'Doctor Who' Star Varada Sethu Fires Back at 'Woke' Critics: 'It Means We’re Doing the Right Thing'

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• rockerface@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  If they think Doctor Who has “gone” woke, they have not been watching.

  I remember Captain Jack Harkness flirting with anything that moves, regardless of gender identity or species.

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  • ohulancutash@feddit.uk ⁨3⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    They had a black astronaut in 1966.

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  • anomoly_@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    The last time I was sentenced to death, I ordered four hyper-vodkas for my breakfast. All a bit of a blur after that… I woke up in bed with both of my executioners. Lovely couple, they stayed in touch! Can’t say that about most executioners.

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  • Pronell@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    Unfortunately his behavior continued on set. Creepy dude.

    But his character wasn’t meant to be, and I need to remember that from time to time.

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    • nadiaraven@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      Oh damn, that’s unfortunate

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  • ChairmanMeow@programming.dev ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    I have to disagree a bit here, the recent writing has tried to very heavily shoe-horn it in, whereas in the past it was much more naturally present.

    I think the worst one for me (before I quit watching) was with the enormous spiders in the hotel run by a very Trumpian figure.

    “Trump” wanted to just shoot the enormous spider, but the Doctor stopped him saying “no weapons, ever”. The spider then died an agonizing death caused by suffocation on-screen mere seconds later. Her offspring was lured and locked into a storage room with food, after which they would surely either cannibalize themselves or starve. Actually shooting them would’ve been a mercy at that point.

    When presented with the Doctor’s solution versus the “Trump” solution, I felt more sympathy for “Trump”. And I fucking hate that guy. That’s when I knew the writing just wasn’t for me anymore.

    There’s a reason even the more diehard Whovians, who are very much considered “woke” are tuning out. It’s not the cast, it’s the writing.

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    • BeardedGingerWonder@feddit.uk ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      The Doctor has been pretty anti-gun for as long as I’ve been watching. Honestly I just felt the Chibnal era lost a bit of magic, less campy/extreme/wild ride feeling to it. The first new season I thought was pretty decent.

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    • rockerface@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      I have to admit I kinda stopped following the series after Capaldi left.

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    • Taleya@aussie.zone ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      Arachnids in the uk was 7 years ago, with a different cast, a different show runner, hell a different production company and channel.

      So if it was the one that made you quit watching, how can you opine on the current run?

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    • Dragonborn3810@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      So that was during Chris Chibnalls era of running the show, which is, well, shit (good video about it, its long though: www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8_A7n83Rh0 )

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  • Taleya@aussie.zone ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    I’m laughing at the “people just hate the bad plots” my bean i am a classic who fan. I have been since it was still on the air. I have seen shit that would melt their tiny minds.

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    • NigelFrobisher@aussie.zone ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      Ken Dodds on fire off the shoulder of Butlins.

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• Mrs_deWinter@feddit.org ⁨19⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  The Rogue storyline proves that New Who has a writing problem that has nothing to do with being too woke, and, in fact, at least in parts more with being not woke enough. What reason could there be to hint at, introduce, develop, carry out, end, and bury a love interest all within one single episode, if not as concession for people against those story line to be able to avoid it altogether? Disney isn’t actually progressive, they never were, and where corporate pride/POC representation is implemented it’s because the cost calculation tells them it pays off, not because they actually represent any of those values.

  The Doctor would never give up on anyone. Heck, in the next episode he cried more about some random guard post than the man who proposed to him. Until he at least attempts to get Rogue back I will have to assume the Doctor has either been replaced by some kind of doppelganger, or the writers at Disney lack the balls to actually portray a modern and gay Doctor after all.

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  • ziggurat@lemmy.world ⁨19⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    They just don’t want to take credit for making doctor who suck themselves. Doctor who has always been woke, but now it just sucks

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• Ghyste@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

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  • baduhai@sopuli.xyz ⁨18⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    That engine is woke.

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• Rakonat@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  Nobody who enjoys Dr Who for what it is, a series of morality tales and social commentary, gives a shit about if the Dr Who is woke or if the lead is man, woman or something between, let alone their ethnicity (though for sake of continuity they better have a british accent of some descriptor.)

  What long time Who fans don’t like is poorly written and executed stories, for which there has been far too many of in recent years.

