If he has a disability that makes social things complicated, being obvious was a favor to him. If he did have bad intentions, your immediate willingness to leave showed you weren't an easy mark.

There are probably good scripts for this, but I don't know them. I just think you should know it doesn't sound like you handled it badly.

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- feelings67@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  I appreciate it!
  
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Hello_there@fedia.io ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
You know, somehow we have got to get back to the place where strangers can talk to each other in public places. I understand your position and why you needed to do that. I just regret the fact that conversations in public seem to be a lost art.

My dad is one of those people who makes friends everywhere he goes - talking to people in elevators, etc. and people react well to it. Everybody can't be that outgoing and shouldn't be. But I think the % of people who can do that now is going to be much less than it was in the past, which is a shame.

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- cecilkorik@lemmy.ca ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  It is a shame, but it’s not simply individual personal attitudes that’s causing this. People are afraid of strangers. The problem is, there are too many cases where that’s actually justified now.
  
  The bad people have in fact ruined it for everybody. They have made it legitimately dangerous to have this sort of openness and trust in most slices of society, at least for people who look and behave a certain way, or were born certain ways. The problem is, under the influence of traditional media and social media and government and all the other dysfunctional and corrupt systems in our society, we’ve started tolerating the actually bad and dangerous people in society, instead of punishing them. Often we’re actually celebrating them, and in some cases even electing them President. It makes it almost impossible to sustain a functioning society when bad people are allowed to do bad things with impunity or worse, reward for their behavior. This is what’s causing the breakdown of society. Trust is hard to build and easily broken, and now it’s been broken and it seems like fewer and fewer people are interested in trying to rebuild it.
  
  Why the fuck would women trust anyone in this society when allegedly half of the people in the world’s most economically powerful and culturally influential country voted for a party who is now occasionally saying women shouldn’t have the right to make decisions about their own bodies or even have the right to vote. These horrifyingly regressive attitudes are not just extremist throwaway comments because they are being paired with actions in the US and around the world, and they have serious consequences.
  
  And yes, I am allowed to bring politics into this, because society is literally made out of politics. That’s what politics is, it’s the primary ingredient for making civilization function and it defines how it functions. Our aversion to discussing contentious “politics” is what has allowed society to decay to the point it has. This is not about being “woke” this is about being intelligent enough to want to live in a civilized society. Civilization requires not just moral boundaries but also the willingness to treat those who push at or exceed those moral boundaries as an existential threat, because they are. If you want your society to be good, you cannot tolerate evil. The boundaries and definitions are not always clear, but we must grapple with them as they stand, not avoid them. Grappling with these issues is the day-to-day work required to make civilization function. It is not a failing that we will always have these issues and always struggle with these issues, but it is a failing if we stop trying to struggle with them, because then we’re no longer keeping society functioning. Politics is life. Life is politics.
  
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  - AskewLord@piefed.social ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    The irony here is that… you are one of those bad people.
    
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  - oeuf@slrpnk.net ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    This ☝️
    
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  - Feathercrown@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    Very well said
    
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- NathanRanch@lemmy.zip ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  Most people are told to be afraid because of TB/Twitter and internalize it. That makes them, partly, losers. The people that go out and make human connections usually know this, and do it to remind people that real life isn’t on the internet or in their heads. I do it too sometimes for fun, other times I’m like the rest of them.
  
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  - AskewLord@piefed.social ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    or real life expereince with people like the OP have taught us it’s not worth it.
    
    Frankly, I don’t want to interact with people who assume I’m mentally ill for being friendly to them. And where I live at least, that’s the way a lot of folks react to friendly conversation if you are like standing in line with them. they act like you’re trying to assault them.
    
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  - LifeInMultipleChoice@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    Okay so I assume TB isn’t tuberculosis here, but what did it stand for?
    
