For a gender that less than 0.5% of the population identifies as (Wiki numbers, 355 people out of 100,000), we sure do argue about this a lot, don’t we?
JK Rowling prefers two years in jail over using correct pronouns
Submitted 1 year ago by shish_mish@lemmy.world to unitedkingdom@feddit.uk
https://www.thepinknews.com/2023/10/19/jk-rowling-correct-pronouns-trans-jail/
Comments
allywilson@sopuli.xyz 1 year ago
WhaleScenery@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Never underestimate the will of bigots to obsess over other people’s genitalia.
Track_Shovel@slrpnk.net 1 year ago
I hope that comes through ❤️
Clear as a bell. Anyone shitting on you is as tone-deaf as JK.
qdJzXuisAndVQb2@lemm.ee 1 year ago
Digs at people’s physical appearance are unwarranted here.
n3m37h@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 year ago
Gender ≠ Sex which is why I refer to people as their sex and not a gender be cause there are over 100 fucking genders now and I am too stupid to learn anything other than Male and female
K3zi4@lemmy.world 1 year ago
It’s just one of the culture war angles propagated by the rich to keep everyone angry with each other while they reap up as much of the world’s wealth as possible before any of the forthcoming disasters- whether that is climate crisis migration, the next financial crisis, AI unemployment crisis, further war, food and water shortages worldwide, etc…
The writing is on the wall, a majority of people can see it too if you ask them, but unfortunately people can’t help but get sucked in anyway. Probably because it’s a distraction from facing the uncertain future we all have.
OR, this is just a tinfoil hat getting the better of me. It feels like a logical conclusion, so maybe that’s the fallacy I’ve fallen for.
JasSmith@sh.itjust.works 1 year ago
No, you’re right. Between 2009 and 2011, both the left and the right had their popular class movements with Occupy Wall Street and the Tea Party. The risk of both sides coming together to attack the rich was too dangerous. Shortly after that we had Obama and other business and political leaders talking about “systemic racial discrimination.” Boy has that divided us. An incredibly effective tool to convince us idiots that race has ANYTHING to do with our differences. Poor people have far more in common with each other than they do with the rich. The trans issue has been injected to stoke the fires more, and everyone has been quick to jump on board.
You know what? If we’re too stupid to see through this obvious charade, maybe this is what we deserve.
Honytawk@lemmy.zip 1 year ago
Even if they were only 1 in a billion. They still deserve to exist and live their lives how they like if it doesn’t negatively affect others.
Someology@lemmy.world 1 year ago
They do, and they should get on with that, and start ignoring people who don’t agree with them, their lifestyle, or use of language. You cannot enforce your own ideas about your identity on anyone else, because they are also entitled to have their own ideas. All a person can do is just live. Celebrity opinions are not law, and should not be paid such attention as if they matter.
Blackmist@feddit.uk 1 year ago
Better that than throwing off the shackles of the oppressor and rising up against the oligarch class.
Those brown lads area after your crumbs! That man wants to be called “they”! Ooh look, Israel/Gaza, pick a side! Look at this jobless woman with her fancy flat screen television! Does eating Wotsits cure cancer? Distract yourselves with yourselves.
Globulart@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Can I interest you in everything, all of the time?
hperrin@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Fuck JK Rowling. What a bigot.
givesomefucks@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Always has been…
It’s just the kids reading her books 20 years ago didn’t recognize all the problematic shit she wrote till they grew up.
Redhotkurt@kbin.social 1 year ago
It’s just the kids reading her books 20 years ago didn’t recognize all the problematic shit she wrote till they grew up.
Adult here who was an adult when the books came out and recognized all the awful racist and sexist imagery. I have nothing new to add to the conversation, I'm just gonna vent. There were quite a few of us here and there who spoke up when the books were published, but we were significantly outnumbered and immediately drowned out by the "shut up and stop complaining" crowd. Yes, all this talk of "problematic" issues in the Potter books are old observations we've been rehashing for two decades...the goblins who run the banks are a horrifyingly obvious Jewish caricature, Chinese character Cho Chang's first name is actually a Korean last name, the one black guy in the whole fuckin series is named "Shacklebolt" (seriously wtf), the one Irish character goes by "Seamus Finnegan," the main female character Hermione is constantly referred to as "bossy"...just to name a few. JFC, what a shitshow.