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  • Taleya@aussie.zone ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    If Doctor Who isn’t woke then the showrunner’s fuckin something up

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  • cantstopthesignal@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    You can’t make something that’s a pile of shit and then hide behind oppression from right wing assholes online. If you watch interviews of the showrunner he knew it was going to be terrible before was ever published.

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• racemaniac@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨22⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  I’ve always loved the themes doctor who tries to address in its episodes, but it’s sad in the most recent seasons they seem to have lost any form of subtlety/intelligence…

  It used to be episodes showing you a moral dilemma, raising the question and often making it clear there is no perfect solution. The characters would make choice, maybe not the ones you’d make, but from understandable motivations. Sometimes the bad guys would have understandable motivations, and you’d feel sorry for them.

  Lately it has been so black & white. More like “see this guy, he represents trump, trump is bad, he is bad”. No dilemmas, no raising questions, not letting you think for yourself or challenging your beliefs. More like “this is good, this is bad, don’t think more about it please”.

  I also don’t think doctor who has become more woke, but it has become so much less intelligent, no longer considering the viewer as a person capable of reaching their own conclusions. Everything has to be clear and black and white. And if you don’t agree with the protagonists you’re bad.

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  • whereisk@lemmy.world ⁨21⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    Agreed. Not sure how much the Disney distribution deal has affected how they handle subtlety. Or just a new show runner that might just not be as good.

    I found Steven Moffat to be very good while Russel T Davis has had some excellent moments during his first run, with true existential terror surfacing in the show, lately it has become a Disney ride.

    Not sure if he lost some key contributor that gave the show an edge or they decided to try to bring a younger audience in. It doesn’t feel like it has the gravitas it had there for a while.

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• Sarmyth@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  What do we call it when the show has politics you agree with but you still think its too heavy handed and the messaging constantly feels like you’re being talked down to?

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  • kat_angstrom@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    Patronising. RTD loves to be patronising because he doesn’t understand subtlety.

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    • DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      If I lived in a monarchy I’d be patronizing to everyone around me too, they’re into that shit

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  • the_crotch@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    Star Trek Discovery

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    • ikidd@lemmy.world ⁨13⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      No effing doubt.

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    • DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      Didn’t need the Discovery part for 90% of the series tbh

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  • TheBat@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    The Boys

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  • spectre@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    this is just how RTD writes Doctor Who, but people loved it the first time for some reason.

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  • jsomae@lemmy.ml ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    bad

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  • Emmie@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    Reddit

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  • 1984@lemmy.today ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    It means you are above average intelligence. Its a burden.

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• Dagwood222@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  Back in the Tom Baker era, they routinely talked of the Prime Minister as ‘she.’

  Those shows were made long before Thatcher came to power.

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  • djsaskdja@reddthat.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    Doctor Who is responsible for Margaret Thatcher? Wow, maybe this show does suck after all.

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    • Dagwood222@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      Those shows were made long before Thatcher came to power.

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• jsomae@lemmy.ml ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  “ Sethu and Gatwa’s pairing means that two people of color will pilot the Tardis for the first time in Doctor Who’s history. “Ncuti was like, ‘Look at us. We get to be in the Tardis. We’re going to piss off so many people’,” she said.

  I know he what he means, but to be pedantic, this is not the first time a person of colour person has been in the Tardis. There have been several black companions (Mickey, Martha, Bill Potts); there have even been two people of colour as companions at the same time (Ryan and Yaz). You could even say that Martha was the first black doctor to pilot the Tardis. :P

  I’m happy to see a POC Doctor and companion though.

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  • Grostleton@lemm.ee ⁨14⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    Did any of those characters actually “pilot” the tardis? I remember incidents of them being “in” the tardis and it autopilots or is remotely sent away by the doc, but but never directly controlled by them in any meaningful way, though admittedly I’m a bit hazy on the Ryan/Yaz seasons at this point.

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• jsomae@lemmy.ml ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  This reinforces my perspective that when people complain about “woke” media they are complaining about badly written media (which parenthetically features minorities). The 2005 reboot of Doctor Who has always strongly featured minorities, but the quality has gradually declined season after season. Nobody complained about the bisexual Jack Harkness, who got his own spin-off. Different people gave up at different times – IMO it was a dumpster fire by season 4 already, but others held on through the Matt Smith era or even the Capaldi era. (Not denying there were good episodes still now and then.) Series 11 was unwatchably bad – but not because the Doctor was portrayed by a woman.