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- njordomir@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  I say hi to almost everyone I pass. This gets me some weird looks when I’m away from home where people are not as friendly. I absolutely understand why women don’t do the same. At least 50% of guys are dangerously delusional in how they view and approach interacting with women. If I was a chick, I would be Lesbian as fuck on safety grounds alone.
  
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  - churlie@lemmy.today ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    Honestly the fact heterosexual women still exist is proof enough to me that sexuality isn’t a choice. What woman would willingly choose to coin flip whether or not they’ll be a crime statistic every time they go for a date?
    
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  - Hello_there@fedia.io ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    Hey you were nice to me in your post. This means you want to fuck, right?
    
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- Pat_Riot@lemmy.today ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  I talk to folks around me all the time. Standing in line for checkout at a store or something? I’ma talk to you.
  
  I don’t walk up on folks out of nowhere, but if we are in near proximity for more than a minute, I’ma talk to you.
  
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  - feelings67@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    Being in line together is different. I’m curious though, if someone is giving you one word answers and seems like you don’t wish to continue the conversation do you back off ?
    
    I talk to people in public a lot but if they seem closed off I’ll end it
    
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- Lemming6969@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  Yes this person is just an asocial mean world syndrome asshole.
  
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Truth_Hurts@lemmy.today ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
People have to shoot their shot somehow.

It’s fine to not be interested, neither one of you did anything wrong.

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RickyRigatoni@piefed.zip ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Approaching a woman to strike up a conversation is a bit of a fine art to do it in a way that doesn’t skeeve them the fuck out and plopping your ass down right next to them is definitely in the list of don’ts. Hell I’m a guy and I’d be skeeved out a bit if this happened to me.

You did nothing wrong and I’m giving him the benefit of the doubt of just being socially unaware since he didn’t press it.

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- exasperation@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  I learned in my 20’s that when I strike up conversations with strangers, it’s a lot better to ensure everyone (including yourself) has an easy physical exit. People are more responsive to someone else making a comment as they’re passing by, rather than cornering them in a confined space, or requiring someone to physically change their direction of movement or step aside to let the other leave. It should feel graceful, where someone who doesn’t want to talk can exit the conversation at very little perceived cost to anyone. It doesn’t have to feel like rejection, and that often starts with the physical arrangement of the people involved, in the setting where it happens.
  
  I’ve been with my wife for over 10 years, so it’s been a while since I’ve approached a woman with the specific intention of seeing if there was potential for a romantic/sexual connection, but I still talk to strangers and build new friendships. Not everyone is open to talking to strangers, but plenty of people enjoy a little bit of low cost social connection, even if it’s intended to be ephemeral. Or if you really hit it off and become friends. But every approach should be assumed to be a fleeting moment, rather than a “I’m going to talk to this person until they tell me to stop” kind of commitment.
  
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BooBees@fedinsfw.app ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
You’re fine, he may have been mentally challenged, he may be immersed in a mall walking social group that has formed there and thought it was a risk worth taking based on previously successful or milder experiences, but you are well within your rights socially and everything else to be firm and curt and avoidant. I applaud your continued assessment and concern, it shows you actually care about people’s feelings, so imo you’re fine and will do great with whatever options you go with in the future. If you want my suggestion for a slightly easier refusal, I’d maybe just say “I really do appreciate your being social and being welcoming, I’m just not up for socializing today, sorry” and that should do it. But I think you did fine.

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- feelings67@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  That’s good phrasing, thank you!
  
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Catoblepas@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
‘I’m not really here to talk’ and leaving isn’t rude at all, don’t sweat it. If you had screamed at him that he was a creepy POS or something then you’d have a good reason to feel bad if he had some kind of intellectual/developmental disability, but you didn’t, and even if he does there’s a point where you have to learn you’re not a cute kid who can just walk up to people at random and start talking to them anymore (or at least not have everyone be as receptive to it).