Ok, one more example that got a lot of attention years back but sort of faded away from public consciousness: in the first movie there's a bigass six-pointed star on the fuckin floor of Gringotts, of all places. You know, Gringotts. The bank......where the undeniably Jew-like goblins work. No fuckin shit, it's right there, plain as day. That one still boggles my mind. I mean, what the fuck, man. https://i.postimg.cc/Jzx2hr31/happry-potter-1-star-of-david-gringotts.png
Nougat@kbin.social 1 year ago
It’s just the kids reading
herits books 20 years ago didn’t recognize all the problematic shitsheit wrote till they grew up.Surely it can't have a problem with that wording, which doesn't refer to gender at all.
dangblingus@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 year ago
To be honest, there’s not that much problematic shit in her books. Some VERY light commentary on slavery and its place in a civilized society, maybe some questionable themes of segregation, but largely the books are about good triumphing over evil and learning to work as a team including with people that don’t look like you. They’re just not overly well written books. She herself is the problematic person.
Son_of_dad@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Sucks that’s she’s heavily involved in the new reboot, which means the stereotypes and troublesome characters are going to be even worse this time around
MargotRobbie@lemm.ee 1 year ago
Using the correct pronouns is an issue of respecting others, and seeing Rowling doubling down on her smug and bigoted views in public is a revelation, because during a re-read, you start seeing these views reflecting everywhere in her writing. It’s a deeply prejudiced and irrational world, and it stayed that way all the way to the ending with nothing in that world really changed.
I think being an adult is realizing that I don’t love Harry Potter as much as I used to, because (I can’t believe I’m saying this) I’ve finally outgrown it. It’s time to move on.
Being a grown-up is painful.
nickwitha_k@lemmy.sdf.org 1 year ago
A big part of that is context, I think. When we were children, we didn’t have the knowledge or developed brains to recognize these things. And the lossy nature of our memory leads us to skew towards remembering things in more idealized manners, probably because it is easier to recall things as “concentrates” of reality. The parts that we, as adults, recognize as problematic don’t tend to be remembered as significant because, when making the initial memories as children, we lacked the context to flag them as such.
I think being an adult is realizing that I don’t love Harry Potter as much as I used to, because (I can’t believe I’m saying this) I’ve finally outgrown it. It’s time to move on.
On other hand, this realization frees you in a way and may potentially inspire you seek out or create another piece of art to love (and potentially share with others). While I disagree with a significant section of the population and believe that art is inseparably and indelibly linked to the artist, it is important still to be kind to our past selves and not judge them for what they didn’t know. That still doesn’t entirely soften the blow of “breaking up” with a piece of art that one has loved but, it can help with accepting it.
Being a grown-up is painful.
It’s also joyful, terrible, wonderful, enraging, sorrowful, and countless other feelings and possibilities. I think it’s beautiful, even if not always comfortable. And the uncomfortable bits provide contrast to the positive, letting them seem to shine a bit more brilliantly. Though, that could also be the near-pathological optimism that I adopted to cope with depression in my younger years.
MargotRobbie@lemm.ee 1 year ago
inspire you seek out or create another piece of art to love (and potentially share with others)
I think we did a pretty good job on that recently. :)
Cethin@lemmy.zip 1 year ago
The world is fine (if flawed and sometimes generic). The real issue is there isn’t a single good character in them. Hermione is alright, with her desire to free the elves and generally no accepting of the status quo. Even she seems to stop caring about this after they’re free and capable of doing something about it. There’s not a single progressive person in those worlds. There are only not totally evil (but accepting of banal evils) people. Being against Hitler doesn’t make you a good person, it only makes you not a literal Nazi.
Karyoplasma@discuss.tchncs.de 1 year ago
Neville is the only somewhat progressive character. It’s just a transformation from loser to hero, but at least he never tossed his core values.