  Similarly, Star Wars: Andor, has a lot of diversity in the cast! It’s a great show, best Star Wars media since Episode V in my opinion. But it’s Star Wars: The Adept people are calling woke, since it’s trash.

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  • Taleya@aussie.zone ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    No. There’s been a rampup of bigotry.

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    • jsomae@lemmy.ml ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      That probably has contributed, but I remember people complaining about woke media by any other name 10 years ago. A lot.

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• limer@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  I don’t see people defending the newer shows by saying the writing is great or the plot tight. I just see arguments about politics and social messages.

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  • Aux@feddit.uk ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    The show turned to shit many years ago, way before any wokeness. There’s nothing to defend.

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    • Val@lemm.ee ⁨19⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      this is what doctor who does. Just like in the 80s. It has it’s ups and down, but its always changing. That’s what makes it special. The doctor regenerates, the show-runner changes and the show moves on. It’s not like the other shows that just get cancelled.It’s doctor who. It’s the longest running sci-fi show in the world.

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    • SkunkWorkz@lemmy.world ⁨19⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      The corporations are just using the culture war to deflect any criticism against the bad product they made. Like criticize the new AC or Snow White and people, especially the gauche caviar press, will call you a racist, even when you weren’t even criticizing the “wokeness”

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• Korhaka@sopuli.xyz ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  I have more criticism over Disney being involved in production than anything “woke”.

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• wampus@lemmy.ca ⁨18⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  The people who cheer for the replacement of historically caucasian roles with minority actors, are the same people who protest the replacement of historically minority roles with caucasian actors. And they wonder why there’s push back.

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  • Skavau@lemm.ee ⁨18⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    It depends on context. Doctor Who is a fictional character. Historical figures are not. It isn’t hard to understand why there are different reactions there.

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    • wampus@lemmy.ca ⁨17⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      Scarlet Johansen as the Major in Ghost in the Shell Tilda Swinton as the Ancient One in Dr Strange Controversy around characters like Iron Fist etc

      Asian fictional characters often get white washed. Results in protests from minority groups who feel they’re being denied representation in their own culture’s created artwork, and roles in movies/shows – just like how replacing caucasian fictional characters results in protests from groups who feel they’re having their cultural representation in media suppressed by minority interests. But whatever man. Guess those dont count.

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• SpiceDealer@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨18⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  I feel that the whole “Woke/DEI” era will be remembered as a poorly timed inflection point. On one hand, you had the media conglomerates, who, instead of investing in original content decided to put stock in continuations of established franchises which often had poor writing and were poorly executed. These works also just happened to have a “diversity” angel to them. At the same time, we saw the increase in right wing voices online that started to infiltrate the fandoms of those already established franchises.

  Social media algorithms also began to push this kind of content to a wider audience. How many times have you seen a random Youtube video with titles like " X is WOKE PROPAGANDA TRASH! Hollywoke is in DECLINE! " appear in your feed or homepage? If the work in question was a critical flop (i.e. terrible), it was not a flop because of creative deficiencies. No, it was a flop because it had a non-binary black character!

  You never heard legitimate criticisms like “Hollywood is putting profits before good entertainment” or “[Show or movie] had poor writing, bad acting, terrible direction and didn’t contribute anything to already established canon.”

  Take Deep Space 9 as an example. A great show with a very diverse cast but that diversity would be useless if the characters weren’t as fleshed out as they were. Now imagine what the discourse around DS9 would look like if it were made today:

  “A New BLACK Protagonist? Star Trek Has Gone WOKE!”

  “Jadzia Dax and Odo: Trans Ideology PROPAGANDA?!”

  When a new piece of media comes out and there is a massive stir attached to it, ask yourself this: is the criticism warranted or is it ideology driven?

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• BeigeAgenda@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  I just hope the new seasons has some good stories, I stopped watching after a few Capaldi episodes the stories were less interesting.

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  • nadiaraven@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    I watched the first new season. It has ups and downs, but definitely some good episodes in it. I also felt frustrated the longer Stephen Moffat had his run, and then Chris chibnall was straight up boring.

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• Emmie@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  I will still watch it for reasons…

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  • Thcdenton@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    Same. I don’t even like dr the who

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