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cecilkorik@lemmy.ca ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
It is totally reasonable to react the way you did. You don’t owe it to other people to be comfortable around them. They should be thinking about what they can do to make you comfortable, ideally before they do it, and this guy clearly wasn’t. If it is because of some disability or something that’s totally plausible too, but that’s his problem and his cross to bear, not yours. You weren’t rude or cruel, but you were uncomfortable, and you’re allowed to be. If he is capable of learning from that, maybe he will, and I think it would be a good lesson for him to learn.

You don’t have to feel bad about it, it makes sense that you regret how the interaction turned out after the fact, but that regret comes from the additional information and processing time you had afterwards to think about it. If you want to reconsider that guy as a possibly decent fellow who deserves another chance in retrospect that’s alright, and maybe if you see him again you can extend a little more tolerance for his behavior if you think it’s safe. But it doesn’t mean you were wrong in the first place. In general, you should trust your instincts and listen to them, they’re just trying to keep you safe, and better safe than sorry. You should not have to be scared of a man sitting down next to you, but the way some men act in the world we live in, you have every right to. It’s sad, but it’s realistic, and you are not responsible for solving this problem on society’s behalf. When we’ve built a society where you can have a man sit next to you and feel safe about it, then that’ll be great. But we’re not there yet.

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- AskewLord@piefed.social ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  This is insane.
  
  Other people are not psychic. They cannot read people’s minds.
  
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  - cecilkorik@lemmy.ca ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    I’d say that’s a little bit overly dramatic take on what I was trying to say. I understand where you’re coming from, but I wasn’t calling for anyone to read any minds. But a little bit of sensitivity to the facts and statistics is not an unreasonable ask:
    
    Approximately 4.7 million women in Canada — 30% of all women aged 15 and older — have been sexually assaulted outside of an intimate relationship at least once since age 15. [Source: Statistics Canada, 2019]
    
    That’s almost 1/3 of women, that’s a serious statistic, and it means that, as a man, you have a responsibility to approach unfamiliar women with at least a reasonable measure of respect for their safety and comfort. And it doesn’t even account for any potential bias towards exactly the sort of “attractive” women who tend to get approached by men much more frequently than others because they are in fact attractive: they literally attract these sort of situations and you can’t assume it’s because they choose to.
    
    For someone throwing around accusations of being entitled and self-absorbed, you sound very much like you’re in fact the one saying ‘everyone else should cater to me and they are shitty if they don’t do that’.
    
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- glimse@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  
  They should be thinking about what they can do to make you comfortable, ideally before they do it, and this guy clearly wasn’t.
  
  I agree that OP’s reaction was reasonable but what about the guy’s actions make it so clear to you that he wasn’t thinking about OP’s comfortability? They tried to strike up a friendly conversation and backed off immediately when it wasn’t well-received.
  
  It’s fine to not want to talk but people really shouldn’t have to avoid basic human interaction just because 1% of people might not be interested at that time.
  
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  - cecilkorik@lemmy.ca ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    
    This scared me for some reason, I think how fast he walked up and sat down near me.
    
    Editing to add a key detail, he sat down close to me
    
    I don’t directly know OP’s age or the man’s age in this case, but I’m giving OP the benefit of the doubt, and from context I’m inferring that the man was probably older than her given that she refers to him as a “man” and it just sounds like she’s relatively younger (especially if this is sort of one of her first experiences with this sort of thing).
    
    The “sat down close to me” also makes it sound like there was sufficient open seating, and the man specifically chose to sit directly next to and close to this girl. I understand that public spaces often have inadequate seating options and seats that are packed too close together for comfort, and that’s a separate problem, but there’s nothing suggesting that’s what actually happened here, and as I said, I am giving OP the benefit of the doubt.
    
    With those contextual details in place, in my world and perspective, I would suggest that the older man approaching the younger girl to talk should probably approach with some caution, not “fast”, and perhaps even ask permission before sitting and trying to strike up a conversation. I don’t think that’s unreasonable or too much to ask. I’m not saying anyone can’t strike up a conversation with anyone they choose to, of any age, but for the people that choose to do so with strangers, they would benefit from having some social awareness if the situation is anything like what I am picturing (unfortunately realistically) in my head.
    