All adults in the HP universe are terrible people, the only adult with a lick of integrity is McGonagall.
dangblingus@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 year ago
The first few HP movies around the holidays don’t hurt nobody!
MargotRobbie@lemm.ee 1 year ago
Unless a certain someone you know never stops reminding you that he was in thoses movies…
Rouxibeau@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Well, as others in this thread have said, misgender him back. Give him a taste of his own medicine.
doggle@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 year ago
Has anyone in any country ever been incarcerated for misgendering a trans person? Is there even a significant number of people who seriously believe that would be an appropriate response?
Nope.
Just come out and tell us about your victimhood complex, Joanne.
WolfhoundRO@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Exactly! It’s like going to jail for having someone presenting themselves as Joanne and you always call them Joanna. How will it ever be so much of a concern to throw someone in jail and destroy their future over it, Joanna? HOW??
UsernameIsTooLon@lemmy.world 1 year ago
It’s about the influential power. She’s presenting a potentially dangerous rhetoric. She really does have the power to create a new wave of hate if she really wanted to.
fadingembers@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 year ago
In fact it’s the other way around. Plenty of people have been incarcerated and worse for simply being trans
tony@lemmy.hoyle.me.uk 1 year ago
Does she realize what a complete arsehole that makes her look? She’d rather go to jail than treat people like human beings?
Chais@sh.itjust.works 1 year ago
He doesn’t.
vanquesse@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 year ago
assuming you didn’t make a typo, this ain’t cute. The signal you’re sending is that respecting pronouns is a privilege you reserve for people you agree with.
casmael@lemm.ee 1 year ago
Personally I think pronouns should be abolished altogether - think of the cumulative time you could save by trimming the language like that. Trim the fat. After all, why use many word when few word do trick?
iegod@lemm.ee 1 year ago
It’s hyperbole and she is referring to being forced to think a particular thing. She’s not wrong on the premise. But no one wants to analyze this because thinking and discord are hard.
Honytawk@lemmy.zip 1 year ago
She can still think whatever she wants, she just isn’t allowed to call people names they don’t want.
It is like me calling you “asshole” the whole time, and then proudly announcing that I would rather go to jail than stop calling you asshole.
charonn0@startrek.website 1 year ago
Wait… is that really on the table? If so, then I grudgingly have to take her side insofar as objecting to prior restraint or compelled speech. Being an asshole is a fundamental human right.
darq@kbin.social 1 year ago
No. It isn't on the table. This is another in the long line of scenarios that only exist in TERFs imaginations.
finthechat@kbin.social 1 year ago
It was not on the table.
Some rando posted on her Shitter account "vote for Labour, get two years" and Rowling responded with the quote in the headline.
If you read the article, they clarify that the Labour party wants to crack down on LGBTQ hate crimes, and nowhere is it said that they would make it illegal to use improper pronouns for others.
Doug@midwest.social 1 year ago
As fundamental as not having to put up with assholes.
You wanna do it? Go do it over there where no one else has to put up with your shit
charonn0@startrek.website 1 year ago
There is no right to not have to put up with assholes.
You wanna do it? Go do it over there where no one else has to put up with your shit
Exercising your rights, I see.
noodle@feddit.uk 1 year ago
[x] Doubt
RGB3x3@lemmy.world 1 year ago
He’d have to go out of his way to do this.
Start nisgendering him and see how frustrated he gets.
Cethin@lemmy.zip 1 year ago
You can’t not use pronouns. It’s about using the correct ones. Why do some people think pronouns are new? You is a pronoun, for example. It has nothing to do with gender.
noodle@feddit.uk 1 year ago
Not sure why you assume this? I never made the claim
blue_zephyr@lemmy.world 1 year ago
The prosecution complex is real. No one’s suing you for using the wrong pronouns you bigot.
In fact, I’m almost entirely sure that no one’s ever asked Rowling to use specific pronouns because no queer person could stand being around her for longer than a minute.
Seasoned_Greetings@lemm.ee 1 year ago
*Persecution
Prosecution is a noun referring to the party bringing charges in a criminal case.
aaaa@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Resulting in sentencing, for example, to two years in jail…
Maybe prosecution was right this time!