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- feelings67@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  Thank you for your thoughtful reply! I’ve worked in some dangerous settings and had to be a bit firmer and these suggestions have been helpful while still being clear!
  
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Miller@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
I think people who are socially inept are often advised to strike up innocuous little throwaway conversations with strangers in public places to improve their ability to interact. Unfortunately this is also exactly the MO of killers in CSI programmes.

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- AskewLord@piefed.social ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  It’s the MO of every human being when they are interacting with a stranger for the first time…
  
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  - feelings67@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    In retrospect I think it was the sitting down near me thing, like we were old friends, that made me react more strongly than I would have
    
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  - Miller@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    A perception of forced rather than incidental interaction is common from those practising chitchat and those set on murder was my point.
    
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- Drusas@fedia.io ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  It's something I did when I learned I had autism. Helped a lot. Highly recommend. I'm female, though, and very not-scary.
  
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  - Miller@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    I have done it a little myself because I have a natural tendency otherwise to close small talk down. I think because while I like people theoretically in practise that sentiment can wander.
    
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whoisearth@lemmy.ca ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
We are so cooked as a society.

Why are women afraid of strangers (men) as a default?

Men are automatically assumed to be predators

I feel for boys. It’s going to get worse, so much worse.
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- exasperation@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  If someone I don’t know rings my doorbell trying to make a sale on something, I assume it’s a scam. It’s not because everyone who rings a doorbell is a scammer, but because there are enough of them that I’d rather shut off that entire avenue of approach.
  
  That doesn’t mean I don’t buy anything. I just don’t buy things in that way.
  
  It also doesn’t mean that I don’t open the door for strangers. Plenty of people are delivering packages or things someone in my house has specifically ordered. Or people need to do work on or around my property (utility pole, buried lines/pipes, neighbors’ trees/fences, etc.).
  
  Understanding the generational shifts in social expectations is important. Bemoaning the loss of a particular type of interaction just because it’s the type you happened to experience before doesn’t actually say anything about the state of society.
  
  Cold approaches by men to women sitting by themselves have basically gone away. There are a lot of reasons for this, including that we as a society have stopped being bored, to where the prospect of small talk with a stranger has changed from “better than nothing” to “worse than nothing” in just 20 years. But it has happened, and people need to adjust.
  
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hyperion626@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
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- feelings67@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  I would never approach someone who was not looking up at me unless I really had to, like they had dropped something. I can’t think of a time a woman has approached me in this way.
  
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  - hyperion626@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
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Tetragrade@leminal.space ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Bro had zero game.

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- pineapplelover@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  Bro is just like me fr
  
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Tollana1234567@lemmy.today ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
you dint do anything wrong. i witnessed several times on public transit, and stores, that they would approach women and get in thier face, and try to “flirt” witht them.

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AmidFuror@fedia.io ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Thank God I'm not single.

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ITGuyLevi@programming.dev ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
You do you, my nephew would have taken off running while waving his hands in the air. No shame in either of those responses… Personally I just remain quiet and wait for the person to assume I’m deaf, but we all deal with unwanted conversations differently.

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one_old_coder@piefed.social ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

Looking for suggestions

With a username (feelings67@lemmy.world) that matches \w+\d+ and has no comments since its creation (2 weeks for you), I would tell you to lurk more because we are flooded by spam and your account is suspicious.

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cerebralhawks@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
I think you did fine. As a guy with nieces, my standard for how I’d approach a woman socially is how I’d like another man to approach one of my nieces socially. In a public place where she has several outs if she gets a bad vibe from the situation. But also confident and direct. But just because he shot his shot respectfully doesn’t mean you owe him conversation. Being at a mall to shop or to walk or to kill time is perfectly fine. A lot of younger people do use it as a meeting place because it is big and public and you can explore similar interests while shopping, or even window shopping. When I was younger, I avoided the mall because “mall people” weren’t my kind of people, but now I can see the advantage.

I’d ask you how you’d prefer to be approached, but it’s beside the point since you weren’t looking to be approached in the first place, and that’s fine too.

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dumples@piefed.social ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Nope. You did nothing wrong.

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NutinButNet@hilariouschaos.com ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
I worked with adults (and children) with developmental disabilities and this was a common thing we dealt with. We would take groups of guys out into the community to work and get some socialization. Since I’m a man, I usually worked with guys while women worked with women.

A lot of these people typically don’t get out into the community often so we were there to help them understand what was appropriate and what wasn’t. It was somewhat common for some guys in our groups, and we usually knew who was more prone to it than others, who would do this so we’d have a closer eye on where they were. We also had some who had sexual assault records and we made sure to be very, very close to them in proximity and not letting them out of our sight while ensuring that they had the same opportunities to have a normal life in public as possible.

We worked with both high functioning and low functioning populations, that is to say those who you can tell have some type of disability are lower functioning, as we referred to them back in the day and there may be some more politically correct term used now, with higher functioning population being less recognizable and more like anyone else you’d see in public, usually people with autism.

I say all that to say that if this man had a developmental disability, just from what you said here about how you handled it sounds fine. You didn’t sound rude or violent or anything. Just sounds like you were firm and polite and aware of your own safety which is great.

Most women who were approached by our population handled it very well. I can’t think of a time when someone didn’t and acted inappropriately in return. I think most women could tell seeing our groups and then noticing us as the staff coming along to redirect the guy and prompt him away from what he was doing that was inappropriate.

I remember one guy we had in particular who had a deep fascination for black women (he was Asian but at the same time would talk about how much he hated “Mexicans” and was part of the KKK) and would almost cross the line multiple times with women any chance he got. Not like violently attacking anyone but just overly verbally creepy. But even with him and how aggressive and creepy he’d be, women were very kind and polite but firm and did almost like you, just tried to make their escape. We’d make sure to be near him as much as possible but sometimes he’d get away from our sight and go do things like this. I remember one time he was very much into one woman but she was interested in my coworker who got her number and that set him off into a rage when he saw them talking and her handing him something.

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SCmSTR@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
You did fine. That was a learning experience for everybody.

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Krudler@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
He’s not mentally challenged, you are socially challenged. It’s perfectly normal in the real world for two people who don’t yet know each other to have a little talk or banter without being afraid.

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- feelings67@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  Weird to sit down close to someone you don’t know
  
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  - Krudler@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    No it is not. You thinking that is a confession of your lack of social skills.
    
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Drusas@fedia.io ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
I have to disagree with some other responses--the combination of the statement and immediately walking away sounds rude.

Just say you're not really there to talk to people, maybe add a "sorry", and look away from the guy. Or you could have added "sorry" to the beginning of your statement. Really any little thing to show that it's nothing personal.

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- celeste@kbin.earth ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  If she wants to be more polite in the future in similar situations, I think your script is useful and I appreciate it. But I think since his behavior made her afraid, getting away quickly without concern for etiquette was the better move and she doesn't need to feel bad about it. It indicated immediately, if her instincts were correct, that she wouldn't be an easy target. If he was just trying to make a connection and fumbling, he discovered quickly she won't give him one, so he could go sit next to someone else.
  
  (It's useful to keep in mind that he already was slightly rude by sitting down without a cursory "is this seat free" that would be a very basic manners for this situation. He didn't, and it's not evil or anything that he didn't. But when she got up and left abruptly she was at the same level of rudeness. I don't think either party needs to feel bad about it, tbh. Social fumbles happen constantly.)
  
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Zwuzelmaus@feddit.org ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Well, you got up. Point made. No reason to fear anymore.

I would not exactly answer to what he said, but say a different thing, maybe like “You want to sit here?” (polite on the surface, stating the obvious, but implicitly putting the focus on on his action, not yours)

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