MossyFeathers@pawb.social 1 year ago
Meanwhile she sues everyone within legal reach who calls her a transphobe.
spiderkle@lemmy.ca 1 year ago
TLDR; all Britons can say what they want and express themselves freely, unless it breaks any laws or harms another person.
Isn’t this a classic “freedom of speech” vs. “anti-discrimination-laws” case? Unless the laws in the UK change anytime soon, J.K. very well has the right to talk how she pleases in the confines of the law. She also can’t be forced to change her vocabulary and shouldn’t be afraid to be bullied if she doesn’t. Whatever you may think about her, this always has to goes both ways:
Under Article 10 of the Human Rights Act 1998, “everyone has the right to freedom of expression” in the UK. The law goes on to say that this freedom “may be subject to formalities, conditions, restrictions or penalties as are prescribed by law and are necessary in a democratic society".
In 2010 the UK also passed a law protecting it’s citizens from “discrimination, harassment and victimization.”
If it could be proven that J.K. harmed somebody by her speech, she could be liable for damages. At that point she could also sue back, having the most likely bigger budget than most people.
GreatAlbatross@feddit.uk 1 year ago
As some say “freedom to swing your arms around ends where someone else’s face begins”
Although that’s maybe not such a good phrase after all, as swinging your arms around to intimidate is also not acceptable.
n3m37h@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 year ago
I get bullied all the time online for not wanting to use all these stupid pronouns. Why can they do it but its not OK for me?
Seriously living in the worst timeline.
I don’t care what you do with whom, that is your business, so do me a favour, and keep your shit to yourself
Ashe@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 year ago
You get called out for shitty behavior that can negatively impact people, and are upset that carries consequences. That’s not bullying fwiw
mindbleach@sh.itjust.works 1 year ago
keep your shit to yourself
Like… my name?
Or the bare-minimum stand-in for my name?
charlytune@mander.xyz 1 year ago
You think pronouns are stupid? How do you feel about verbs, and adjectives?
vidarh@lemmy.stad.social 1 year ago
Yes, she is free to be a giant asshole with a persecution complex. And we are free to call her one.
JackLSauce@lemmy.world 1 year ago
He really does know how to keep yall pushing their SEO score higher
Jho@feddit.uk 1 year ago
[deleted]huginn@feddit.it 1 year ago
Cute that you think she’s go to anything resembling a normal prison and not a white collar cell where the worst she deals with it eating freeze dried food sometimes
MushuChupacabra@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Some people are just ugly on the inside, deep down where it counts.
ChocolateTeapot@lemmy.world 1 year ago
To be fair, she’s ugly on the outside too…
rainynight65@feddit.de 1 year ago
That makes her the second gigantic prominent shithead in as many days expressing that they’re willing to go to prison for their beliefs. And also the second whom I wouldn’t believe for even a millisecond that they’re telling the truth.
FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 1 year ago
What a shitbrick. I am glad I never got into her books in the first place. I saw the first movie and had no interest in seeing the others. I read half the first book to my daughter and she got bored with it, so we stopped. My wife got really into her and is disappointed neither of us are, but fuck her. I don’t want to spend a dime on her.
dangblingus@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 year ago
Did she get bored of it? Or were you so disinterested in the book you read it like an asshole to her and that’s why she lost interest?
A good public speaker can make a math textbook seem like Dickens.
FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 1 year ago
She was bored of it. I used to do VO for a living. I know how to read a book to a child.
IHaveTwoCows@lemm.ee 1 year ago
I’m atheist and liked the Narnia books
RGB3x3@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Why is it weird to be atheist and love the Narnia books?
Is there a lot of religious stuff in them? I’ve never read them, I just thought it was alternate fantasy world stories.
vidarh@lemmy.stad.social 1 year ago
I’ve never read the books, but I did enjoy the movies, and it’s really disappointing. I have the DVDs, so I guess I could still watch those knowing it won’t signal any continued demand the way streaming them would, but still.
Mr_Smiley@lemmy.world 1 year ago
No one gets hyperbole anymore.
Clearly she does not want to spend two years in jail. She is making a stand about the importance of sex being recognised and standing up for girls and women and the preservation of safe spaces for them.
Not all trans are like this, but: telegraph.co.uk/…/paedophile-andrew-miller-jailed…
darq@kbin.social 1 year ago
Not all trans are like this...
Then why even bring it up?
We don't judge demographics by the actions of individuals. If we did, both cis men and cis women would be banned from every aspect of society.
But for trans women, it seems to be fair game to dig for crimes and then make this sort of two-faced statement where you are definitely saying that we should view trans women with suspicion, but won't come out and just be transphobic openly.
Mr_Smiley@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Because how many trans people are there compared with straight people?
And society does, very much judge outsider demographics on the worst actions of individuals.
JasSmith@sh.itjust.works 1 year ago
ITT: “fuck free speech because I don’t like what she has to say.” I guess this community is just a bunch of left wing authoritarians. Good to know!
Etterra@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Enjoy jail then I guess. It’s a pretty stupid hill to die on, especially when you’re filthy rich and the conservatives already hate you over the whole witchcraft nonsense. I cannot fathom conservative doublethink.
rockSlayer@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Deal.
rayquetzalcoatl@feddit.uk 1 year ago
what a weirdo lol
Flax_vert@feddit.uk 1 year ago
The twitter thread where they fantasise about being in prison reminds me of this meme:
n3m37h@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 year ago
I don’t blame her, all these pronouns are ridiculous. Get a fucking life or deal with the fact most people don’t care what you want to be called because we have enough of our own bullshit to deal with
enbee@links.hackliberty.org 1 year ago
Lock her up
jet@hackertalks.com 1 year ago
It’s almost like people are looking for a reason to talk about how much they hate JKR, and in turn promote her.
The Streisand effect is in full display here.
Everytime people bring out the three minute hate drum, the righteous come around and sneer, so there is a echo chamber, but there’s always somebody new, somebody who’s never been introduced to the debate before, who now pays attention to this person… And they might end up agreeing with this person.
So giving all this attention to one person over and over again, is creating them more converts than it’s costing them. It’s just promoting the personality at this point. It’d be more effective to ignore them, and just promote your own viewpoint. There wouldn’t be any controversy, there wouldn’t be free media attention…
www.nytimes.com/…/jk-rowling-transphobia.html
Because she has asserted the right to spaces for biological women only, such as domestic abuse shelters and sex-segregated prisons. Because she has insisted that when it comes to determining a person’s legal gender status, self-declared gender identity is insufficient. Because she has expressed skepticism about phrases like “people who menstruate” in reference to biological women. Because she has defended herself and, far more important, supported others, including detransitioners and feminist scholars, who have come under attack from trans activists. And because she followed on Twitter and praised some of the work of Magdalen Berns, a lesbian feminist who had made incendiary comments about transgender people.
crypticthree@lemmy.world 1 year ago
How much time is she willing to do to avoid minding her own fucking business. I’m guessing it’s a lot
mindbleach@sh.itjust.works 1 year ago
Alice Caldwell-Kelly: “What can I say besides, inshallah?”
stevedidWHAT@lemmy.world 1 year ago
That’s cool, nobodies going to give in to her persecution fetish tho lmao.
Just stop being an asshole, nobody believe your “on the premise of freedom” arguments, it’s super simple.
They’re like that kid in grade school who calls the male teacher mrs. such and such and think it’s still hilarious
Honytawk@lemmy.zip 1 year ago
Let see how she fares after a year has passed in jail.
I’m all for social experiments on those unwilling to adapt to society.
FatLegTed@feddit.uk 1 year ago
She always looks like a miserable cow. With her money you’d think she could crack a smile.
She’s too bitter and twisted though.
PS. Never did like HP, all those twee names and what have you. The only good thing that came out of it was it got a whole bunch of kids reading.
She can do one though.
Aux@lemmy.world 1 year ago
This post is occupied by misogynists. Lemmy is a new Reddit for sure.
Track_Shovel@slrpnk.net 1 year ago
I’ll just leave this here